Gen 10 Pokédex - Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Tenkochi]

This is thought but what if they gave Volbeat and Illumise a shared prevolution and then gave both of them an evolution.

So basically the prevolution would evolve into Volbeat if it’s male, and Illumise if it’s female and then Volbeat would evolve into a Bug/Fire type monster while Illumise evolves into a Bug/Electric type mon.

Alternatively they could have Volbeat and Illumise share an evolution that has male bug/fire type form and female bug/electric type form with the form of the evolution being dependent on whether it was Volbeat or Illumise that evolved into it.

(˵ ¬ᴗ¬˵) I see what you did there~

Eh... I'm not sure if Bug/Fire works, main reason I suggested Electric in that other thread was because the duo both use Electric moves oh so uncharacteristically in comparison to say, people suggesting Luxray be Electric/Dark because it learns Bite/Crunch like everything with a jaw uses (and any other Dark moves Luxray learns are all dependent on it being based off a Big Cat) - just because Luxray's mane is black.

Although looking it up, it's not that hard of a stretch - there has been an association of Fireflies and Fire in Japan (In the Edo period). It's not like say Dragonfly which doesn't have the same meaning in Japanese to English.

 

[Acer11]

(˵ ¬ᴗ¬˵) I see what you did there~

Eh... I'm not sure if Bug/Fire works, main reason I suggested Electric in that other thread was because the duo both use Electric moves oh so uncharacteristically in comparison to say, people suggesting Luxray be Electric/Dark because it learns Bite/Crunch like everything with a jaw uses (and any other Dark moves Luxray learns are all dependent on it being based off a Big Cat) - just because Luxray's mane is black.

Although looking it up, it's not that hard of a stretch - there has been an association of Fireflies and Fire in Japan (In the Edo period). It's not like say Dragonfly which doesn't have the same meaning in Japanese to English.

Luxray having Electric/Dark would sound reasonable if it had a hypothetical Mega Evolution.

 

[Kariachi]

I arrive solely to say that I hope that we get a binturong and/or a babirusa. They're both cool animals and I think with a bit of poking you could do something interesting with them. An anhinga would also be cool, though given how similar they are to cormorants it would probably be either a region form or evolution of Cramorant if we got one.

 

[Tenkochi]

Luxray having Electric/Dark would sound reasonable if it had a hypothetical Mega Evolution.

No, it's not reasonable at all. What reason would Luxray ever need to be 'evil'

Gyarados getting Dark as the Mega worked because it tied into Gyarados' lore.

All the other type changes for all the other Megas worked because it tied to their designs, lore, etc.

Luxray turning part Dark is just another excuse of "It's fur is black so make it a Dark Type"

 

[Luthor]

No, it's not reasonable at all. What reason would Luxray ever need to be 'evil'

Gyarados getting Dark as the Mega worked because it tied into Gyarados' lore.

All the other type changes for all the other Megas worked because it tied to their designs, lore, etc.

Luxray turning part Dark is just another excuse of "It's fur is black so make it a Dark Type"

There are other reasons to make a Pokemon dark type though

"This Pokémon is nocturnal. Even in total darkness, its large eyes can spot its prey clearly!". That is a pokedex entry that belongs to Umbreon but it could also fit for Luxray if they were to imply it was also a nocturnal hunter (which sort of suits Luxray's superpowered eyes which can also see through things including presumably darknesss) that would also be a bit dark as it could then hunt from the shadows (which isn't the most honourable but effective). A mega could have amplified these traits but I don't expect any new ones in this game. While I've never felt dark suited it best I do think it is more than just the fur. Electric/Dark could make for an interesting regional form I suppose though personally I'd be tempted to make it something a bit more like Electric/Fire (which would be amusing for a Sinnoh pokemon to get a fire version now) or Electric/Fairy given that typing has only been on Pokemon like Tapu Koko (which is legendary) and Dedenne (which is a pikaclone) so giving the typing to something more usable throughout the jounery.

 

[Endless]

Dark is just one of those types that is incredibly loosely defined, sure there is a general sense of "dirty" fighting but the concept of applying such morality to the natural instinct of many Pokémon leaves a lot to be desired. Sure there are many Pokémon which are Dark because they gang up together, use deception, use ambushes, use toxins, or are needlessly violent or territorial but there are just as many Pokémon with these traits that aren't Dark as well. Dark together with Dragon and Fairy are the types I have just acceped "whatever Pokémon GF says is this type is this type" rather than trying to find out what inherently makes or does not make something said type.

 

[Acer11]

Dark is just one of those types that is incredibly loosely defined, sure there is a general sense of "dirty" fighting but the concept of applying such morality to the natural instinct of many Pokémon leaves a lot to be desired. Sure there are many Pokémon which are Dark because they gang up together, use deception, use ambushes, use toxins, or are needlessly violent or territorial but there are just as many Pokémon with these traits that aren't Dark as well. Dark together with Dragon and Fairy are the types I have just acceped "whatever Pokémon GF says is this type is this type" rather than trying to find out what inherently makes or does not make something said type.

The Japanese name for this type "Evil" is actually a mislead, since Pokemon of this type aren't actually evil.

 

[Tenkochi]

There are other reasons to make a Pokemon dark type though

"This Pokémon is nocturnal. Even in total darkness, its large eyes can spot its prey clearly!". That is a pokedex entry that belongs to Umbreon but it could also fit for Luxray if they were to imply it was also a nocturnal hunter (which sort of suits Luxray's superpowered eyes which can also see through things including presumably darknesss) that would also be a bit dark as it could then hunt from the shadows (which isn't the most honourable but effective). A mega could have amplified these traits but I don't expect any new ones in this game. While I've never felt dark suited it best I do think it is more than just the fur. Electric/Dark could make for an interesting regional form I suppose though personally I'd be tempted to make it something a bit more like Electric/Fire (which would be amusing for a Sinnoh pokemon to get a fire version now) or Electric/Fairy given that typing has only been on Pokemon like Tapu Koko (which is legendary) and Dedenne (which is a pikaclone) so giving the typing to something more usable throughout the jounery.

Yeah, but I feel like most people just boil it down to "It's Black, it should be a Dark Type!"

I mean, if we're to take all the aspects of the animals they're based on into perspective, Hippopotas and Hippowdon should be Ground/Dark because of the way Hippos behave: they actively go out of their way to murk any animal in their territory and do so with a vengeance.

Hippopotas and Hippowdon learn the same Dark-Type Moves by level up, Bite and Crunch, as the Luxray family but yet no one is arguing for their types to change.

Dark together with Dragon and Fairy are the types I have just acceped "whatever Pokémon GF says is this type is this type" rather than trying to find out what inherently makes or does not make something said type.

I'm pretty sure there's still some design logic for why anything Dark/Dragon/Fairy is one of those types, and why something isn't one of those types.

 

[Luthor]

Yeah, but I feel like most people just boil it down to "It's Black, it should be a Dark Type!"

I mean, if we're to take all the aspects of the animals they're based on into perspective, Hippopotas and Hippowdon should be Ground/Dark because of the way Hippos behave: they actively go out of their way to murk any animal in their territory and do so with a vengeance.

Hippopotas and Hippowdon learn the same Dark-Type Moves by level up, Bite and Crunch, as the Luxray family but yet no one is arguing for their types to change.

Well Hippowdon even has dex entries which give it a bit of dark nature. "It is surprisingly quick to anger" and "Short-tempered and easily moved to violence. It whips up whirlwinds of sand to crush its foes' spirits, then goes in for the attack.". It probably wouldn't have been a big shock for it to have been Ground/Dark. If they ever were to add an evolution I also wouldn't be that surprised if it were Ground/Dark. It's not a Pokemon that I'm expecting to get something here given its stats (unless it was something like a regional form) but I've been surprised before.

 

[Endless]

I'm pretty sure there's still some design logic for why anything Dark/Dragon/Fairy is one of those types, and why something isn't one of those types.

Crawdaunt are hostile, violent, and territorial, driving everything else away from the lakes they inhabit. This is the justification for their Dark type.
Red and Blue Striped Basculin are hostile, violent, and territorial, driving everything else away from the lakes they inhabit. They are not Dark despite having a free secondary type slot.

There are many more examples like these that show that Dark is one of those types that can be added or removed relatively easily. Umbreon, one of the first Dark types was designed as a Poison type initially before being changed to Dark without reworking its concept; it still sprays Poison.

I think it is important to be aware that design isn't the only reason a Pokémon is given a type. We have GF on record stating that Frillish was given Ghost despite the designer wanting it to be pure Water, as well as stating that Lugia was given Psychic when the time came to give it a type because it was the "go-to powerful type at the time" despite it obviously being much more strongly tied to Water in hindsight.

 

[Luthor]

Crawdaunt are hostile, violent, and territorial, driving everything else away from the lakes they inhabit. This is the justification for their Dark type.
Red and Blue Striped Basculin are hostile, violent, and territorial, driving everything else away from the lakes they inhabit. They are not Dark despite having a free secondary type slot.

There are many more examples like these that show that Dark is one of those types that can be added or removed relatively easily. Umbreon, one of the first Dark types was designed as a Poison type initially before being changed to Dark without reworking its concept; it still sprays Poison.

I think it is important to be aware that design isn't the only reason a Pokémon is given a type. We have GF on record stating that Frillish was given Ghost despite the designer wanting it to be pure Water, as well as stating that Lugia was given Psychic when the time came to give it a type because it was the "go-to powerful type at the time" despite it obviously being much more strongly tied to Water in hindsight.

I would also say the fact that Crawdaunt also gets dark type as its deceptive in a way given that it visually it is designed to resemble Sharpedo (who is also a dark type) in a form of mimicry it seems. Though I admit I do think Basculin should have been dark type (mainly just to make it easier for the elite 4 of its home region to have 5 Pokemon as they only have 4). I would like them to add a new evolution to basculin's other forms and one could be dark but its hard to say.

That being said I do admit that there are quite a few Pokemon whose typing is questionable.

 

[ShadowForce720]

Well Hippowdon even has dex entries which give it a bit of dark nature. "It is surprisingly quick to anger" and "Short-tempered and easily moved to violence. It whips up whirlwinds of sand to crush its foes' spirits, then goes in for the attack.". It probably wouldn't have been a big shock for it to have been Ground/Dark. If they ever were to add an evolution I also wouldn't be that surprised if it were Ground/Dark. It's not a Pokemon that I'm expecting to get something here given its stats (unless it was something like a regional form) but I've been surprised before.

Just pointing this out but interestingly enough we have case of a Pokémon with a similar Base Stat Total getting an evolution in a later generation.

That being Duraludon which had a BST of 535 which is 10 points higher then Hippowdown’s BST of 525, with Duraludon gaining an evolution in gen 9 in the form of Archaludon.


So if a Pokémon being Duraludon who has a BST higher then Hippowdon can gain a evolution in a later gen then that sets a precedent that would allow Hippowdon to gain an evolution.

 

[Tenkochi]

Crawdaunt are hostile, violent, and territorial, driving everything else away from the lakes they inhabit. This is the justification for their Dark type.
Red and Blue Striped Basculin are hostile, violent, and territorial, driving everything else away from the lakes they inhabit. They are not Dark despite having a free secondary type slot.

There are many more examples like these that show that Dark is one of those types that can be added or removed relatively easily.

Basculin were also apparently added late in development, according to Sugimori.

And their beef with everything else didn't seem to be a thing until Gen 7, it was always with each other. The Japanese name, Bassrao, also doesn't hint at it being Dark, just that the rao comes from masurao, meaning Warrior. So it's in some way a fighter, but not a fighter for sport like a Fighting type would be, but also not a dirty fighter like a Dark type would be.

I just don't see Dark as a type that can simply be slapped onto something for the sake of it - especially in the case of Luxray, where there is no reason other than "It has black fur"

 

[Endless]

Basculin were also apparently added late in development, according to Sugimori.

And their beef with everything else didn't seem to be a thing until Gen 7, it was always with each other. The Japanese name, Bassrao, also doesn't hint at it being Dark, just that the rao comes from masurao, meaning Warrior. So it's in some way a fighter, but not a fighter for sport like a Fighting type would be, but also not a dirty fighter like a Dark type would be.

I just don't see Dark as a type that can simply be slapped onto something for the sake of it - especially in the case of Luxray, where there is no reason other than "It has black fur"

I think what I am trying to point out is that what constitutes fighting "dirty" is rather flimsy, some like Crawdaunt as I used as an example are simply violent and hostile. If the problem with Basculin was that the dex entry was added later(and I assume the implication is that you don't think the entry should have been added at all) then you can take Squawkabilly as another example of a vicious, territorial, and invasive Pokémon that drive away both other flocks but also other bird Pokémon.

All in all we're getting incredibly specific here, which kind of highlights how Dark kind of struggles with clear frames for what attributes constitute Dark behaviour and what is just typeless behaviour.

 

[Luthor]

Just pointing this out but interestingly enough we have case of a Pokémon with a similar Base Stat Total getting an evolution in a later generation.

That being Duraludon which had a BST of 535 which is 10 points higher then Hippowdown’s BST of 525, with Duraludon gaining an evolution in gen 9 in the form of Archaludon.


So if a Pokémon being Duraludon who has a BST higher then Hippowdon can gain a evolution in a later gen then that sets a precedent that would allow Hippowdon to gain an evolution.

No doubt it is possible for it happen similar to duraludon. It's just not one i'm expecting to happen with Hippowdon in the same way I would with something like I might with something like Luvdisc or Delibird . Also I wonder if they might be a bit cautious of giving Hippowdon the ability to hold eviolite given it knows slack off, has sand stream and has fairly good HP and defence, even its special defence is ok. Not saying it won't happen but its lower down on my predictions.

 

[Acer11]

Basculin were also apparently added late in development, according to Sugimori.

And their beef with everything else didn't seem to be a thing until Gen 7, it was always with each other. The Japanese name, Bassrao, also doesn't hint at it being Dark, just that the rao comes from masurao, meaning Warrior. So it's in some way a fighter, but not a fighter for sport like a Fighting type would be, but also not a dirty fighter like a Dark type would be.

I just don't see Dark as a type that can simply be slapped onto something for the sake of it - especially in the case of Luxray, where there is no reason other than "It has black fur"

In Gen. 8, they added a White-Striped Basculin, which got a Water/Ghost evolution in Basculegion.

 

[Pokemonfanforlife7]

Anyone else think this region is based off the Philippines?

 

[Yveltal91057]

Anyone else think this region is based off the Philippines?

I’ve heard rumors that the new region is inspired by Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, etc), but don’t know if they’re true or not.

 

[Luthor]

One Pokemon i'd like to get a pre-evolution is Flamigo. Now the reason I'd like to see Flamigo get a pre-evolution is because of something that interestingly actually happens in real world flamingos. When they are born they are a grey/white colour and don't get the pink colouration until later. I'd could see them making it a normal or normal/Flying type and not getting the fighting type until they evolve. This could also have a fun implication that Larry caught this duller Pokemon and then it evolved to be this bright Pink creature. While Flamingos aren't exactly the creature that immediately comes to mind for this area of the world, if it is is Indonesia there is apparently a park with them in Indonesia so its not completely without reason.

 

[Tenkochi]

In Gen. 8, they added a White-Striped Basculin, which got a Water/Ghost evolution in Basculegion.

But White-Stripe didn't get the 'slapped on a Dark type' treatment people seem to wish for Luxray. Basculegion became part Ghost due to a large number of references about how certain endangered fish in Hokkaido is dubbed the 'phantom fish', how spawning salmon often deteriorate while still alive, and even its evolution method is based on goroawase - a Japanese wordplay using 294 as "nikushi" or "Hatred"

Kind of like how Raichu's Pokedex Number (prior to 1000 Pokemon) is 026, using goroawase for "otsumu" or "Brain" which is one of the reasons why Alolan Raichu is Psychic type. That and there has always been an association in Japan with sweets and increased brain activity, which makes sense why the sweet pancakes would cause it to gain increased psychic power following evolution.

I think what I am trying to point out is that what constitutes fighting "dirty" is rather flimsy, some like Crawdaunt as I used as an example are simply violent and hostile. If the problem with Basculin was that the dex entry was added later (and I assume the implication is that you don't think the entry should have been added at all) then you can take Squawkabilly as another example of a vicious, territorial, and invasive Pokémon that drive away both other flocks but also other bird Pokémon.

All in all we're getting incredibly specific here, which kind of highlights how Dark kind of struggles with clear frames for what attributes constitute Dark behaviour and what is just typeless behaviour.

@Bold: The entries for Basculin highlight how territorial they are with the other striped Basculin, and how tasty they are. It wasn't until USUM where their Pokedex entries were brought to speed to give the implication that they were so vicious and territorial that they ruined the ecosystem for everything but themselves (and the aforementioned Corphish and Crawdaunt)

It's not that I don't think the entry should've been added at all, it's that the entries didn't imply that the hostility was a factor towards everything else, that and the hostility isn't a factor in how it has its typing.

That said, what constitutes fighting dirty to justify the typing is what matters here. Everything that is Dark or part Dark has something attributed to it that makes it a Dark type. Crawdaunt's reason for example isn't that it's merely violent and hostile, it's the fact that it's always seeking to fight and when it does fight, it's often fighting dirty and flailing about.