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Gen 8 Freedom of Travel Discussion Thread (Sinnoh + Breath of the WIld Mechanics)

Discussion in 'Pokémon Generation 8 Discussion' started by shoz999, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. shoz999

    shoz999 Master of Disguise!

    After GameFreak's firm belief of innovation is to make Pokemon feel more alive and that they want to spice things up after Breath of the Wild's changes and success, it is fun to speculate what Gen 8 could be and what the Sinnoh remakes will be like.

    With the Pokerides features introduced in Sun and Moon and Breath of the Wild's camera and revolutionary way of making freedom-of-travel quite fun, Sinnoh would be a great place to travel! This is because Sinnoh is probably the second-most empty region out of any region but unlike Kanto, also has a lot of geographical features, most notably Mt. Coronet. These two main features is something Breath of the Wild actually shares a lot, which is why Sinnoh is probably the best candidate to add Breath of the Wild's freedom-of-travel mechanics to it!

    Imagine using Charizard to fly up to Mt. Coronet, all the way to the top. You look down from Mt. Coronet and you see a nearby settlement. What do you do? Fly there, walk there? Nope. You mountain surf there with one of your Pokemon using rock-climb! Orrrrrr... you glide there with your Garchomp! Orrr... you use your Drifblim or Jigglypuff to float down there like a balloon. Orrrrr... you see the Battle Zone at the edge of the horizon from Mt. Coronet and you use a Golurk or Mantine to rocket all the way to the Battle Frontier!

    [​IMG]
    An example of Gold, from Pokemon Adventure GSC, using his Mantine and Remoraids to propel together like a rocket.
     
  2. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    They probably won't start this with a remake, it's too radical a change for them to start there, so it would be a huge risk. The best opportunity for them to go for a BotW type of game would be a new generation set in a new region designed from the ground up to be freely explorable. After that then we can have the conversation on what to do about remakes.
     
  3. shoz999

    shoz999 Master of Disguise!

    I was thinking they start with the first 8th gen title and then move onto the remake and from the remake of Sinnoh, we could guess how Breath of the Wild features would work in the 8th gen.
     
  4. DSDark

    DSDark Breeder

    I've put some thought into the whole how to travel around the region similar to botw/pokeride.

    Like in LGPE any pokemon that can be rideable will be rideable, Pidgeot, Charizard, Talonflame, Flygon, big birds and bugs for flying, Snorlax, lapras, Starmie, Rhydon, big water types for surfing, Ferrothorn, lycanroc, Steelix, bulky pokemon for climbing up moutains. You get the idea.

    Each pokemon would have its own Flying/Surfing/Climbing stats. Like horses in Botw. Certain pokemon would be better then others, some would be faster, some would be able to struggle through weather.

    They could have certain areas in the map, not necessary to story, that are only accessible through using the best of each ride. These pokemon could also be ones that aren't competitive, making it so more of the pokemon in the now 900+ pokedex ,after gen 8, could be trained up and used.

    They could still be called through the pager, but you the trainer set up your pager through the eligible pokemon in your storage.
     
    Top Skuttler and Team Volt Grunt like this.
  5. KyogreThunder

    KyogreThunder Call of Fate

    I don't think the games should really have open worlds, but the regions need to be explorable and have little railroading. I'd say Hoenn (in R/S/E) and Sinnoh had the best balance of exploration and storyline.
     
    pokman likes this.
  6. DSDark

    DSDark Breeder

    I've seen a lot of these comments and why questions is why would you not want open exploration of the pokemon world and an open story?
     
  7. Sαpphire

    Sαpphire Well-Known Member

    I personally wouldn't mind an open world if it's done right, but some have made the argument that development open world can distract from writing and worldbuilding, can make the overworld feel empty, and that it can feel out of place if made for the sake of being open rather than because it works with the story and world that was already designed. I know some fans have questioned how some elements of this franchise translate to open world experiences, like the traditionally linear progression between gyms or trials and the idea that most open world games let you go anywhere at any time.

    I dont personally think these problems are much of a concern. They could adopt a system where regions of the map have certain level ranges and caps, like the early days of ESO; they could instead make NPC, Gym Leader, and wild encounter levels a function of player progression; or they could implement another strategy entirely. I also think that if there's any series that should be open world, its one that emphasizes adventure and exploration like this series does.
     
  8. KyogreThunder

    KyogreThunder Call of Fate

    Well, the Kanto and Johto games weren't that linear, but that resulted in them having storylines which were paper-thin even by Pokemon standards, something I really don't want to see again.
     
  9. DSDark

    DSDark Breeder

    I definitely think that it has to be done right.

    I like your comment that the gyms, trainers, pokemon should progress with the player.

    However as for story pokemon games have never really had a great story. RB for one wasn't that great of a story, BW however was pretty great. If they do a story like BW that serves a purpose, then great that's awesome. That story should be built to include the open world.

    Certain events could happen after certain benchmarks are made. after you receive your second badge an encounter happens in the next route and so on. This would make it so they wouldn't have to have location dependent events for everything involves the story.
     
  10. Team Volt Grunt

    Team Volt Grunt Pokémon Collector

    I think the best way to implement an open world pokemon game would be to give us a true system of quests/missions/goals and to give the player character a level that increases by completing those quests/missions/goals. Have your pokemon, wild pokemon, and opposing trainers' pokemon capped by your trainer level. For example, if your trainer level is 25, your pokemon can't level beyond 25 and all wild pokemon will be anywhere from 1-25 while opposing trainers' pokemon will be 20-30 depending on what kind of trainer they are and how many pokemon they have.

    With a system like that, we'd be able to travel anywhere on the map without fear of being extremely over or under leveled. They could make certain exclusions, of course. Legendary Pokemon could always appear at a set level and the Elite 4 and Champion could have a fixed minimum so that we can't just try to rush through the main quests and storm the Elite Four with a team of level 20 pokemon. Some trainer classes, like youngsters or school kids, could have a set max. They could also lock some places and events behind main quests, but for the most part, give us free reign.
     
  11. DSDark

    DSDark Breeder

    I don't think a cap is needed. You could have the world around the trainer progress with the trainer. This way the trainer doesn't get stuck at a level with their pokemon not gaining experience. I would just hate to be battling and have my pokemon not gain exp because I haven't moved the story along.
     
    Bolt the Cat likes this.
  12. malcolm_n

    malcolm_n Pokemon Collector

    I don't think that would be the case, though. If they do it right, they could make it so that the world levels up around you (with both minimum and max level requirements). The argument would be that weaker pokemon shy away from you (based on your lead party member).

    As for travel in general, we'll have to know the region before we get more details. I agree, though, that the pokeride system looks like a keeper for the future. An open map and maybe variability to the gym leader circuit would be awesome.
     
  13. Team Volt Grunt

    Team Volt Grunt Pokémon Collector

    The level cap is an incentive to progress with the main story and side quests. Why should you be able to sit and level grind your pokemon all the way to 100 without progressing the story? In the past, we've had badges to dictate how far you can level your pokemon without consequence. This is a similar means. I could see how it would get in the way for competitive players that just want to develop their team for competitions and don't care about the story, though. Maybe the cap on your pokemon should determine when they will disobey you instead of stopping their growth? It could be about 10-20 higher than your trainer level instead of being equal to your trainer level.
     
  14. Sαpphire

    Sαpphire Well-Known Member

    I mean, it could be as easy as letting you level as high as you want - as has been the case throughout the series - while making obedience a simple function of badge count.

    A hard-coded level cap before doing certain things or beating certain trainers is way more explicitly restrictive than the old way of limiting levels.
     
  15. shoz999

    shoz999 Master of Disguise!

    Actually. I really don't consider Johto in the same league as Kanto in terms of storytelling. While Johto doesn't have a great main story, what it does have, like Unova, a lot of great smaller adventures and lore in almost each and everyone of it's locations. That alone made Johto ten times more of an adventure than Kanto was.
     
  16. Team Volt Grunt

    Team Volt Grunt Pokémon Collector

    in that case, I wouldn't bother giving the player character a level. there is no point in restricting your opponent if you can level to 100 at will. It would make more sense to take the average of your party's levels and use that to scale all wild and trainer battles.

    But that also removes the benefit of completing missions/quests, so I guess we'll just have to receive items or pokemon for completing quests or scrap my whole idea lol
     
  17. DSDark

    DSDark Breeder

    I feel like a cap would deter progress. If your pokemon aren't progressing why should you. How instead of a cap they could just make the trainers level and teams progress along the trainer's level. If the trainer's pokemon are around level 30 at the three gym then the gym leaders pokemon will be around the same level.
     
    pokman and Bolt the Cat like this.
  18. Team Volt Grunt

    Team Volt Grunt Pokémon Collector

    There are a lot of games where the player's level caps all of their characters, and no one playing those games just stops because they can't level their characters any more. They complete whatever tasks raise their player level and go back to leveling their characters.

    If you have a trainer level, or any other type of control, that determines all of your opponents' levels but not your own, you'd be able to level grind and easily overpower any opponent throughout the whole game, like you can in the current games. The point of level scaling is to keep them challenging, but not unbeatable, no matter what order you progress through the map and story in. There is no point in scaling your opponents down if you can level your own team way beyond them. The opponents might as well all be fixed level like our current games, or like I said earlier, scrap the trainer level and just scale the opponents based on an average of our current team's levels.
     
  19. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Happy Minun

    If you scale opponents to the average of your current party that'd be so easily exploited. Just take like 2 high level pokémon and 4 level 1s, now you're 3x the level the opponent has, which means you roughly have 9x their bulk and offensive power (since both bulk and offensive power are proportional to the level squared). In practice, that means you're doing roughly 80x more damage to them (in terms of % of health bar) than they are doing to you. Even if you only use Metronome you can't really lose that. Obviously this isn't exact, there are some non-linearities in the stats and damage calculations, but they're small and don't change the overall picture. And obviously you'd only have two usable pokémon, but that doesn't matter since most in-game opponents don't really have more than that anyway and you're overpowering them to this degree.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  20. Team Volt Grunt

    Team Volt Grunt Pokémon Collector

    Yes, I started typing up ways to avoid this and decided it was too much beyond my original point lol. They'd have to factor in outliers so that you can't have 1 or 2 high level pokemon averaged out by 4 or 5 really low level pokemon.

    As you keep punching holes in my ideas, I'm starting to think Pokemon will never be able to experience level scaling unless they make major changes that some of the fan base aren't going to like. We are doomed to fixed levels and linear story.
     

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