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Gen 5 Sun OU

Zekromaster826

Casual Shiny Hunter
mamoswine plus scarf stone edge:dead bug
Two words: focus sash, and fyi, you are not supposed to just post a random threat and not say how to counter it, and plus, I also have Dnite to counter mamoswine, as well as venusaur in that situation.
 
Two words: focus sash, and fyi, you are not supposed to just post a random threat and not say how to counter it, and plus, I also have Dnite to counter mamoswine, as well as venusaur in that situation.

._. Mamoswine counters Dnite most of the time.

Anyway, I would personally drop Growth for Earthquake because Heatran can wall Venusaur without it.
 

orangezilla

Who's dar man
._. Mamoswine counters Dnite most of the time.

Anyway, I would personally drop Growth for Earthquake because Heatran can wall Venusaur without it.

no i think venusaur needs growth over sleep powder, sleep powder is generally unreliable and growth helps secure alot oh KOs

in my opinion your best choices are between
-growth
-energy ball
-sludge bomb
-HP fire

and except that you wont be hitting dragons that hard and you're walled by heatran
or
-growth
-energy ball
-earthquake
-HP Ice

and not be able to take on skarmory, scizor, forretress
 
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SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
*blinks twice* *blinks again* am I JUST noticing a physical dnite with SpA investment???
 

ProjectTitan313

Fire breathing moth
Espeon is a spinner, screen support, wish support, and hazard user. I don't see a better support next to I see your point on Lum Berry and Will-o-Wisp, but why would I add roar on a choice scarf? That's kinda an oxymoron.

Derp, completely forgot scarf on Heatran. Your right, Roar wouldn't work so well in that case lol.
Espeon is quite epic, but when I replied last you were looking for a second ground immunity iirc, that's mostly why I mentioned Lati@s. Dragonite and Espeon will be fine as is. You may have some hazard issues from Gyro Ball Ferrothorn/Forretress, and TTar is quite capable of using it, but overall its solid.

As for the last few posts, Mamoswine is a pretty... effective counter to Dragonite with Icicle Spear.
Energy Ball/HP Ice/Growth/EQ sounds best for the proposed change to Venusaur, as the mentioned Steels are no match for Heatran and Ninetales. Sleep Powder+Growth sounds like a sacrifice though. I guess it depends on if you want a 75% of an easy setup/chance to cripple something or higher coverage. If you test it out and get walled a lot, the mentioned set should do the trick, otherwise try what you got :p

*blinks twice* *blinks again* am I JUST noticing a physical dnite with SpA investment???

Yup, 252 Spe/252 Sp.A/4 HP. I assumed it was just a typo.
 
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Zekromaster826

Casual Shiny Hunter
Derp, completely forgot scarf on Heatran. Your right, Roar wouldn't work so well in that case lol.
Espeon is quite epic, but when I replied last you were looking for a second ground immunity iirc, that's mostly why I mentioned Lati@s. Dragonite and Espeon will be fine as is. You may have some hazard issues from Gyro Ball Ferrothorn/Forretress, and TTar is quite capable of using it, but overall its solid.

As for the last few posts, Mamoswine is a pretty... effective counter to Dragonite with Icicle Spear.
Energy Ball/HP Ice/Growth/EQ sounds best for the proposed change to Venusaur, as the mentioned Steels are no match for Heatran and Ninetales. Sleep Powder+Growth sounds like a sacrifice though. I guess it depends on if you want a 75% of an easy setup/chance to cripple something or higher coverage. If you test it out and get walled a lot, the mentioned set should do the trick, otherwise try what you got :p



Yup, 252 Spe/252 Sp.A/4 HP. I assumed it was just a typo.
Ok, so if I do go with the set above, what would be a good Ev setup/nature for Venusaur, and yes, it was a typo.
 

Vandslaux

Well-Known Member
Use Timid on Heatran. With Modest, here's how things turn out:

Dragonite DDs
you attack
DNite kills something
You come in, DNite EQs and sweeps

Here's how it turns out with Timid:

Dragonite DDs:
you attack
DNite kills something
You come in and revenge with HP Ice

Trust me, I've used Scarf Heatran in Sun. Fire Blast is a complete wrecking ball in Sun.
 

ProjectTitan313

Fire breathing moth
Ok, so if I do go with the set above, what would be a good Ev setup/nature for Venusaur, and yes, it was a typo.

Venusaur @ Life Orb
-Energy Ball
-Growth
-Hidden Power Ice
-Earthquake
EV Spread: 4 Atk, 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed
Nature: Mild
Ability: Chlorophyll

Mild is chosen as Venusaur naturally resists Mach Punch/Aqua Jet, and helps you deal with Water/Electric moves better by not lowering Sp. Def.
A +2 LO Earthquake will OHKO 4/0 Heatran, you'd need a pretty high Atk invest and probably Lonely to OHKO without Growth. A switch into Energy Ball/HP Ice will pop the balloon.
I *think* that EQ would also 2HKO Specially Defensive Jirachi at +2. Not entirely sure.

Speed wise: you outspeed anything slower than +1 Jolly Terrakion with Sun active. 518 Speed with Sun, Scarf Jolly Terrakion is 519.

If someone feels a sprinkle of Atk is needed or I'm wrong on Speed/damage, feel free to correct me :)
 
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RDSchley

The Anti-Hero
Use a defensive Heatran, he is your only answer to Dragon attacks. You have plenty of sweepers but you need a pivot and Heatran can do it defensively
 

Zekromaster826

Casual Shiny Hunter
Venusaur @ Life Orb
-Energy Ball
-Growth
-Hidden Power Ice
-Earthquake
EV Spread: 4 Atk, 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed
Nature: Mild
Ability: Chlorophyll

Mild is chosen as Venusaur naturally resists Mach Punch/Aqua Jet, and helps you deal with Water/Electric moves better by not lowering Sp. Def.
A +2 LO Earthquake will OHKO 4/0 Heatran, you'd need a pretty high Atk invest and probably Lonely to OHKO without Growth. A switch into Energy Ball/HP Ice will pop the balloon.
I *think* that EQ would also 2HKO Specially Defensive Jirachi at +2. Not entirely sure.

Speed wise: you outspeed anything slower than +1 Jolly Terrakion with Sun active. 518 Speed with Sun, Scarf Jolly Terrakion is 519.

If someone feels a sprinkle of Atk is needed or I'm wrong on Speed/damage, feel free to correct me :)
hmm, I see. I see your logic in your choice, I'll keep it in the back of my head.


Use a defensive Heatran, he is your only answer to Dragon attacks. You have plenty of sweepers but you need a pivot and Heatran can do it defensively
I am very fond of my Scarf Heatran so I need him, this team is hyper-offensive sun team (kind of) and I have never been good with walls.

expand on your descriptions so i don't have to lock this.
got it, fixed it, better now?
 

Zekromaster826

Casual Shiny Hunter
Lets bump the thread, I still have a few doubts about some of the items/natures/moves. At least answer to one of the questions in the first thread please! Thanks.
 

floatzel98

→ s o a r i n g
Well this team has been up for over a month.

Not really to much wrong with it still. Overheat over Fire blast on Heatran could be considered. In sun it will be doing so much damage. If you use a special Venusaur, use HP Fire over Ice. Since you are going mixed, still use HP Fire over Ice since you can take out steel types along with EQ. Seed Bomb could be another alternative to energy ball. If you were to do that though, change the ev's to 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe with a lonely nature.
 

Trakyan

Member
on ninetails, im pretty sure HP dragon provides better coverage and still hits dragons SE though ice hits dragonite better. That power herb would be wasted if you used solar beam in sun though. and politoed is hardly OHKOed by solarbeam off ninetails.

Hmm.... the vena set is hard to say, mix set is OK but i would say as a general rule to have sweepers specialize because mix sweepers are either slow or frail because they need to use a nature that takes away from either speed or a defense stat. HP fire is good for scizor though that lets dragonite wall you cold, having a x4 resist to grass STAB , resisting HP fire and taking nothing from EQ. Completely ignore sleep power, you need coverage, use some strong poison STAB to hit dragons neutrally, keep HP fire since scizor is the most used poke and ferro would cause some troubles.

your volcarana is walled by a rock type, end of story. And from what im told volcarana are bulky. I wouldnt use one though, show me a team without SR and i will show you an idiot.

dragonite needs roost, maybe ditch DD if you dont want to get walled, but get roost on there, abuse that bulk, especially with multiscale. but if you choose to ignore roost you need leftovers, i wouldnt ignore roost though, most people dont. I mean at +2 dragon claw is effectively neutral on anything.

i would psyshock on espeon since only dragonite could touch blissey, use morning sun for recover since it heals 2/3 in sun.

scarftran isnt the best revenge killer in the world, maybe put extreme sped on dragonite for that purpose. Heatran could probably do better with SR(you will need this)/lava plume(burn chance)/earth power(counter oposing heatran)/roar or toxic. i disagree with the earlier suggestion of dragon pulse as dragon pulse is weak and next to useless without STAB.

terakion trashes your team too. Stone edge hits half your team super effectively while hitting the rest neutrally, espeons low defense wont stand against a neutral attack(plus the thing carries x scizor) and heatran is KOed by close combat. The only thing hit neutrally here is venasaur, i dont know what other move terrakion carries but there are 5 more teammates to kill venasaur. fix the rock weakness should be first priority, get rid of one of the three ones weak to it and add a resist, nothing on your team resists it.

this may seem a dumb suggestion given this poke is LU but try scarf typhlosion over heatran, it can easily revenge kill with 150 BP STAB eruption, which is 300 BP in sun with STAB factored in, complete coverage of weaknesses in solar beam and focus blast to kill things like heatran and that rock weakness i told you about, then you have one slot left over for more coverage. HP dragon perhaps? or maybe flame thrower for when typhlosion is lower on HP.
 

floatzel98

→ s o a r i n g
HP ice and HP Dragon hit the same thing anyway, dragon types, whilst ice can still hit more types for SE damage.

Not all Volcarona are bulky. But with morning sun as a move it probably would be better to use a physically bulky ev spread. You can always throw in HP Ground in over Morning sun. he can use Volcarona on his team though. He doesn't have a dedicate rapid spinner but he has Espeon to keep away the rocks.

Again don't use HP Dragon. Always go with HP ice since it hits the same thing as dragons and more.
 

Zekromaster826

Casual Shiny Hunter
on ninetails, im pretty sure HP dragon provides better coverage and still hits dragons SE though ice hits dragonite better. That power herb would be wasted if you used solar beam in sun though. and politoed is hardly OHKOed by solarbeam off ninetails.

Hmm.... the vena set is hard to say, mix set is OK but i would say as a general rule to have sweepers specialize because mix sweepers are either slow or frail because they need to use a nature that takes away from either speed or a defense stat. HP fire is good for scizor though that lets dragonite wall you cold, having a x4 resist to grass STAB , resisting HP fire and taking nothing from EQ. Completely ignore sleep power, you need coverage, use some strong poison STAB to hit dragons neutrally, keep HP fire since scizor is the most used poke and ferro would cause some troubles.

your volcarana is walled by a rock type, end of story. And from what im told volcarana are bulky. I wouldnt use one though, show me a team without SR and i will show you an idiot.

dragonite needs roost, maybe ditch DD if you dont want to get walled, but get roost on there, abuse that bulk, especially with multiscale. but if you choose to ignore roost you need leftovers, i wouldnt ignore roost though, most people dont. I mean at +2 dragon claw is effectively neutral on anything.

i would psyshock on espeon since only dragonite could touch blissey, use morning sun for recover since it heals 2/3 in sun.

scarftran isnt the best revenge killer in the world, maybe put extreme sped on dragonite for that purpose. Heatran could probably do better with SR(you will need this)/lava plume(burn chance)/earth power(counter oposing heatran)/roar or toxic. i disagree with the earlier suggestion of dragon pulse as dragon pulse is weak and next to useless without STAB.

terakion trashes your team too. Stone edge hits half your team super effectively while hitting the rest neutrally, espeons low defense wont stand against a neutral attack(plus the thing carries x scizor) and heatran is KOed by close combat. The only thing hit neutrally here is venasaur, i dont know what other move terrakion carries but there are 5 more teammates to kill venasaur. fix the rock weakness should be first priority, get rid of one of the three ones weak to it and add a resist, nothing on your team resists it.

this may seem a dumb suggestion given this poke is LU but try scarf typhlosion over heatran, it can easily revenge kill with 150 BP STAB eruption, which is 300 BP in sun with STAB factored in, complete coverage of weaknesses in solar beam and focus blast to kill things like heatran and that rock weakness i told you about, then you have one slot left over for more coverage. HP dragon perhaps? or maybe flame thrower for when typhlosion is lower on HP.

HP Ice > HP Dragon, Ice hits grounds, flyings, dragons twice as hard, and the only thing HP Dragon is good for is Kingdra (But when will I see that?)
Also, I don't think I need HP Fire on Venusaur because I got Earthquake for neutral coverage on grass/steel and bug/steel and also I have 4 pokemon with fire type moves, I'll be fine.
Terrakion will get damaged/killed by heatran or venusaur then the other will finish the job, which is also the reason I need scarf heatran, otherwise,
I need D dance and my attacking moves, mostly because Ddance gives me more power and speed, and the moves provides neutral coverage on just about everything.
Also, about the rocks, that is why I have Espeon.
Typhlosion would need to be DW, and then the moveset would have to be: Eruption, Flamethrower, Solarbeam, Focus Blast, right? But I'll keep him in consideration ;157;


@Ace: Thanks! And that is making me waver towards Lum.
 
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