Gen 9 Pokemon - Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Tsukuyomi56]

Not sure if this belongs here or in the sticky Help Thread, but considering this is meant for pokemon discussion, I'll take my chances. I'm trying to decide on who to use as my Grass type Tera Raid pokemon. I've got a handful of options I'm considering:

Spoiler: Toedscruel

Toedscruel @ Big Root
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Bold
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Leech Seed
- Confuse Ray/Acupressure

Benefits:
- Access to Acupressure can help allies without buffing moves
- Can ignore status immunities via its Ability

Detriments:
- Weakest overall bulk (except SpDef)
- Middling offenses

Spoiler: Arboliva

Arboliva @ Leftovers
Ability: Seed Sower
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
- Giga Drain/Strength Sap
- Leech Seed
- Terrain Pulse
- Substitute/Pollen Puff/Helping Hand

Benefits:
- Strongest offenses by a long shot
- Near-constant Grassy Terrain helps allies' survival

Detriments:
- Doesn't play well with future Paradoxes that don't have Booster Energy
- Almost no status effect moves to speak of
- Base HP is comparatively low

Spoiler: Brute Bonnet

Brute Bonnet @ Heat Rock/Leftovers/Loaded Dice/Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
- Seed Bomb/Bullet Seed
- Spore
- Ingrain
- Sunny Day/Clear Smog

Benefits:
- High total BST
- Only viable option with decent Atk
- Reliance on Sun makes it a much more powerful option vs Water Tera types

Detriments:
- Lacking in recovery options that don't use its meh SpAtk
- Reliance on Sun hurts allied Water types and makes it less viable against base Fire types

Spoiler: Wo-Chien

Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Ingrain
- Substitute/Pollen Puff/Grassy Terrain

Benefits:
- High total BST
- Greatest number of passive recovery options

Detriments:
- No Spore (though it has other status effect options)
- Ability screws over allies that rely on Atk

I'll probably build them all anyway since I have nothing left to do in Violet except raise new pokemon and do Tera Raids anyway, but I'm still curious which of these you folks think would be most generally useful and if there's any options I've failed to consider.

For a Grass-type Pokemon for Tera Raids I was thinking of Appletun. Solid bulk (particularly if you get one with its HA Thick Fat), Apple Acid is both a good STAB and debuffing move that works through the shield and healing moves in Recover and Giga Drain. Lack of speed may be an issue but that did not stop Slowbro.

 

[Ophie]

Not sure if this belongs here or in the sticky Help Thread, but considering this is meant for pokemon discussion, I'll take my chances. I'm trying to decide on who to use as my Grass type Tera Raid pokemon. I've got a handful of options I'm considering:

Spoiler: Toedscruel

Toedscruel @ Big Root
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Bold
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Leech Seed
- Confuse Ray/Acupressure

Benefits:
- Access to Acupressure can help allies without buffing moves
- Can ignore status immunities via its Ability

Detriments:
- Weakest overall bulk (except SpDef)
- Middling offenses

Spoiler: Arboliva

Arboliva @ Leftovers
Ability: Seed Sower
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
- Giga Drain/Strength Sap
- Leech Seed
- Terrain Pulse
- Substitute/Pollen Puff/Helping Hand

Benefits:
- Strongest offenses by a long shot
- Near-constant Grassy Terrain helps allies' survival

Detriments:
- Doesn't play well with future Paradoxes that don't have Booster Energy
- Almost no status effect moves to speak of
- Base HP is comparatively low

Spoiler: Brute Bonnet

Brute Bonnet @ Heat Rock/Leftovers/Loaded Dice/Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
- Seed Bomb/Bullet Seed
- Spore
- Ingrain
- Sunny Day/Clear Smog

Benefits:
- High total BST
- Only viable option with decent Atk
- Reliance on Sun makes it a much more powerful option vs Water Tera types

Detriments:
- Lacking in recovery options that don't use its meh SpAtk
- Reliance on Sun hurts allied Water types and makes it less viable against base Fire types

Spoiler: Wo-Chien

Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Ingrain
- Substitute/Pollen Puff/Grassy Terrain

Benefits:
- High total BST
- Greatest number of passive recovery options

Detriments:
- No Spore (though it has other status effect options)
- Ability screws over allies that rely on Atk

I'll probably build them all anyway since I have nothing left to do in Violet except raise new pokemon and do Tera Raids anyway, but I'm still curious which of these you folks think would be most generally useful and if there's any options I've failed to consider.

One of the Pokémon I'm currently using is Brute Bonnet. He's got Spore, Seed Bomb, Crunch, and Pollen Puff. I forget what his Effort Point scheme is, but Pollen Puff has proven invaluable to healing teammates, especially those who unexpectedly find themselves on the receiving end of super-effective attacks. Protosynthesis activating isn't necessary, especially if the sunlight is set via someone else's Pokémon with Drought or Orichalcum Pulse, because the raids are going to last longer than the sunlight (even with a Heat Rock), and the boost will go away once it does. Mine has Leftovers to hold on for as long as possible before I need the healing cheers.

Do NOT use any of the Ruinous Legends. You don't know if your opponents will need the stats that they drop just by being around. With the case of Wo-Chien and Attack, your teammates are likely to bring in Azumarill or Iron Hands regardless of the raid's Pokémon or Tera type, and they'll need all the boosted Attack from Belly Drum that they can get. I have not won a 5- or 6-star Tera Raid Battle with someone bringing in a Ruinous Legend. (I have been fortunate to have never seen someone try it wth a 7-star one.)

 

[Onyx Tanuki]

Thank you for the advice. Wo-Chien is out, Appletun is in. I'll probably also nix Leech Seed and replace with boosting moves on the pokemon that get it; while that cuts into their self-healing, it also means not damaging the raid pokemon any further than necessary and delaying its shield getting triggered.

I'm also working on a Baxcalibur as my offensive Ice-type raider. Current set is Icicle Spear, Breaking Swipe, Snowscape, and Swords Dance, but I'm considering swapping Icicle Spear out for either Icicle Crash or Avalanche, but I'm not sure which of the three attacks would be best. Icicle Spear is average about 96 BP, but the damage is highly variable and it eats up my item by relying on Loaded Dice. Icicle Crash is the weakest overall and has lower accuracy, but has flinch in the event I'm able to hit the raid boss before it acts. Avalanche could be the overall strongest as long as I'm getting hit every turn, but if not, it's the weakest (not counting Icicle Spear hitting twice or Icicle Crash missing).

I'm also a bit torn on ability. Thermal Exchange means an opponent with Fire attacks could accidentally boost me, or an ally with Fire moves could do so on purpose. It also prevents Burn, which is helpful since Baxcalibur relies on its physical attacks. Ice Body, on the other hand, could take a bit of pressure off of allies with a support build and keep them from having to hit me with a Heal Pulse/Pollen Puff/Life Dew/healing cheer to keep me alive so long as I'm doing my part by keeping Snow up.

If it helps to know, it's Adamant and fully invested in HP and Attack.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I’ve seen people online and on YouTube criticize Wugtrio’s name but I looked up wug to see if it was an actual word and it is and the meaning of it makes the name actually ingenious. Wug means worm like and Wiglett and Wugtrio fit that description perfectly and there are three heads on Wugtrio just like Dugtrio. So it really isn’t as stupid as a name like everyone thinks unlike Lickilicky (aka Ickyicky).

 

[Ophie]

Thank you for the advice. Wo-Chien is out, Appletun is in. I'll probably also nix Leech Seed and replace with boosting moves on the pokemon that get it; while that cuts into their self-healing, it also means not damaging the raid pokemon any further than necessary and delaying its shield getting triggered.

I'm also working on a Baxcalibur as my offensive Ice-type raider. Current set is Icicle Spear, Breaking Swipe, Snowscape, and Swords Dance, but I'm considering swapping Icicle Spear out for either Icicle Crash or Avalanche, but I'm not sure which of the three attacks would be best. Icicle Spear is average about 96 BP, but the damage is highly variable and it eats up my item by relying on Loaded Dice. Icicle Crash is the weakest overall and has lower accuracy, but has flinch in the event I'm able to hit the raid boss before it acts. Avalanche could be the overall strongest as long as I'm getting hit every turn, but if not, it's the weakest (not counting Icicle Spear hitting twice or Icicle Crash missing).

I'm also a bit torn on ability. Thermal Exchange means an opponent with Fire attacks could accidentally boost me, or an ally with Fire moves could do so on purpose. It also prevents Burn, which is helpful since Baxcalibur relies on its physical attacks. Ice Body, on the other hand, could take a bit of pressure off of allies with a support build and keep them from having to hit me with a Heal Pulse/Pollen Puff/Life Dew/healing cheer to keep me alive so long as I'm doing my part by keeping Snow up.

If it helps to know, it's Adamant and fully invested in HP and Attack.

I don't recommend Baxcalibur because, as strong as it is in a regular battle, it can't hold up under the many, many turns a Tera Raid Battle will take, especially 5 stars or higher. It's very likely the raid's Pokémon will have something able to hit it for super-effective damage, and at that point, Baxcalibur becomes a burden to the rest of the team as it faints and the team takes the time penalty for it. In addition, unless other people bring in Ice-type Pokémon of their own (which is very unlikely), Snowscape will only benefit Baxcalibur. The AI is also smart in the higher difficulty Tera Raid Battles; they will not willingly throw an attack at your Pokémon that will benefit it instead.

You don't need an Ice-type Pokémon for Tera Raid Battles, honestly. Whatever the Ice-type can do, some other Pokémon can also do it. Due to the length of these raids, you should think about whether or not to use a Pokémon from its resistances and immunities more so than its weaknesses or super-effectiveness of its attacks, or at least one that can take hits well. This is why you see slow, bulky Pokémon most often, like Slowbro, Umbreon, Clodsire, and Iron Hands.

Overall, unless you're coordinating with friends (in which case you should consult them for what they plan to do), you're best off raising a Pokémon that can complement common trends and play styles as best you can. My example with Brute Bonnet, for instance, is designed with the fact that most people never use the healing cheer, so I use Pollen Puff on anyone who needs healing.

 

[Onyx Tanuki]

Fair enough. I can save Bax for in-game raids then; that way if her typing does hold her back, it won't affect other players and becomes solely my problem. As for other options I'm exploring... I'd like to think Skeledirge would be useful thanks to Torch Song boosting his SpAtt each time it's used, but I also worry about Unaware, since I'm not sure if it ignores just boosts to the target's stats or if that applies to debuffs as well. I would like to make an Aurora Veil support Abomasnow since it's the only pokemon with Snow Warning this gen, but its typing is incredibly trash defensively, so I'd need to get it Terastalized quickly to change it to a type that's better defensively, like Steel, Poison, Water, or Fire (ironic that several of the best defensive mono-types are weak to Ground >_>). I do have one other candidate in training that I feel would be useful, though:

Bellibolt @ Terrain Extender/Big Root/Leftovers
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Electric
Nature: Modest/Quiet
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
- Parabolic Charge
- Charge Beam
- Acid Spray
- Electric Terrain/Thunder Wave/Eerie Impulse

Personally I prefer Electric Terrain, since it boost Bellibolt's damage, activates future Paradoxes, and protects allies from Yawn, Spore, etc., with the downside that the opponent can't be put to Sleep either unless it's Flying or has Levitate. Another alternative could be giving it Slack Off for healing and replacing Parabolic Charge with Thunderbolt (or Thunder if you're coordinating with someone who can provide Rain support or if you have it hold a Zoom Lens). Zoom Lens/Zap Cannon has some potential, but its miss chance is too high for me even with the item's boost.

 

[Ophie]

Fair enough. I can save Bax for in-game raids then; that way if her typing does hold her back, it won't affect other players and becomes solely my problem. As for other options I'm exploring... I'd like to think Skeledirge would be useful thanks to Torch Song boosting his SpAtt each time it's used, but I also worry about Unaware, since I'm not sure if it ignores just boosts to the target's stats or if that applies to debuffs as well. I would like to make an Aurora Veil support Abomasnow since it's the only pokemon with Snow Warning this gen, but its typing is incredibly trash defensively, so I'd need to get it Terastalized quickly to change it to a type that's better defensively, like Steel, Poison, Water, or Fire (ironic that several of the best defensive mono-types are weak to Ground >_>). I do have one other candidate in training that I feel would be useful, though:

Bellibolt @ Terrain Extender/Big Root/Leftovers
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Electric
Nature: Modest/Quiet
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
- Parabolic Charge
- Charge Beam
- Acid Spray
- Electric Terrain/Thunder Wave/Eerie Impulse

Personally I prefer Electric Terrain, since it boost Bellibolt's damage, activates future Paradoxes, and protects allies from Yawn, Spore, etc., with the downside that the opponent can't be put to Sleep either unless it's Flying or has Levitate. Another alternative could be giving it Slack Off for healing and replacing Parabolic Charge with Thunderbolt (or Thunder if you're coordinating with someone who can provide Rain support or if you have it hold a Zoom Lens). Zoom Lens/Zap Cannon has some potential, but its miss chance is too high for me even with the item's boost.

Skeledirge DOES work for some Tera Raid Battles; I have seen it put to good use, far more so than I've seen Meowscarada and Quaquaval (probably because Skeledirge has better bulk). Torch Song combines with Throat Spray to become an accelerating mass of damage that can overwhelm even some 5- and 6-star raid Pokémon, though it is vulnerable to when the raid Pokémon resets their stat boosts, especially since they won't be getting that Throat Spray back until the raid ends. Unaware ignores all defense boosts on the opponent when attacking and all attack boosts when getting attacked. It does apply to stat drops as well, but your Sp. Attack boosts using Torch Song will still apply.

You are only allowed to Terastallize once you have landed 3 or more attacks. Abomasnow may get knocked out by then, or be so close to getting knocked out that Terastallization becomes impractical. That being said, I could see Abomasnow working against some physical hitters, especially if you can find a way to heal in the meantime and it happens to be a Pokémon whose natural types Abomasnow happens to be strong against, like Ground or Water.

I have seen Bellibolt, and it works great in Tera Raid Battles, albeit I don't see Bellibolt that often and it is pretty reliant on Electric-type attacks. Since it doesn't come up that often, I can't really say how well Bellibolt works, other than I more often see Bellibolt falter due to poor usage rather than it being an unsuitable Pokémon for raids.

All in all though, there is no substitute for experience. Rather than sit and ponder what to do for a raid, you should raise something, no matter how crazy the idea, and go out there and try some yourself. These things are complex and varied, and no one Pokémon can be a good answer to them all. I myself have over two dozen Pokémon I use for Tera Raid Battles, and that number is still increasing. What works wonderfully for one will work poorly for another. Once you clear at least one raid of 5 stars or higher, it will get easier, and you'll understand them much better.

 

[Onyx Tanuki]

Skeledirge DOES work for some Tera Raid Battles; I have seen it put to good use, far more so than I've seen Meowscarada and Quaquaval (probably because Skeledirge has better bulk). Torch Song combines with Throat Spray to become an accelerating mass of damage that can overwhelm even some 5- and 6-star raid Pokémon, though it is vulnerable to when the raid Pokémon resets their stat boosts, especially since they won't be getting that Throat Spray back until the raid ends. Unaware ignores all defense boosts on the opponent when attacking and all attack boosts when getting attacked. It does apply to stat drops as well, but your Sp. Attack boosts using Torch Song will still apply.

You are only allowed to Terastallize once you have landed 3 or more attacks. Abomasnow may get knocked out by then, or be so close to getting knocked out that Terastallization becomes impractical. That being said, I could see Abomasnow working against some physical hitters, especially if you can find a way to heal in the meantime and it happens to be a Pokémon whose natural types Abomasnow happens to be strong against, like Ground or Water.

I have seen Bellibolt, and it works great in Tera Raid Battles, albeit I don't see Bellibolt that often and it is pretty reliant on Electric-type attacks. Since it doesn't come up that often, I can't really say how well Bellibolt works, other than I more often see Bellibolt falter due to poor usage rather than it being an unsuitable Pokémon for raids.

All in all though, there is no substitute for experience. Rather than sit and ponder what to do for a raid, you should raise something, no matter how crazy the idea, and go out there and try some yourself. These things are complex and varied, and no one Pokémon can be a good answer to them all. I myself have over two dozen Pokémon I use for Tera Raid Battles, and that number is still increasing. What works wonderfully for one will work poorly for another. Once you clear at least one raid of 5 stars or higher, it will get easier, and you'll understand them much better.

Agreed on all fronts. I was actually digging through physical Ground types to use until Ursaluna becomes available (either through HOME compatibility or DLC) and really struggling to figure out a potential set for Mudsdale or Hippowdon, and I think somewhere in the middle of that I realized more or less what you just said; I'm probably overthinking things by a lot. I can develop boxes worth of raid mons, but I'm getting zero tangible benefit until I actually start doing raids and seeing for myself what works and what doesn't. To put a less fine point on it, I need to either crap or get off the pot.

 

[Victreebong]

For the Grass-type to use in Raid Battles, I recommend Tsareena the most. Sweet Veil and Queenly Majesty both have their places, especially on a sleep happy computer. She can heal herself, has the Screens, boosts speed while attacking, lowers the opponent’s attack with Trop Kick, has a high power attack in Power Whip, she can keep Grassy Terrain going, and use Acupressure (Swagger can be used on Zoe’s Mudsdale in-game, but is a waste in multi). Her coverage is superb, but you typically use STAB most often in raids. Even in multi Raids, she has solid support options that you’ve highlighted. Unfortunately, she does not have Pollen Puff, Safeguard’s currently not a TM, and Aromatherapy has been removed, but she’s still a solid Green Mage. Her defenses are high and she’s the physical counterpart to Arboliva.