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Gen 3 Had The Best Dragons

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Sparkbeat, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Sparkbeat

    Sparkbeat FLASH! AAAHHHAAA!

    Hey RMT'ers. Sparkbeat here with a new team that I made earlier today. Since Tornadus-T and Genesect have been banned, I decided to revamp one of my BW1 Deoxys-D Offensive teams that was pretty successful. I've also happened to include 2 of the incredible (And Superior to other Gen's Dragons) Gen 3 Dragons. Now I'm terrible at intros, so here's the Teambuilding Process:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    This is the part of the team I carried over from the original. Deoxys-d to lay down hazards, Heatran and Latios for their synergy and strength. Both can take hits for each other, and they really only worry about mamoswine, which checks them both.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After thinking about it, I decided to choose Latios's twin sister because of bulk and the CM sweeper set. Once certain pokemon (Scizor and Tyranitar) are out of the picture, sweeps are easily achieved.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I decided to use Salamence as by "backup" for Latias, since the team is made to take out steels and other dragon walling pokemon. And Scarfmence had been doing extremely well lately, so I decided to give him a try.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I decided to use Breloom because of his ability to wreck rain and sandstorm team (Including a certain Tyranitar). He also revenge kills scizor, who can bother this team.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I had decided to use Gengar in the last spot to spinblock, but it just made me more scizor and tyranitrap weak, so I decided to find a replacement.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I chose Jellicent to replace gengar because of its greater bulk, access to recover, and because it can outspeed tyranitar and takes a burned pursuit or crunch better than Gengar. I haven't had the chance to test him very much, so I'm probably most open to replacements here.

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-D @ Rocky Helmet/The Berry That Reduces Bug Weakness
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Thunder Wave

    The most feared Hazard setter of today's meta, Deoxys-D makes teams with no spinner of taunter scream. And as for any offensive team, it provides the base of the team. The extra damage can make the difference is some matches. Taunt is to shut down other rockers and spiker, and it stops set up sweeper like Dragonite from setting up in my face. Thunderwave is to hit fast threats to the team, like if they lead with Scarf Landorus-T, and turn into Gengar, they pay the price. Rocky helmet helps wear down the reborn lord of u-turn spam (now that genesect is gone) scizor, but whatever that berry is helps reduce the damage u-turn deals, which allows me to live longer. Still torn between which to use.

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind

    The star of the team, Latias is one of the top sweepers of today's meta. With more bulk than Latios, it finds more chances to set up. Its unpredictability also helps, since the way to play around this one and the LO attacker varies for some teams. I chose Substitute over HP fire, because I try to eliminate Heatran, Scizor, and Jirachi before I attempt to sweep, or use Salamence to wipe out Rachi and Tran, and sub blocks the toxic from blissey and the thunderwave from ferrothorn, which allows me to set up on ones not packing seismic toss and gyro ball, respectively. Dragon pulse as the mono attacking STAB move, CM to boost power and bulk, and Roost for recovery. EV's to provide bulk and speed.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Claw

    Another more well known sweeper in this meta, ScarfMence is the physical sweeper of this team. Since he has trouble with steel types too, once they are gone, I can choose between him and Latias to sweep with depending on remaining pokes. He can also work to wear down steels after a revenge kill thanks to the moxie boost and access to Earthquake. Outrage is there for its power in sweeping, Earthquake to his steels, Fire Blast for the spiker steels and scizor on the switch, and dragon claw to scout. EV's so he can be his fastest and hit hard.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Flame Charge

    Credit to McDanger for giving me the idea of using this set after he swept me with it...a few times. The basic idea, for those who dont know, is to get one or two speed boosts with flame charge, then sweep with fire blast and coverage moves. This guys biggest threats are Rotom-w, Starmie if it isn't worn down much, and breloom if heatran is hurt at all, so I try to make sure latias or breloom has taken care of them. Fire Blast for its power, HP ice to hit dragons, and EP for other heatrans and to hit anything that resists its other moves.

    [​IMG]
    Breloom (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Low Sweep
    - Bullet Seed

    At first, I wasn't sure how well this guy would fit into this team, but after a few battles, he passed with flying colors. His main roles is to bother Rain and Sun teams which he does so well. Low Sweep has been much more effective than SD, slowing down faster pokes allowing breloom to get an unexpected KO. Mach punch helps my scizor problem, and lets me pick off pokes weakened from hazards. Bullet Seed hits Water and Ground types, and Spore makes slower pokes cry.

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Taunt

    My replacement for Gengar. I chose him to help with my scizor problem, and he also helps with mamoswine some. Jellicent has also been one of my favorite mixed tanks for a while, and I think he may work really well with this team. Will-O-Wisp and scald cripple physical threats, recover for recovery, and taunt to stop slower toxicers and hazard setters.

    Mamoswine - If Rocks get up, and I am unable to get a roost off before he enters, then this guy becomes a major threat. My best bet is to get him or ice shard so Jellicent can come in and burn him.
    Scizor - U-turn spam can wear this team down until BP can pick them off. Jellicent should help a ton with this guy though.
    Tyranitar - Can trap my main sweeper, but now Breloom and Jelly can beat it. Sometimes cause trouble though.
    Keldeo - The Specs set gave me some trouble, but Jellicent save me from him. With some prediction he can still cause trouble.

    Thats all I have found so far for major threats.

    Keldeo for Jellicent
    Scizor for Heatran
    LO Latias for CM Latias
    Magnezone for Heatran

    So far today I peaked around 1360 on the PO ladder, and have only lost twice on the ladder. One I don't remember what happened, and the other was a misplay against a CB Kyurem-B. I hope you enjoyed the team, and here's an Importable version so you can try it out, and give a better rate. Thanks for reading!

    HTML:
    Deoxys-D @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Thunder Wave
    
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    
    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Claw
    
    Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Flame Charge
    
    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Scald
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Taunt
    
    Breloom (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Low Sweep
    - Bullet Seed
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  2. Ninja Dewott

    Ninja Dewott Ice Cold Fire

    Hey Sparkbeat!

    The team looks pretty solid and what it does do is scream "Mag2Drag", but there ain't no Mag! So yeah, I think that a Magnezone will be really beneficial for your team, since, by removing steels, it allows Salamence to spam Outrage, and means that there's nothing that will resist Latias' Dragon Pulse. A Scarf Set will also help you counter a lot of the problems you're having. It outspeeds and OHKO's Mamoswine, and most Mamos will stay in, since Scarf is fairly unexpected. It traps and OHKO's Scizor with HP Fire and can probably OHKO Keldeo with Thunderbolt too. I also imagine he'd be able to do hefty damage to Tyranitar as well, depending on the set. The only problem is, I'm not sure what to replace, I'd probably say Breloom, but the choice is up to you. Here's the set:

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
    Magnet Pull
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    So, the given EV Spread and nature allow Magnezone to outspeed Max Speed Keldeo, and obviously everything slower, which includes your other threats. 252 SAtk is to maximise damage. Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon are main STABs that you can use to hit Keldeo or Mamo/TTar respectively, among other things. Hidden Power Fire is for KOing Steels that you've trapped, though beware of Rain, since the lack of a Modest Nature does drop your power. Finally, Volt Switch can be used to gain momentum, which is always nice.

    Edit: Lol random attachment messed up forum
     

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  3. Philosophix

    Philosophix I'm so philosophical

    Hey Sparkbeat!
    Overall this is a nice team but these are just my thoughts. I would replace Thunder Wave with Seismic Toos so that Deoxys can get some neutral damage on Pokes. I would also go Timid over Modest on your Heatran because Heatran doesn't suffer from the slight drop in Sp.Atk. Because of that I would replace Flame Charge with Dragon Pulse if you are running a special set as Flame Charge won't be dealing much damage without any EV's behind it. For Breloom, I would go SD on this set over Low Sweep as after a Swords Dance, there is very little that can resist the sky high attack that Breloom has. I know it would get the Technician boost but you have that in the form of Mach Punch already so it would basically just be filler. Other than that,I'm digging this team.
    I hope this actually makes some form of sense and actually helps you.
     
  4. Sparkbeat

    Sparkbeat FLASH! AAAHHHAAA!

    Yeah, I does scream dragmag, but I really don't think it can fit. Replace breloom and I lose my only priority move. I could try him over heatran. I'll probably test him in a few spots, but the main thing about magdrag is it's predictability. It's so predictable that it makes it extremely more difficult to play, and I've tried playing it before; Its not really my style xD. Thanks for the rate ND!

    Yeah I get what your saying. Really, seismic toss is only good against stall or weakened pokemon. Thunder wave makes pokemon like gengar pay. Gengar goes for the 2HKO, I live the first shadow ball, t-wave, set up rocks, then he either ko's me or parahax lets me get up some spikes. Or I switch out and save deoxys for later. Flame charge is there because it catches teams off guard, and gets rid of heatran low speed, allowing him to sweep easier. Dragon pulse is pretty redundant with hp ice. Low sweep hits like a truck, and reduces speed, either giving me the KO with bullet seed or forcing a switch giving me the clean switch. Even after and SD, mach punch fails to OHKO some pokemon even after rocks, which take 1 mach punch, and KO in return. Thanks for the rate, glad to see some people are liking the team!
     
  5. Atrocious

    Atrocious Well-Known Member

    Just a note, Gengar will probably Sub then Disable or w/e putting you at a disadvantage, at least a smarter player would. Offensive Deoxys-D might be cool as well, you can find the set on Smogon or I'll post later if you want as I'm eating ATM. Helps combat Scizor as it doesn't really expect it and gets OHKOd I believe after SR damage.
     
  6. loco1234

    loco1234 BEEDOOBEEDOOBEEDOO

    Flame Charge isn't there for damage. It's there for the Spe boost, which fixes Heatran's one bad stat. I've found ChargeTran to be better with a Timid Nature myself, the SpA drop is hardly noticeable but the Spe helps a lot despite Flame Charge. Even after the boost I found Neutral-natured Heatran was still a bit too slow.
     
  7. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    This. However, I'm not seeing Heatran benefitting you as much as Magnezone, to trap and destroy Steels.

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Leftovers
    Timid - Magnet Pull
    36 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 220 Speed
    -Substitute
    -Charge Beam
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power (Fire)

    So we all know how it works, traps and destroys steel types like Skarmory and Ferrothorn, leaving your dragons with a clean opening to sweep. ​
     
  8. Sparkbeat

    Sparkbeat FLASH! AAAHHHAAA!

    K, I'll be doing most of the testing with suggested pokes this weekend, since I don't have much time today. I'll post here how it went sometime sunday. Thanks for the feedback, and magnezone will be tested.
     
  9. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    Roar> Sub on Latias, to phaze opposing CM'ers, and continue to sweep.
    The Berry's name is Tanga Berry (which happens to be the Dutch word for thong xD)
    On Mence, BBreak > DClaw for killing ferro and breaking the screens.
    Rock Tomb/SD > Low Sweep on Breloom
    Hope this helps :3
     
  10. Atrocious

    Atrocious Well-Known Member

    Why Rock Tomb or SD over Low Sweep? It hits pretty hard and makes some switch-in checks well not checks anymore basically. Idk if you want more of a setup sweeper-ish then I guess SD, if you want it to lure common counters out then Low Sweep. Fire Blast already roasts Ferrothorn, but I guess it could be useful to break dual screens, however D Claw doesn't leave you exposed to say steels while you're trapped, etc. This is all just my opinion so yeah.
     
  11. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    @Atrocious RTomb or SD is to gain power or coverage against flying types. SD lets you hit them harder, but still NVE, while Tomb crushes them, lowers their speed to KO with a BSeed
     
  12. Atrocious

    Atrocious Well-Known Member

    Ah I see. Forgot about Technician boost making it viable.
     
  13. McDanger

    McDanger This is my design

    Scarfed tar does a number to your team, while it cant OHKO anyone, except heatran and salamence if it comes in on stone edge, it cripples everyone besides loom, same goes for banded tar except he can OHKO everyone not named breloom, and then does alot of damage still. Landorus I is another hugh threat 2hkoing everyone so you need to watch you switch ins against him adn if hes partnered with ttar, its going to be a tough match. Another threat is agility thunderus as the only thing not OHKOed again, is latias. LO latias is 2hkoed. I would switch breloom for celebi, sp defensive spread as he checks lando and thunderus and has BP to escape pusuit. And go back to gengar as heatran does jellys scizor walling job :p
     
  14. Sparkbeat

    Sparkbeat FLASH! AAAHHHAAA!

    Tested Magnezone over heatran. All it did was make me more lati weak, and didn't do anything great in return. I'll edit this post with the other tests.
     
  15. joepotatoe

    joepotatoe Dunsparce MasterRace

    I have such a similar team it's almost scary...
    It's identical except for salamence, I use a special landorus there, since adamant techniloom has little trouble killing... well killing anything really xD
     

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