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Gen 9 Pokedex - Discussion/Speculation Thread

Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
I’m confused how you’re doing the maths…. You only added 1….

If Rookidee is in the game, that means 3 Pokémon are confirmed (as it evolves twice)…. So it’s 176?
Let me explain so you can understand. On the first post, there are two lists. The first list shows all the Pokemon species that have been seen in gameplay, which means they have been confirmed. That's where I got that number. The second list is a list of semi-confirmed Pokemon, which includes evolutionary relatives, alternate formes, and regional variants that have not been seen in gameplay. And below that is the grand total number. Do you understand now?
 

Marzbar

Well-Known Member
Let me explain so you can understand. On the first post, there are two lists. The first list shows all the Pokemon species that have been seen in gameplay, which means they have been confirmed. That's where I got that number. The second list is a list of semi-confirmed Pokemon, which includes evolutionary relatives, alternate formes, and regional variants that have not been seen in gameplay. And below that is the grand total number. Do you understand now?
No. No I don’t. Because it’s dumb to have 2 lists. It’s either confirmed, or it’s not confirmed. Semi confirmed isn’t a thing that exists. Corviknight is confirmed by common sense and by serebii.
 

Xanhawk

Well-Known Member
No. No I don’t. Because it’s dumb to have 2 lists. It’s either confirmed, or it’s not confirmed. Semi confirmed isn’t a thing that exists. Corviknight is confirmed by common sense and by serebii.
I agree that the reasons are arbitrary, but I disagree with evolutions being confirmed as we've been shown that they could not be because of Regional Variants or even new evolutions.

Like Cindaquil in Hisui didn't confirm Johtoian Typhlosion as they made Hisuian Typhlosian. We know that evolutions can be exclusive to Region now and PLA has shown us that they can very well lock forms out of a Pokedex. With this, its also isn't safe to say that both Unovan Goodra and Hisuian Goodra are confirmed for SV only because Goomy was shown, while Unovan Goodra does prove that it is in the game, but doesn't mean Hisuian one is. Similarly seeing Kantonian Meowth doesn't mean that Alolan Persian or Perserker are available either as they can repeat PLA and lock Alolan and Galarian Meowth out of the Pokedex.

But the reverse is usually true unless for some reason GF decides that Baby Pokemon that require Incense to not be in the Pokedex for that region since they have special requirements, but like Electabuzz being shown would confirm Elekid as Elekid doesn't have special requirements, but Mime Jr doesn't necessarily meet the cut because Mr. Mime did.

Having two lists is redundant, but in this case, post PLA, it makes sense to include a List that is only confirmed by actual sightings and possible confirmation by relation. That being said, Snom should be on either based on the need to gather an item from it for TM creation. Contextual clues are still valid confirmation, we just don't know if it is Normal Snom or some new version.
This is ignoring leaks.
 

Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
No. No I don’t. Because it’s dumb to have 2 lists. It’s either confirmed, or it’s not confirmed. Semi confirmed isn’t a thing that exists. Corviknight is confirmed by common sense and by serebii.
I agree that the reasons are arbitrary, but I disagree with evolutions being confirmed as we've been shown that they could not be because of Regional Variants or even new evolutions.

Like Cindaquil in Hisui didn't confirm Johtoian Typhlosion as they made Hisuian Typhlosian. We know that evolutions can be exclusive to Region now and PLA has shown us that they can very well lock forms out of a Pokedex. With this, its also isn't safe to say that both Unovan Goodra and Hisuian Goodra are confirmed for SV only because Goomy was shown, while Unovan Goodra does prove that it is in the game, but doesn't mean Hisuian one is. Similarly seeing Kantonian Meowth doesn't mean that Alolan Persian or Perserker are available either as they can repeat PLA and lock Alolan and Galarian Meowth out of the Pokedex.

But the reverse is usually true unless for some reason GF decides that Baby Pokemon that require Incense to not be in the Pokedex for that region since they have special requirements, but like Electabuzz being shown would confirm Elekid as Elekid doesn't have special requirements, but Mime Jr doesn't necessarily meet the cut because Mr. Mime did.

Having two lists is redundant, but in this case, post PLA, it makes sense to include a List that is only confirmed by actual sightings and possible confirmation by relation. That being said, Snom should be on either based on the need to gather an item from it for TM creation. Contextual clues are still valid confirmation, we just don't know if it is Normal Snom or some new version.
This is ignoring leaks.
That's right. We didn't get all the forms of available Pokemon in Legends, which is why there needs to be two lists, in case some don't make it in alongside the advertised forms.
 

Marzbar

Well-Known Member
I agree that the reasons are arbitrary, but I disagree with evolutions being confirmed as we've been shown that they could not be because of Regional Variants or even new evolutions.

Like Cindaquil in Hisui didn't confirm Johtoian Typhlosion as they made Hisuian Typhlosian. We know that evolutions can be exclusive to Region now and PLA has shown us that they can very well lock forms out of a Pokedex. With this, its also isn't safe to say that both Unovan Goodra and Hisuian Goodra are confirmed for SV only because Goomy was shown, while Unovan Goodra does prove that it is in the game, but doesn't mean Hisuian one is. Similarly seeing Kantonian Meowth doesn't mean that Alolan Persian or Perserker are available either as they can repeat PLA and lock Alolan and Galarian Meowth out of the Pokedex.

But the reverse is usually true unless for some reason GF decides that Baby Pokemon that require Incense to not be in the Pokedex for that region since they have special requirements, but like Electabuzz being shown would confirm Elekid as Elekid doesn't have special requirements, but Mime Jr doesn't necessarily meet the cut because Mr. Mime did.

Having two lists is redundant, but in this case, post PLA, it makes sense to include a List that is only confirmed by actual sightings and possible confirmation by relation. That being said, Snom should be on either based on the need to gather an item from it for TM creation. Contextual clues are still valid confirmation, we just don't know if it is Normal Snom or some new version.
This is ignoring leaks.
I’m sorry but you’re missing the point, and believe me I appreciate your long reply. But you’re focusing on split evolutions and regional forms when it’s not necessary.

Typhlosion is Typhlosion. It doesn’t matter if it’s Johtoian or Hisiuan or Babylonian. It has the same Pokédex number.

So if Cindiquil is in the game, Typhlosion, in whatever capacity, is in the game.

As for Meowth, sure, we got Galarian Meowth and Perserker, but we also got Persian in the game. And I don’t see any reason to assume this trend wouldn’t continue.

I know it’s argumentative. My apologies. But I see no reason at all not to include evolutions of confirmed Pokémon on the Paldea Pokédex. Until we get an exception to the rule, we have to assume the same trend. We have not seen every Eeveelution in the trailers. Are you going to tell me Eevee and 7 of the evolutions are in the game, but not Leafeon?
 

Xanhawk

Well-Known Member
But I see no reason at all not to include evolutions of confirmed Pokémon on the Paldea Pokédex. Until we get an exception to the rule, we have to assume the same trend.
Because PLA is that exception.

PLA didn't allow specific forms despite sharing a Pokedex Number, proving that they can lock out entire parts to a Line for Pokemon. At the same time for Eevee, yes, they can in fact choose to not include certain evolutions if they do not want them to. They did that in LGPE. Post PLA, anything is game because the exceptions you are waiting for have already been done in a Main line title.

They can choose to not allow specific forms and they can choose to not allow evolutions in favor for a new one.

While not a GF game, BDSP also had both Form locks and Evolution locks as you cannot get the Alolan or Galarian forms of Pokemon into the game and Sylveon wasn't available for Eevee to evolve into. So this case has been done three times now for main line titles. Even if they aren't the start set for a generation, the possibility exists to exclude either.

So, unless we have some form of confirmation that they are in the game, either by seeing them in the trailers or seeing valid reasoning to support that they exist, like Snom being needed for a TM, we can't safely assume that Pokemon are there if they are evolutions or alternate forms when we only see their pre-evos or other forms. Again, if we see Rookidee, that doesn't mean that both Corvisquire and Corviknight are available as GF could make new Paldean evolutions and choose to lock Corvisquire/Corviknight out of the Pokedex in favor for the new ones. This possibility also moves forward with newer games, its not limited to just Gen 9.
Because again I am ignoring leaks, I know what they say, but for this I am ignoring them because its still true as a concept and the leaks aren't infallible. They've gotten things wrong here and there so other things can happen without the leaks saying they did.

If we see Kantonian Meowth, we can't safely assume that we'll be able to port Alolan or Galarian Meowth over to the game when HOME is available as they can lock it so only Kantonian Meowth is available, which also means Alolan Persian and Perserker aren't going to be in the game.

This may be taken as Dexit fear mongering (which is really stupid), but I'm simply being realistic. There is no safe way to make assumptions any more. We either see that they are or we are left wondering if they will be.
 

Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
I’m sorry but you’re missing the point, and believe me I appreciate your long reply. But you’re focusing on split evolutions and regional forms when it’s not necessary.

Typhlosion is Typhlosion. It doesn’t matter if it’s Johtoian or Hisiuan or Babylonian. It has the same Pokédex number.

So if Cindiquil is in the game, Typhlosion, in whatever capacity, is in the game.

As for Meowth, sure, we got Galarian Meowth and Perserker, but we also got Persian in the game. And I don’t see any reason to assume this trend wouldn’t continue.

I know it’s argumentative. My apologies. But I see no reason at all not to include evolutions of confirmed Pokémon on the Paldea Pokédex. Until we get an exception to the rule, we have to assume the same trend. We have not seen every Eeveelution in the trailers. Are you going to tell me Eevee and 7 of the evolutions are in the game, but not Leafeon?
Because PLA is that exception.

PLA didn't allow specific forms despite sharing a Pokedex Number, proving that they can lock out entire parts to a Line for Pokemon. At the same time for Eevee, yes, they can in fact choose to not include certain evolutions if they do not want them to. They did that in LGPE. Post PLA, anything is game because the exceptions you are waiting for have already been done in a Main line title.

They can choose to not allow specific forms and they can choose to not allow evolutions in favor for a new one.

While not a GF game, BDSP also had both Form locks and Evolution locks as you cannot get the Alolan or Galarian forms of Pokemon into the game and Sylveon wasn't available for Eevee to evolve into. So this case has been done three times now for main line titles. Even if they aren't the start set for a generation, the possibility exists to exclude either.

So, unless we have some form of confirmation that they are in the game, either by seeing them in the trailers or seeing valid reasoning to support that they exist, like Snom being needed for a TM, we can't safely assume that Pokemon are there if they are evolutions or alternate forms when we only see their pre-evos or other forms. Again, if we see Rookidee, that doesn't mean that both Corvisquire and Corviknight are available as GF could make new Paldean evolutions and choose to lock Corvisquire/Corviknight out of the Pokedex in favor for the new ones. This possibility also moves forward with newer games, its not limited to just Gen 9.
Because again I am ignoring leaks, I know what they say, but for this I am ignoring them because its still true as a concept and the leaks aren't infallible. They've gotten things wrong here and there so other things can happen without the leaks saying they did.

If we see Kantonian Meowth, we can't safely assume that we'll be able to port Alolan or Galarian Meowth over to the game when HOME is available as they can lock it so only Kantonian Meowth is available, which also means Alolan Persian and Perserker aren't going to be in the game.

This may be taken as Dexit fear mongering (which is really stupid), but I'm simply being realistic. There is no safe way to make assumptions any more. We either see that they are or we are left wondering if they will be.
Xanhawk is right. Following all this, it's uncertain if every form and evolutionary relative of a particular Pokemon is in, even if that Pokemon is confirmed. Times have changed Marzbar, and you better get used to it.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
I’m sorry but you’re missing the point, and believe me I appreciate your long reply. But you’re focusing on split evolutions and regional forms when it’s not necessary.

Typhlosion is Typhlosion. It doesn’t matter if it’s Johtoian or Hisiuan or Babylonian. It has the same Pokédex number.

So if Cindiquil is in the game, Typhlosion, in whatever capacity, is in the game.

As for Meowth, sure, we got Galarian Meowth and Perserker, but we also got Persian in the game. And I don’t see any reason to assume this trend wouldn’t continue.

I know it’s argumentative. My apologies. But I see no reason at all not to include evolutions of confirmed Pokémon on the Paldea Pokédex. Until we get an exception to the rule, we have to assume the same trend. We have not seen every Eeveelution in the trailers. Are you going to tell me Eevee and 7 of the evolutions are in the game, but not Leafeon?
Lmao @ Babylonian. But I agree. The only exceptions to this are games outside the traditional mainline structure in terms of the Pokédex. The most recent trailer included Johtonian and Paldean Wooper but nothing in this game implies otherwise for other forms and evolutions as of yet. I just go by the list Joe makes on the site until something in these games implies otherwise.
 

Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
I also forgot to mention, but the Numel line is in the game as well.
Yes, we have established that.
Quick question for you guys. When the leaks for Scarlet and Violet start, do you want me to post the full Dex for the game? It'll be under spoiler tags, of course.
 

Reinhardt

You! Me! Rivals! Yes?
Yes, we have established that.
Quick question for you guys. When the leaks for Scarlet and Violet start, do you want me to post the full Dex for the game? It'll be under spoiler tags, of course.
Yes, that would be much appreciated. One big factor that goes into team building for me is how soon or late certain Pokemon become available in the game, so reading the Pokedex list in advance would be a big help towards putting together my final teams.
 

vondecayle

Well-Known Member
Bellibolt is something I expect to see at discovery kids, but it is what it is I guess.
 

Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
Previews are coming up. I'm trying to see if any of them feature Pokemon we haven't seen in the game yet. I spotted Ralts, Slakoth and Azurill in Serebii's preview. And just seems all the other previews are re-using the same new footage. Either way, we are now at 180.
 
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