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Gen 9 Pokemon - Discussion/Speculation Thread

Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
The more I look and think about it the more similarities between Infernape and Annihilape I see:
1. Similar name
2. Very close BST (535 for Annihilape and 534 Infernape)
3. Same size
4. Almost same weight
5. Infernape hair flame and Annihilape ghostly hair
6. Similar poseł and body structure
7. Infernape arm and knee gold plates and Annihilape Black chains.

Am I the only one seeing them as somehow similar and 2 sides of the same coin?
 

MidnightHo-Oh

Well-Known Member
The more I look and think about it the more similarities between Infernape and Annihilape I see:
1. Similar name
2. Very close BST (535 for Annihilape and 534 Infernape)
3. Same size
4. Almost same weight
5. Infernape hair flame and Annihilape ghostly hair
6. Similar poseł and body structure
7. Infernape arm and knee gold plates and Annihilape Black chains.

Am I the only one seeing them as somehow similar and 2 sides of the same coin?
Not sure, as you also have several differences:
1) Ghost vs Fire typing
2) Infernape has a slim build while Annihilape has a bulkier/rounder build
3) Infernape is inspired by Sun Wukong, the main character in the Chinese epic Journey to the West, whereas Annihilape is inspired by a Pokedex entry about Primeape dying when it gets too mad
 

Misty Lover17

Water Trainer
The Pokemon designs of this generation aren't bad, but it feels like they are not good as older generations.

I played the game and ended it within a week, the game was great but it feels like something is missing. maybe more features with people.
 
We have artwork of almost all the new Pokémon now, although the scan quality varies greatly, I suspect some of them are just images taken of the guides with phone cameras. The only missing ones are Gholdengo and Arctibax. The different forms of Oinkologne, Squawkabilly, Maushold, Dudunsparce, and Tatsugiri may or may not get separate art down the line.
art.jpg
 

urrutiap

Well-Known Member
So exactly how is the 3rd form the "King" supposed to be better or whatever than the regular 2nd forum?

visually the "King" Bisharp is pretty much sitting the whole time on his butt or throne chair or whatever.
 

Smeargle-Sketch

Sketcher of Smeargles
thats a croc of doodoo. you really believe what you just said?
"Kingambit may be based on a samurai and a shogun or daimyo. It gives an appearance as if it is sitting on a throne; specifically, the black and red motif is reminiscent of the Chrysanthemum Throne. Kingambit also vaguely resembles a rhinoceros beetle: its hair, the blade on its head, and the curved blades on its waist resemble the beetle's carapace, horn, and legs, respectively; and its prostrating stance before attacking opponents with its blade is similar to how rhinoceros beetles fight each other."

You really had to make a thread about this?
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
So exactly how is the 3rd form the "King" supposed to be better or whatever than the regular 2nd forum?

visually the "King" Bisharp is pretty much sitting the whole time on his butt or throne chair or whatever.
Kingambit is based on a Japanese Samurai commander, and its pose is based on a commander sitting on their camp stool. This is reflected in both its Pokedex entries as well as its Ability (the Japanese name of which, Sodaisho, is a term applied to highest-ranking Samurai commanders), and there's a clear visual comparison to be drawn between Kingambit and things like the statue of Shingen Takeda in Nagano (though I'm sure there are other examples as well).
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
I'd like to add that a battlefield commander, regardless of country, is very unlikely to march into the front lines due to 1) their leadership being necessary for the military to work, and 2) they are exposing themselves to the opposing military force, who WILL seize that opportunity for a "decapitation" (killing the leader to put the rest of the forces into disarray). Part of the reason Ukraine has been able to go toe-to-toe with Russia in the Russian invasion that began February 2022, despite Russia having a numbers and (initially) a weapons advantage, is because Russia's military likes to send their generals out into the open, where snipers and long-range artillery on the Ukrainian side pick them off. Top Russian general Valery Gerasimov was nearly killed when he personally visited Ukraine, intelligence found his whereabouts, and an artillery strike was launched at his location. (Gerasimov's deputy, who was standing next to him, WAS killed, as were a large number of the soldiers accompanying him.)

The only times any competent military in history has had their commanders there with the soldiers, it's for morale, and they remain in the back. This held just as true for feudal Japan as any other time and place. A shogun that stood up to fight in battle directly was a shogun who would soon be dead. A smart shogun would sit in a hidden location somewhere and command from there, not stand out in the field (and anyone dumb enough to stand out there would be dead before getting promoted to shogun).

Kingambit is based on a Japanese Samurai commander, and its pose is based on a commander sitting on their camp stool. This is reflected in both its Pokedex entries as well as its Ability (the Japanese name of which, Sodaisho, is a term applied to highest-ranking Samurai commanders), and there's a clear visual comparison to be drawn between Kingambit and things like the statue of Shingen Takeda in Nagano (though I'm sure there are other examples as well).
Also reflected in its stats: Kingambit is the slowest Pokémon in its evolutionary line.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
I noticed something about all the Paradox Pokemon based on not fully evolved Pokemon-all of those bases require an evolution stone to evolve
  • Scream Tail-Jigglypuff evolves with a Moon Stone
  • Flutter Mane-Misdreavus evolves with a Dusk Stone
  • Sandy Shocks-Gen 8 onwards Magneton evolves with a Thunder Stone

Could this imply that evolutionary stones were recent geologically speaking?
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
I noticed something about all the Paradox Pokemon based on not fully evolved Pokemon-all of those bases require an evolution stone to evolve
  • Scream Tail-Jigglypuff evolves with a Moon Stone
  • Flutter Mane-Misdreavus evolves with a Dusk Stone
  • Sandy Shocks-Gen 8 onwards Magneton evolves with a Thunder Stone

Could this imply that evolutionary stones were recent geologically speaking?
All of them also have either an evolution or a pre-evolution introduced in a later generation.
 

RedJirachi

Veteran member
All of them also have either an evolution or a pre-evolution introduced in a later generation.
Pokemon treats newer generations as having always existed via soft retcon so I don't really consider that as something to note in-universe
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
I noticed something about all the Paradox Pokemon based on not fully evolved Pokemon-all of those bases require an evolution stone to evolve
  • Scream Tail-Jigglypuff evolves with a Moon Stone
  • Flutter Mane-Misdreavus evolves with a Dusk Stone
  • Sandy Shocks-Gen 8 onwards Magneton evolves with a Thunder Stone

Could this imply that evolutionary stones were recent geologically speaking?

Hard to say for sure given how in 9 generations we know surprisingly little about the origins of these stones or how they actually induce evolution (or clear confirmed information about the paradox Pokemon for that matter) . We know for certain that by the time of legends Arceus that stones were there but given how far back these past Pokemon supposed to exist anything is possible (scream tail is claimed to come from 1billion years ago and the others vary). My guess is the not fully evolved Pokemon are just a shorthand way to show these are more primitive forms rather than specifically stone based ones as Magneton can also evolve by being in a magnetic areas. If you look at the future forms all of them are based on Pokemon that are currently fully evolved and its only the past forms that are based on not fully evolved Pokemon.
 

Onyx Tanuki

Ma! There's a weird 'nuki in the yahd!
I noticed something about all the Paradox Pokemon based on not fully evolved Pokemon-all of those bases require an evolution stone to evolve
  • Scream Tail-Jigglypuff evolves with a Moon Stone
  • Flutter Mane-Misdreavus evolves with a Dusk Stone
  • Sandy Shocks-Gen 8 onwards Magneton evolves with a Thunder Stone

Could this imply that evolutionary stones were recent geologically speaking?
Iron Valiant is of special note here in that it both defies and goes along with this pattern. It's the only one based on a line with split evolutions, making it an anomaly among the Paradox pokemon already, and while one of those evolutions is by level, the other requires a Dawn Stone. That said, all the ones you noted are past forms, so your theory still holds; it just only applies to past Paradoxes as of now.
 

Victreebong

Gives 'em the slip..
When it comes to Todescruel what really surprised me was it only hard one ability. Mycelium Might is ok but it has a major disadvantage. Its hardly Regigigas or Slaking when it comes to stats so they could have given it at least a hidden ability. A lot of mushroom pokemon get effect spore or they could have given it something else like anticipation or pickup that was less battle useful but at least means you have options.

They didn’t want that 100 base speed Spore going crazy. Be careful what you ask for: I could just see Game Freak giving Toedscool Hustle and Toedscruel Slow Start.

I’m speculating that the creation of the Paradox Pokemon were brought up in the debug stages of the game as a way to introduce both a fresh twist to the plot of the game/new Mons, and as another way to recycle resources. Just about all the different frame sizes are included in the ones we’ve received. And we ALL know Game Freak was really behind on this entry for its release. It took almost two and a half months to release all of the new official artwork, several months worth of updates, the files for Toedscool/Toedscruel being labeled Magikarp and Gyarados file names, etc. I think the Paradox Pokemon could be fit neatly in while making for a compelling plot finale since they would only have to change the palettes, textures, and add a few adjustments to the animations. And for all their issues, SV do have a solid, heart-aching plot.
 

Onyx Tanuki

Ma! There's a weird 'nuki in the yahd!
Not sure if this belongs here or in the sticky Help Thread, but considering this is meant for pokemon discussion, I'll take my chances. I'm trying to decide on who to use as my Grass type Tera Raid pokemon. I've got a handful of options I'm considering:

Toedscruel @ Big Root
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Bold
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Leech Seed
- Confuse Ray/Acupressure

Benefits:
- Access to Acupressure can help allies without buffing moves
- Can ignore status immunities via its Ability

Detriments:
- Weakest overall bulk (except SpDef)
- Middling offenses

Arboliva @ Leftovers
Ability: Seed Sower
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
- Giga Drain/Strength Sap
- Leech Seed
- Terrain Pulse
- Substitute/Pollen Puff/Helping Hand

Benefits:
- Strongest offenses by a long shot
- Near-constant Grassy Terrain helps allies' survival

Detriments:
- Doesn't play well with future Paradoxes that don't have Booster Energy
- Almost no status effect moves to speak of
- Base HP is comparatively low

Brute Bonnet @ Heat Rock/Leftovers/Loaded Dice/Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
- Seed Bomb/Bullet Seed
- Spore
- Ingrain
- Sunny Day/Clear Smog

Benefits:
- High total BST
- Only viable option with decent Atk
- Reliance on Sun makes it a much more powerful option vs Water Tera types

Detriments:
- Lacking in recovery options that don't use its meh SpAtk
- Reliance on Sun hurts allied Water types and makes it less viable against base Fire types

Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Grass
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed
- Ingrain
- Substitute/Pollen Puff/Grassy Terrain

Benefits:
- High total BST
- Greatest number of passive recovery options

Detriments:
- No Spore (though it has other status effect options)
- Ability screws over allies that rely on Atk

I'll probably build them all anyway since I have nothing left to do in Violet except raise new pokemon and do Tera Raids anyway, but I'm still curious which of these you folks think would be most generally useful and if there's any options I've failed to consider.
 
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