Excitable Boy
is a metaphor
If it overcenteralizes the metagame, its Uber. Garchomp does that. Metagross doesn't.
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Garchomp, Deoxys-S and Wobb
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Garchomp>.<
Expert IV Trainer
If it overcenteralizes the metagame, its Uber. Garchomp does that. Metagross doesn't.
Hmmm does Kyogre overcenteralizes the metagame? Jolteon counters it nicely with a STAB base 120 power thunder jus beware of Hydro pump. So why not make kyogre OU. jus like Garchomp should be.
randomspot555
Well-Known Member
Hmmm does Kyogre overcenteralizes the metagame? Jolteon counters it nicely with a STAB base 120 power thunder jus beware of Hydro pump. So why not make kyogre OU. jus like Garchomp should be.
When everything that doesn't learn an Ice attack is carrying HP Ice, it's a bit of a hint that Garchomp is specifically overcentralizing the metagame.
Yes, your friend is probably not a competitive player. If your Milotic took down two Chomps (hint #1 that this wasn't a serious competitive match: species clause), then those Chomps were either horribly trained, poorly used, or most likely, both.
Garchomp>.<
Expert IV Trainer
When everything that doesn't learn an Ice attack is carrying HP Ice, it's a bit of a hint that Garchomp is specifically overcentralizing the metagame.
Yes, your friend is probably not a competitive player. If your Milotic took down two Chomps (hint #1 that this wasn't a serious competitive match: species clause), then those Chomps were either horribly trained, poorly used, or most likely, both.
HP Ice are not just for Garchomp? Now you are picking on Chomp. Most HP Ice are for dragons and pokemon that get wall easy by gound types like hippowdon. So dont say its jus for Garchomp cause its not. Mayb u said so because of the amount of Garchomps we see all the time.
He used them well enough to almost beat me because half the time i was missing with my attacks but i still won. The chomps were properly trained Att/Spd spread.
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randomspot555
Well-Known Member
HP Ice are not just for Garchomp? Now you are picking on Chomp. Most HP Ice are for dragons and pokemon that get wall easy by gound types like hippowdon. So dont say its jus for Garchomp cause its not. Mayb u said so because of the amount of Garchomps we see all the time.
He used them well enough to almost beat me because half the time i was missing with my attacks but i still won. The chomps were properly trained Att/Spd spread.
The other dragons all have other weaknesses to abuse. Salamence and Dragonite are hurt by Stealth Rock, rock attacks, and can be paralyzed by electric attacks, and are easier to burn and poison with Will-O-Wisp and Toxic. Chomp is impossible to paralyze outside of Tri Attack, resists SR and Rock attacks, and WOW and Toxic have even more horrible accuracy with Sand Veil up, along with no guarantee on revenge kills also due to the ability.
If they were properly trained, then he used them quite horribly. It's hard to imagine a scenario where someone with two physical sweeping ubers was beaten by a Pokemon with, at best, decent defenses and horrible speed.
Except that for the last time, and seriously I am getting tired of saying this, Garchomp was banned solely because of its Yache Berry set. Early DP, before that monster was unleashed, it was obvious to everyone that he was top tier OU but more of a Tyranitar or Heracross level.
Also, I beat Ubers with Shedinja, tier bump plz.
so it was the yache berry that did it eh. Shame ya can't ban berries. It wouldn't be pratical to ban one particular set on a pokemon though. Annoying for anyone who didn't use yache berry sets, but nothing can really be done at this stage
@ Garchomp>.<. its over, give it up. garchomp is uber, your complaining wont change that, escecially complaining here as serebii didn't change chomp's tier, smogon did and its only a minority of the serebii users who have any influence in smogon. If you're that determained to get chomp back into ou, go badger smogon about it. But get some better arguements cause if this is your best they'll eat you alive
TogeticTheRuler
Well-Known Member
Hmmm does Kyogre overcenteralizes the metagame? Jolteon counters it nicely with a STAB base 120 power thunder jus beware of Hydro pump. So why not make kyogre OU. jus like Garchomp should be.
How does Jolteon come into any of Kyogre's attacks, why do you assume only 1 thunder will kill Kyogre? And, if hypothetically Jolteon fulfills the role of a solid Kyogre Counter(Which is definitely does not) then everyone would be using a Jolteon, which is overcentralizing thus Kyogre is uber.
Seriously, is he a troll?
The fact that Kyogre can be OHKOed doesn't make it less threatening. Jolteon can only switch in on it's Thunder, so it's really poor 'counter'. Thunder isn't even STAB attack, so even Vaporeon is better 'counter' for it.
Are you serious? If Kyogre isn't OU, it can't overcentralize the OU metagame. Bring it to OU, and tell me something that can safely switch to it without getting 2HKOed or OHKOed from Choice specs set, and we have a counter. Max hp and max sp. def calm Blissey is most likely 2HKOed by Specsed Water spout, so it isn't a counter. Using that Blissey on every team is overcentralizing. And Kyogre would change the OU metagame in a radical way with it's Drizzle ability.Hmmm does Kyogre overcenteralizes the metagame? Jolteon counters it nicely with a STAB base 120 power thunder jus beware of Hydro pump. So why not make kyogre OU. jus like Garchomp should be.
The fact that Kyogre can be OHKOed doesn't make it less threatening. Jolteon can only switch in on it's Thunder, so it's really poor 'counter'. Thunder isn't even STAB attack, so even Vaporeon is better 'counter' for it.
They are for Garchomp in many cases. I personally removed my Hidden power ice from my ScarfTran, took off Ice beam from my Starmie and took off Counter from my Gliscor as it is the only possible way that Gliscor can beat YacheChomp after it SDs. Now that's what I call overcentralizing.HP Ice are not just for Garchomp? Now you are picking on Chomp. Most HP Ice are for dragons and pokemon that get wall easy by gound types like hippowdon. So dont say its jus for Garchomp cause its not. Mayb u said so because of the amount of Garchomps we see all the time.
He used them well enough to almost beat me because half the time i was missing with my attacks but i still won. The chomps were properly trained Att/Spd spread.
kinder surprise
Banned
The HP Ice argument. hmm ppl do not carry HP Ice to kill garchomp solely, HP Ice covers Donphan, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Breloom, Salamence, Dragonite, Tangrowth, Zapdos, Yanmega, Togekiss and probably many others i am forgetting. HP Ice will be used whether Garchomp is in the metagame or note, it simply has superior coverage to any other, HP Fire and HP ground are close but still not quite up there
Lord_Sunday
Remember me from RSE
Hmmm does Kyogre overcenteralizes the metagame? Jolteon counters it nicely with a STAB base 120 power thunder jus beware of Hydro pump. So why not make kyogre OU. jus like Garchomp should be.
Ahahahahaha! Surely you're not for real? Kyogre is the most overcentralising Pokemon in Ubers, (being 1600 uses above Rayquaza on 5200) let alone in OU!
But for example Heatran hits almost everyone of those harder with Fire blast (versus Hippowdon FB has 160 basepower, when HP Ice has only 140). Dragonite and Mence are the only reason to use it over grass or electric now, and since many Mences and Dragonites are DD versions, you can't even revenge kill them anymore with Heatran.The HP Ice argument. hmm ppl do not carry HP Ice to kill garchomp solely, HP Ice covers Donphan, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Breloom, Salamence, Dragonite, Tangrowth, Zapdos, Yanmega, Togekiss and probably many others i am forgetting. HP Ice will be used whether Garchomp is in the metagame or note, it simply has superior coverage to any other, HP Fire and HP ground are close but still not quite up there
Ahahahahaha! Surely you're not for real? Kyogre is the most overcentralising Pokemon in Ubers, (being 1600 uses above Rayquaza on 5200) let alone in OU!
Are we talking about Shoddy or D/P Competitive Battling here.
And don't tell me they are the same thing. I will instantly disregard everything you say.
Umbreon-dana
Phat Philanthropist
Shoddy is a form of competitive battling, like Wifi. So, in theory, Wifi and Shoddy are competitive battling.
But you disregarded what I said, didn't you?
But you disregarded what I said, didn't you?
Garchomp>.<
Expert IV Trainer
How does Jolteon come into any of Kyogre's attacks, why do you assume only 1 thunder will kill Kyogre? And, if hypothetically Jolteon fulfills the role of a solid Kyogre Counter(Which is definitely does not) then everyone would be using a Jolteon, which is overcentralizing thus Kyogre is uber.
This is the unfair argument Garchomp had to go true. Its not a counter anymore if you switch in on a attack of a pokemon. Plus the pokemon still needs to fight back before dying thus fainting ur pokemon in the process. Its the one turn switching in is the unfair part of this whole argument. Oh and who would switch jolteon on Kyogre are u nuts?! Even if kyogre has its specs on its easier to beat with modest jolteon than a kyogre with choice scarf. Dude one thunder kills Kyogre from STAB.
Caesar: I don't care what you say about me complaining. Like I said before I don't need to battle on shoddy. I will use my Garchomp for ever and people who battle me can do the same. They are many out there like me who don't agree with it being banned to ubers.
Garchomp>.<
Expert IV Trainer
There just cheap broken pokes.
Join the likes of stealth rock, kyogre, blissey, and mabye palkia.
Whats so cheap about them?
stealth rock is cheap because there's no type immune to rock and no safe switch in(except steel walls like Aggron or Steelix,with the latter being the better)
Takes off 50% of your HP if you're 4x weak to it,so tell me where this move is not cheap
This whole discussion is pretty much the same thing that happens everyonce in a while when ppl tries to consider Blissey as uber ;242;
Takes off 50% of your HP if you're 4x weak to it,so tell me where this move is not cheap
This whole discussion is pretty much the same thing that happens everyonce in a while when ppl tries to consider Blissey as uber ;242;
Excitable Boy
is a metaphor
This is the unfair argument Garchomp had to go true. Its not a counter anymore if you switch in on a attack of a pokemon. Plus the pokemon still needs to fight back before dying thus fainting ur pokemon in the process. Its the one turn switching in is the unfair part of this whole argument. Oh and who would switch jolteon on Kyogre are u nuts?! Even if kyogre has its specs on its easier to beat with modest jolteon than a kyogre with choice scarf. Dude one thunder kills Kyogre from STAB.
Overcenteralization. Everybody would use Jolteon to counter the massive flood of Kyogres (pardon the pun) that would inevitably come. If you like Garchomp so much, just play Ubers instead of filling this thread with "reasons" why it should be OU. Your whining will accomplish... oh, I'd say 0%.
They are many out there like me who don't agree with it being banned to ubers.
What, the angry Youtubers?
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