Gen 9 Pokemon - Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Tsukuyomi56]

Because it's based on convergent evolution, aka two completely different species evolving to have similar traits.

Regional forms are divergent evolutions, or the same species evolving to have different traits.

I get what they are trying to do but maybe Diglett isn’t exactly the best Pokémon to try to convey it as Wiglett’s design feels a bit uninspired (or is it Pokemon isn’t well suited for convergent evolution designs). Hopefully they do something interesting for its evolution and it is not just copying Dugtrio.

 

[Smeargle-Sketch]

Liking the textures in this game.

Bonsly and Sudowoodo now being even more visibly living rocks.

 

[IcySealeo]

So… are we pretending that the 256 new Pokémon we’ve had since the end of Gen 5 don’t exist, or…

I don’t see the problem with any of these.

That's the point. That's 85 Pokemon for each generation in average. It's so little compare to Gen V and before.

I don't expect them to make 120+ Pokemon each generation, but instead of recreating 55 Pokemon with "regional form", they could make some brand new Pokemon. Why won't make a regular, long-waited evolutions for Farfetch'd and Corsola, instead of doing something that may be "cool" in the short-term but much more complicated in the long-term such as regional forms?

It seems that when it comes to gimmicks, they tend to only think about the short-term effect. When they made an Alolan Rattata - I bet they didn't think how are they going to handle it in future generation, and sure enough, Alolan Rattata is not obtainable in the current generation.

Now think of Galarian Zigzagoon - they will HAVE to make sure it will be obtainable in each generation since that's the only way to obatin Obstagoon. You take out G. Zigzagoon, you take out a completely new Pokemon.

 

[Smeargle-Sketch]

That's the point. That's 85 Pokemon for each generation in average. It's so little compare to Gen V and before.

I don't expect them to make 120+ Pokemon each generation, but instead of recreating 55 Pokemon with "regional form", they could make some brand new Pokemon. Why won't make a regular, long-waited evolutions for Farfetch'd and Corsola, instead of doing something that may be "cool" in the short-term but much more complicated in the long-term such as regional forms?

It seems that when it comes to gimmicks, they tend to only think about the short-term effect. When they made an Alolan Rattata - I bet they didn't think how are they going to handle it in future generation, and sure enough, Alolan Rattata is not obtainable in the current generation.

Now think of Galarian Zigzagoon - they will HAVE to make sure it will be obtainable in each generation since that's the only way to obatin Obstagoon. You take out G. Zigzagoon, you take out a completely new Pokemon.

Honestly, if they have a similar concept and design, why just make a new Pokemon that people will say its a copy and paste and unoriginal and instead bring new life to older Pokemon?

Gen 5 was hated for that. "Bouffalant? Why not just use Tauros??" "Alomomola is just a large Luvdisc!!" "Throh and Sawk are the poor man's Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan"


Also regional forms are only not included if the original Pokemon is not in the dex. BDSP being a remake didn't cater to regional forms on release.
Most regional forms are able to be transferred in or acquired in game. Your issue I believe is just dexit overall.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

I've never been a big fan of Diglett's design, so I don't have particularly strong feelings toward Wiglett itself. I can say it fulfills the role of a convergent creature well enough at least.

On the other hand, and forgive this tangent, its lore does repeat a Pokemon trope that I've disliked ever since gen 1. Namely the idea that somehow, no human in the pokemon world knows what the rest of its body looks like. Be it Diglett, Tangela or Cubone, this idea makes no more sense now than it did in gen one. These are creatures that humans have lived alongside, battled and studied for centuries, and we're supposed to believe in all that time that no curious person has taken advantage of a sleeping one (by pulling it out of its burrow for instance), had the hidden body parts exposed during a battle, or seen one that died of old age and examined the body?

 

[ShadowForce720]

I've never been a big fan of Diglett's design, so I don't have particularly strong feelings toward Wiglett itself. I can say it fulfills the role of a convergent creature well enough at least.

On the other hand, and forgive this tangent, its lore does repeat a Pokemon trope that I've disliked ever since gen 1. Namely the idea that somehow, no human in the pokemon world knows what the rest of its body looks like. Be it Diglett, Tangela or Cubone, this idea makes no more sense now than it did in gen one. These are creatures that humans have lived alongside, battled and studied for centuries, and we're supposed to believe in all that time that no curious person has taken advantage of a sleeping one (by pulling it out of its burrow for instance), had the hidden body parts exposed during a battle, or seen one that died of old age and examined the body?

Maybe it’s the same situation that is the case with Mimikyu where all the people that saw the Pokémon’s true form died and that is why no one knows what it actually looks like. lol XD

 

[Smeargle-Sketch]

That and people are just really content with not knowing more and respect Pokemon too much to pry.

I could see it as local superstition and a disrespectful act to remove the skull from a Cubone.

I could see that Tangela just no matter how much people try to untangle it, it retangles itself faster than they can keep up.

And as for diglett...

If they do indeed have two little feet like PMD implies, then perhaps when they are removed, their claws cling to as much earth as they can to remain obscured.

In my heart though this is what I see and believe.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

That and people are just really content with not knowing more and respect Pokemon too much to pry.

Given all the parts of pokemon that have been dissected and examined in detail I find that hard to believe (that Dragonite skeleton in gen 5, the various pokedex entries that talk about the composition of the blood, organs or muscles of certain pokemon, and so on). Plus when it comes to dead ones, skeletons, etc. people would come upon them sometimes even if they weren't looking.

Basically I would prefer that we simply weren't told what these parts look like (if they have to be kept unknown) rather than being told that the people in the pokemon world don't know either.

At least with Wigglet, it being an eel means we have a good idea of what the rest of it looks like. There's only so many ways the back half of an eel can look after all.

 

[keithpetrosky]

I don’t like the lore of Wiglett.

For one, it’s called a garden eel Pokémon but it looks more like a sandworm or tube worm Pokémon. Garden eels have gills, tiny side fins, and a long back fin and tail and teeth in a jaw. I’ve yet to see any of those on Wiglett. I think they made a big mistake with its description.

Idk why they make it look like diglett if it’s not related that just seems dumb. Make it look like an eel.

Lastly, I hope to god it’s evolution won’t be Wigtrio, a tangled up 3 headed worm. ‍

If they want to go convergent species, make coral snake/Scarlett king snake Pokémon two different species with same trait

 

[IcySealeo]

Honestly, if they have a similar concept and design, why just make a new Pokemon that people will say its a copy and paste and unoriginal and instead bring new life to older Pokemon?

Gen 5 was hated for that. "Bouffalant? Why not just use Tauros??" "Alomomola is just a large Luvdisc!!" "Throh and Sawk are the poor man's Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan"


Also regional forms are only not included if the original Pokemon is not in the dex. BDSP being a remake didn't cater to regional forms on release.
Most regional forms are able to be transferred in or acquired in game. Your issue I believe is just dexit overall.

It's not about dexit, it's about long-term thinking and efficiency. Gen 5 wasn't hated for that reason. People, like me, thought that Alomomola IS the evolution of Luvdisc, and, like Bouffalant (as an evo. for Tauros) and Maractus (as an evo. for Cacnea), they just wasted those Pokemon.

Up until gen. 5, people were expecting for new evolutions of older Pokemon, and with each new generation that was announced, people had their wishlist for which Pokemon they want to have an evolution. Ever since gen. 5, there are barely such Pokemon - 0 in gen. 5, 1 in gen. 6 (and only because of the introduction of fairy type), 0 in gen 7 and finally, when they made such new evolutions in gen. 8 they had to be "unique" and be a regional form evolution. Why is that for?

It seems they don't think "normal" evolutions are exciting, so they have to come with some new gimmick each generation - ME, regional form, Dynamax... and those are all one-gen gimmick, instead of normal evolutions that will last forever.

When they come back to redesign older Pokemon, and at the same time there are less new Pokemon, it gives the feeling that they don't have new ideas so let's just make Diglett a bit different and there we have it - a new Pokemon. Back then they used to tag those redesigns under special forms such as ME or regional form - but now they are going all the way and calling it a new Pokemon, although everyone knows - and they admit it - that it's some older Pokemon in disguise.

 

[Smeargle-Sketch]

It's not about dexit, it's about long-term thinking and efficiency. Gen 5 wasn't hated for that reason. People, like me, thought that Alomomola IS the evolution of Luvdisc, and, like Bouffalant (as an evo. for Tauros) and Maractus (as an evo. for Cacnea), they just wasted those Pokemon.

Up until gen. 5, people were expecting for new evolutions of older Pokemon, and with each new generation that was announced, people had their wishlist for which Pokemon they want to have an evolution. Ever since gen. 5, there are barely such Pokemon - 0 in gen. 5, 1 in gen. 6 (and only because of the introduction of fairy type), 0 in gen 7 and finally, when they made such new evolutions in gen. 8 they had to be "unique" and be a regional form evolution. Why is that for?

It seems they don't think "normal" evolutions are exciting, so they have to come with some new gimmick each generation - ME, regional form, Dynamax... and those are all one-gen gimmick, instead of normal evolutions that will last forever.

When they come back to redesign older Pokemon, and at the same time there are less new Pokemon, it gives the feeling that they don't have new ideas so let's just make Diglett a bit different and there we have it - a new Pokemon. Back then they used to tag those redesigns under special forms such as ME or regional form - but now they are going all the way and calling it a new Pokemon, although everyone knows - and they admit it - that it's some older Pokemon in disguise.

I dunno man, to me it just gives more diversity.

Mega Evolution: Although broken, gave the chance for people to use their favourites that might not be as strong be more viable as well as make stronger favourites even more stronger. Its fanservice ya, and broken, but it did the trick for making fans get excited about it.

They also added a lot to the lore and history of Kalos.


Regional Forms and Evolutions: You like Marowak or older Pokemon and not newer ones? Guess what, now you can have more of the same favorites but with different typings, abilities and movepools to make up a bigger team now. Don't like Sandslash, but what if it was Ice/Steel and looked like this? Now you like a Pokemon you never liked before. Regional Forms give options to fans, reworking older designs and expanding upon them, given them new life. You'll see many people say they don't like Meowth, but love Alolan Meowth or Galarian Meowth more. Also Regional Forms just add more to the environmental lore of regions and conceptually often tie older Pokemon closer to looking like they belong in newer regions. With Regional Evolutions, we get to see how because of the environment or differences make these Pokemon evolve further. Its not GameFreak giving up on older Pokemon who need evolutions, but making the decision that older ones that don't evolve just can't without these divergent evolutionary stepping stones. Like Corsola most definitely could not evolve into Cursola.

Plus Ursaluna, Wyrdeer, Kleavor and more to come have shown GameFreak have not given up on cross-gen evolutions.

Gigantamax Forms: Honestly just made secial visual spectacles out of some Pokemon to make them cooler, not a bad thing when trying to sell a gimmick.

Now with Wiglett, we get confirmation convergent evolution is a thing, a burrowing garden eel as evolved the same way to have similar traits as Diglett. That's pretty fun and Diglett fans get a whole new similar Pokemon to love. Again though, some people who don't like Diglett, now love Wiglett.

Like I said, adds diversity and options.


Also, people most definitely shitted on gen 5 Pokemon for just being the same animals or similar appearance to past Pokemon. People who saying the entire dex was just a worst version of gen 1. When gen 5 has some of the best designed dexes out there.


Also since forms seem to be no-no for you. Would like to know the total and what they are for this gen? Soften the blow or warm you up to the idea prior? I'll PM if interested.

 

[IcySealeo]

I dunno man, to me it just gives more diversity.

Mega Evolution: Although broken, gave the chance for people to use their favourites that might not be as strong be more viable as well as make stronger favourites even more stronger. Its fanservice ya, and broken, but it did the trick for making fans get excited about it.

They also added a lot to the lore and history of Kalos.


Regional Forms and Evolutions: You like Marowak or older Pokemon and not newer ones? Guess what, now you can have more of the same favorites but with different typings, abilities and movepools to make up a bigger team now. Don't like Sandslash, but what if it was Ice/Steel and looked like this? Now you like a Pokemon you never liked before. Regional Forms give options to fans, reworking older designs and expanding upon them, given them new life. You'll see many people say they don't like Meowth, but love Alolan Meowth or Galarian Meowth more. Also Regional Forms just add more to the environmental lore of regions and conceptually often tie older Pokemon closer to looking like they belong in newer regions. With Regional Evolutions, we get to see how because of the environment or differences make these Pokemon evolve further. Its not GameFreak giving up on older Pokemon who need evolutions, but making the decision that older ones that don't evolve just can't without these divergent evolutionary stepping stones. Like Corsola most definitely could not evolve into Cursola.

Plus Ursaluna, Wyrdeer, Kleavor and more to come have shown GameFreak have not given up on cross-gen evolutions.

Gigantamax Forms: Honestly just made secial visual spectacles out of some Pokemon to make them cooler, not a bad thing when trying to sell a gimmick.

Now with Wiglett, we get confirmation convergent evolution is a thing, a burrowing garden eel as evolved the same way to have similar traits as Diglett. That's pretty fun and Diglett fans get a whole new similar Pokemon to love. Again though, some people who don't like Diglett, now love Wiglett.

Like I said, adds diversity and options.


Also, people most definitely shitted on gen 5 Pokemon for just being the same animals or similar appearance to past Pokemon. People who saying the entire dex was just a worst version of gen 1. When gen 5 has some of the best designed dexes out there.


Also since forms seem to be no-no for you. Would like to know the total and what they are for this gen? Soften the blow or warm you up to the idea prior? I'll PM if interested.

How making the same Pokemon with different forms is considered more diversity than brand new (and not a copycat) Pokemon?

As for ME - do you remember which Pokemon got ME? Most of them were used much more than any other Pokemon way before ME - Metagross, Tyranitar, Scizor, Charizard... and yeah there are also Beedrill and Pidgeot, but they were still weak compared to other Pokemon.
ME alongside Gigantamax were two chances to show off Charizard and other popular Pokemon all over again as if they wouldn't be used without it.

All the Hisuian new evolutions are currently, well. still Hisuian. Yet again they can't just make it regular and simple, it has to be some evolution of an ancient time Pokemon.

As for the forms of this new generations - just goes to show my saying is correct. Too much effort into one-time forms of older Pokemon. And good joke right there and the end, mate. Guess you're still 5 years old.

 

[Smeargle-Sketch]

How making the same Pokemon with different forms is considered more diversity than brand new (and not a copycat) Pokemon?

As for ME - do you remember which Pokemon got ME? Most of them were used much more than any other Pokemon way before ME - Metagross, Tyranitar, Scizor, Charizard... and yeah there are also Beedrill and Pidgeot, but they were still weak compared to other Pokemon.
ME alongside Gigantamax were two chances to show off Charizard and other popular Pokemon all over again as if they wouldn't be used without it.

All the Hisuian new evolutions are currently, well. still Hisuian. Yet again they can't just make it regular and simple, it has to be some evolution of an ancient time Pokemon.

As for the forms of this new generations - just goes to show my saying is correct. Too much effort into one-time forms of older Pokemon. And good joke right there and the end, mate. Guess you're still 5 years old.

I said my reasoning. I like Darmanitan, Sandslash and Marowak. Now I have 2 of each that I equally like, that's pretty great. Beedrill and Sabeleye are some of my favourites, now they get cool Mega Evolutions and make them cooler.

I don't like Slowbro, but I love Galarian Slowbro, that is also pretty cool.

Regional Evolutions overall I just find neat, Perrserker is fun.

Is what it is. If you don't agree, even after my explanations, that's fine. Your opinion.

I'm actually not sure what you mean by joke at the end. Legitimate question I have, I find those that don't like forms if made aware of them prior don't have such a negative reaction when revealed.

So apologies if that was taken as ingenuine, but I really am just asking if you'd like to know the numbers and the who gets what this gen is all. Since that info has been leaked for months and all current reveals as well as Wiglett confirm them further.



Addtionally, Ursaluna, Kleavor and Wyrdeer all evolve from their original base forms. These aren't Hisuian Pokemon, they are the same kind of Cross-Gen evolutions we last saw in gen 4. Scarlet and Violet will have Home access and even then we know Ursaring and Scyther are in the games. Add in the items needed for evolution and these Pokemon are still in the new game's dex. Wyrdeer probably will be changed to just having to know Psyshield Bash if in the game.

One more thing. Regional Forms are still always going to be transferable if the original Pokemon is in the game itself, same with their regional evolutions. So its not like they take spots away, they share the same space in the dex.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

All the Hisuian new evolutions are currently, well. still Hisuian. Yet again they can't just make it regular and simple, it has to be some evolution of an ancient time Pokemon.

We already know some of the Hisuian pokemon will be in Scarlet and Violet. Also, the pokemon they evolve from are not "ancient time" pokemon. They're regular Stantler, Ursaring, etc. from probably a couple hundred years ago. The methods to evolve them simply became lost or rare over time and presumably can still be used if one knows what to do (find some peat for Ursaring for instance).

 

[Endless]

One more thing. Regional Forms are still always going to be transferable if the original Pokemon is in the game itself, same with their regional evolutions. So its not like they take spots away, they share the same space in the dex.

I wouldn't say it is guaranteed that this will be the case forever. Just looking at PLA and one can see that aside from Sneasel the original variant of Pokémon with Hisuian variants are not in the game. One can always discuss if PLA should be considered a proper core title or not despite it officially being a mainline game, but it has set a precedent regardless.

 

[Sponge]

That and people are just really content with not knowing more and respect Pokemon too much to pry.

I could see it as local superstition and a disrespectful act to remove the skull from a Cubone.

It seems unrealistic to me that there wouldn't be people in the Pokemon world who don't care about being disrespectful.

We've got evil teams with leaders who often just see Pokemon as tools and who often have shady scientists in their ranks. Then there are people like Cara Liss who seem to have poor morals when it comes to science.

I feel like it's more a case that they (Gamefreak) just want there to be some mystery/they haven't thought about it and don't care about putting time into thinking about it.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

Farigiraf is the first of the new pokemon I definitely want on my team. I love the design, and how the okapi finally became a giraffe. Its a good mix of cool and cute, and the way the tail head acts as armor is clever. The stats it has will matter of course, but both its abilities seem quite useful too, and Normal/Psychic remains one of the few Normal type combinations that provide bigger benefits to the combination than just a extra neutral STAB.

 

[Reinhardt]

I like Faragiraf, not so much that I'd want to use it on a team, but I was always fond of Girafarig and it's nice to see it get a new evolution.

 

[janejane6178]

I like Faragiraf, not so much that I'd want to use it on a team, but I was always fond of Girafarig and it's nice to see it get a new evolution.

It is cute

 

[Pokemon Fan]

One odd thing is the site says that Girafarig simply are able to evolve in the Paldea region, no special method needed. But that makes one think that in future games they may have to create a new way for Girafarig to evolve that isn't reliant on the region it lives in.