Gen 9 Starters - Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Bus]

I didn't skip that part (at least, I didn't mean to come across like that), I just don't think the male croc=bulls bit justifies it as a launching point. Feraligatr and Krookodile already have dinosaur/prehistoric reptile elements in their designs so it gaining any traits from them wouldn't be new ground, and in fact it'd be par the course.

I do understand your point on wanting it to be differentiated from the other crocodile/alligator Pokemon we already have though. It's one of my concerns with it as well (and Quaxly to a lesser extent) and I'm hoping they'll play around with it so it stands out from both and other reptilian starters like Snivy or Chikorita.

That's a fair point, actually. I'd love for it to be another Crocodile, but it would end up looking like the same kind of Godzilla/Dinosaur-esque design that Feraligator and Krookadile (and to a lesser extent Tyrantrum, Haxorus, and Tyranitar) already pretty much have. Not that they couldn't do another one, but Gamefreak has been paying attention to people's complaints so I'm sure they're wary of repeating designs too much. What if they were to do something like this:

Spoiler

Obviously with a more pepper flair to it, but a centaur-like crocodile? or even a 6 legged crocodile (which means it wouldn't be Bipedal)? I know they don't like to get too overly detailed with designs for pokemon, but maybe they could do one of these two ideas while keeping it relatively simple.

As for Quaxley, I am 100% expecting him to turn into a Water/Fighting Matador where one of his wings can be used as a cape and his feather tuft atop his head is the traditional hat.

Spoiler

And finally, for Spirigato (who I'm really tempted to choose as my starter) I'm hoping for a Black Jaguar. Since they typically live in the forest anyway, should be a pretty easy thing to make look good. A nice elegant Jaguar that's black and vibrant green with vines or a fur coat of foliage.

Spoiler

 

[Mythical-Moonlight]

I have a question for all of you Sprigatito fans who want the kitty to stay on all Fours


How would you feel if Sprigatito's evolution DOES stay Quadruped....

BUT we just end up getting a Grass Type version of Purugly

Would that be an example of a Monkey's Paw (Grookey's Paw?) or would you be okay with it?

 

[TRNRLogan]

I have a question for all of you Sprigatito fans who want the kitty to stay on all Fours


How would you feel if Sprigatito's evolution DOES stay Quadruped....

BUT we just end up getting a Grass Type version of Purugly

Would that be an example of a Monkey's Paw (Grookey's Paw?) or would you be okay with it?

I like Purugly so I'd be fine with it.

 

[Orphalesion]

I don't care whether a Pokémon ends up bipedal or quadrupedal. As long as I like the design it's good with me, no matter how many legs it stands on.

 

[Cradily17]

I hope that Sprigatito's final evolution becomes bipedal and feminine. I tend to prefer bipedal starters over quadrupeds. Giving a Pokemon four legs doesn't automatically make it a good design.

 

[ValorSuga]

I have a bad feeling that Sprigatito will become another Cinderace clone & Fuecoco will have Greedent/Diggersby vibes with Its final evo design

 

[OshyHikari]

I mean looking at the current gen 9 starters the only one that seems like it could gain the Dragon typing upon evolving is Fuecoco.

The problem is if you make it Fire/Dragon, it won’t be weak to the Water starter anymore unless if Quaxly’s evolution gets say, Ground, Rock or Fairy to counter that. And even then, Quaxly’s design doesn’t suggest it’ll become any of those types. I feel not making Charizard Dragon-type in Gen 1 was intentionally to not make it overpowered.

 

[Locormus]

I didn't skip that part (at least, I didn't mean to come across like that), I just don't think the male croc=bulls bit justifies it as a launching point. Feraligatr and Krookodile already have dinosaur/prehistoric reptile elements in their designs so it gaining any traits from them wouldn't be new ground, and in fact it'd be par the course.

I do understand your point on wanting it to be differentiated from the other crocodile/alligator Pokemon we already have though. It's one of my concerns with it as well (and Quaxly to a lesser extent) and I'm hoping they'll play around with it so it stands out from both and other reptilian starters like Snivy or Chikorita.

I disagree on your takes on Feraligatr and Krookodile. They're literally just an alligator and crocodile, put on their hindlegs with a few embelishments/exaggerations to fit their motifs. The only thing I can see as a 'prehistoric reptile'-element on Krookodile could be the cartoonishly slender arms, but even then they're too long to reference the typical short forelimbs of theropods (see Tyrantrum for a proper example). And if there are any other prehistoric reptile elements, that would mostly be because crocodiles are literally an ancient species.. but ancient crocodile =/= carnotaurus in my eyes.

Anyway, this is just speculation. I'm not saying Fuecoco will end up as a Carnotaurus inspired creature. Just that it's an option I could see it going in to.

 

[Taodragon]

I disagree on your takes on Feraligatr and Krookodile. They're literally just an alligator and crocodile, put on their hindlegs with a few embelishments/exaggerations to fit their motifs. The only thing I can see as a 'prehistoric reptile'-element on Krookodile could be the cartoonishly slender arms, but even then they're too long to reference the typical short forelimbs of theropods (see Tyrantrum for a proper example). And if there are any other prehistoric reptile elements, that would mostly be because crocodiles are literally an ancient species.. but ancient crocodile =/= carnotaurus in my eyes.

Anyway, this is just speculation. I'm not saying Fuecoco will end up as a Carnotaurus inspired creature. Just that it's an option I could see it going in to.

And the embellishments/exaggerations come from dinosaurs/prehistoric reptiles. Take Feraligatr's spikes for instance, the appearance of them are very similar to that of stegosauruses as crocodiles/alligators do not have nearly as large and exaggerated of spikes. Just because they're not 1:1 in their interpretation doesn't mean those borrowed traits don't exist. Additionally, and following that point, Pokemon doesn't have to be 1:1 with its interpretations of certain creatures, especially in later generations. Tyrantrum is definitely a tyrannosaurus given Pokemon form, but Pokemon like Zekrom, Tyranitar (basically Pokemon Godzilla, but Godzilla himself also draws from multiple prehistoric life), and Sceptile also take cues from theropods in their designs, but are given embellishments and flourishes to differentiate and make them more unique from their real life counterpart. We could see Fuecoco become a straight theropod, but it can also just take small cues from them or even other prehistoric life and go in its own direction.

In the end though, I'm not slamming the possibility of it being a Carnotaurus, I just disagreed with how you launched the point. It taking cues or even evolving into the carnotaurus is a neat option, we just started the discussion on a different foot.

 

[Orphalesion]

Carnotaurus as they look in actual, scientific reconstructions rather than Jurassic World (where they were just a tyrannosaur with horns), actually look pretty cool.,a nd I wouldn't mind a Pokemon based on them, just not sure that Fuecoco will evolve into one.

 

[Beloberto]

Interesting point raised about the Electric type. I have a feeling there is an unspoken rule about what additional types they give starter Pokemon; Dragon, Bug and Ice stand out as types that just wouldn't feel right on a starter, although I can see the logic behind not using the latter two, as Bug and Ice are objectively the weakest types in the games and, since starter Pokemon are meant be one of the player's best team member (especially during the early game), having either of those types would undermine their usefulness.

Water/Bug has 5 resistances and only 3 weaknesses. Fire/Bug has 6 resistances against only 3 weaknesses.
That's better than most of the duo types the starters got on the last 3 generations. Only Grass/Bug is disastrous and should be avoided at any cost.

I have a question for all of you Sprigatito fans who want the kitty to stay on all Fours


How would you feel if Sprigatito's evolution DOES stay Quadruped....

BUT we just end up getting a Grass Type version of Purugly

Would that be an example of a Monkey's Paw (Grookey's Paw?) or would you be okay with it?

I would love that, but I think it is impossible. Pokémon Company kept getting progressively aware of the importance of the starters as selling points, nowadays they are all made to be popular (it is no surprise they are all humanoid nowadays. Regardless how much we complain about those, they are always more popular than the bestial/quadrupede starters).
Venusaur would have never happen nowadays. Even Emboar is a relic from long lost days when the starters were not fully designed to be terribly popular.

 

[Locormus]

Water/Bug has 5 resistances and only 3 weaknesses. Fire/Bug has 6 resistances against only 3 weaknesses.
That's better than most of the duo types the starters got on the last 3 generations. Only Grass/Bug is disastrous and should be avoided at any cost.

I would love that, but I think it is impossible. Pokémon Company kept getting progressively aware of the importance of the starters as selling points, nowadays they are all made to be popular (it is no surprise they are all humanoid nowadays. Regardless how much we complain about those, they are always more popular than the bestial/quadrupede starters).
Venusaur would have never happen nowadays. Even Emboar is a relic from long lost days when the starters were not fully designed to be terribly popular.

The only problem I have with this is that there are numerous interviews with Masuda about how they wanted to get the Gen5 starters right, citing a trip to an aquatic zoo to get the inspiration for Samurott. Thus "when starters were not fully designed to be terribly popular" is an assumption I can't get behind.

What is a valid assumption is that the public perception of what's 'cool' changes over time. Yes, Venusaur would probably not happen in this day and age, but that goes for a LOT of things (cough*Jynx*cough). However, it's a documented fact that the starters get preferential treatment designwise well-throughout the franchise - and not just recent years.

Your argument also foregoes the amounts of duds we had in the last three gens. Greninja may be one of the most popular starters, but Chesnaught and Delphox were panned as far as I could tell. The Alolan starters were quite good, but the Galar-starters aren't really that impressive at all even if they are humanoid.

 

[Luthor]

Water/Bug has 5 resistances and only 3 weaknesses. Fire/Bug has 6 resistances against only 3 weaknesses.
That's better than most of the duo types the starters got on the last 3 generations. Only Grass/Bug is disastrous and should be avoided at any cost.


I would love that, but I think it is impossible. Pokémon Company kept getting progressively aware of the importance of the starters as selling points, nowadays they are all made to be popular (it is no surprise they are all humanoid nowadays. Regardless how much we complain about those, they are always more popular than the bestial/quadrupede starters).
Venusaur would have never happen nowadays. Even Emboar is a relic from long lost days when the starters were not fully designed to be terribly popular.

Designing a Pokemon to be popular is fairly impractical to guarantee. Look at Hisuian Decidueye which is a Pokemon that is loved by some but disliked by others. There's also Pokemon like Primarina which some people love but a lot don't like. My favourite Galar starter is Inteleon but there's a lot of people who don't like it. Its all subjective.

 

[Bus]

Designing a Pokemon to be popular is fairly impractical to guarantee. Look at Hisuian Decidueye which is a Pokemon that is loved by some but disliked by others. There's also Pokemon like Primarina which some people love but a lot don't like. My favourite Galar starter is Inteleon but there's a lot of people who don't like it. Its all subjective.

I think you might both be right.

You're right that preference is subjective; some may like Intelleon, but many don't really care about it. At the same time, I think he's right in that they strive to make designs that they think will be liked; it's just that they don't always turn out that way.

I think they are striving to go for more mass appeal with the looks of the starters but since there are so many people with so many preferences you'll never be able to please 100% of people.

On that note, since they have been hearing for a long time now (since Gen 7's Incineroar anyway) that people wanted a Quadrupedal cat starter, there's a good chance they may keep that in mind and think that the general preference will be keeping him on all fours.

 

[Orphalesion]

On that note, since they have been hearing for a long time now (since Gen 7's Incineroar anyway) that people wanted a Quadrupedal cat starter, there's a good chance they may keep that in mind and think that the general preference will be keeping him on all fours.

But how do the Japanese fans feel about it? Wouldn't they be more likely to be heard and have their preferences considered than us internationals?

 

[Mythical-Moonlight]

But how do the Japanese fans feel about it? Wouldn't they be more likely to be heard and have their preferences considered than us internationals?

If this post is any indication, you've got quite a lot of people over there who are dreading the thought of Sprigatito looking like Incineroar, Chestnaught or Purugly in it's final stage.

I know Twitter isn't the "go to" for people's widespread opinions but it's something to think about....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497940086562111493

There's also this article https://automaton-media.com/en/news/20220228-10088/

 

[Orphalesion]

If this post is any indication, you've got quite a lot of people over there who are dreading the thought of Sprigatito looking like Incineroar, Chestnaught or Purugly in it's final stage.

I know Twitter isn't the "go to" for people's widespread opinions but it's something to think about....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497940086562111493

There's also this article https://automaton-media.com/en/news/20220228-10088/

Well with the twitter post, I can't tell what it says, je ne parle pas japonais (I assume it says something along the lines of hoping for Sprigatito to stay on all fours?) but good to know

 

[The Head Honchkrow]

I'm sure no one wants to hear this, but if I were a betting man, I'd have to say that Sprigatito will end up being bipedal.
Think about it; the last quadrupede starter we had was Samurott (who ironically I actually would have liked way more had it been bipedal).
Furthermore, bipedal designs like Decidueye, Incineroar and Greninja are immensely popular.
On a tangential note, I watch Subjectively's Fakemon videos, and one thing he talks about regarding his starter designs is the importance of anthromorphism (this video, specifically @9:45). Of course, these are just thoughts of a fan and not the word of God, but I can definitely see what he means regarding the final form of a starter Pokemon.
All that said, I don't necessarily think Sprigatito becoming bipedal is a huge deal (although admittedly I don't have much stake in this; I'm a Fuecoco guy myself) and if it does, I don't believe it will be just another Incineroar; I could see it becoming similar in build to Lucario or Zeraora.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm sure no one wants to hear this, but if I were a betting man, I'd have to say that Sprigatito will end up being bipedal.
Think about it; the last quadrupede starter we had was Samurott (who ironically I'd actually would liked way more had it been bipedal).
Furthermore, bipedal designs like Decidueye, Incineroar and Greninja are immensely popular.
On a tangential note, I watch Subjectively's Fakemon videos, and one thing he talks about regarding his starter designs is the importance of anthromorphism (this video, specifically @9:45). Of course, these are just thoughts of a fan and not the word of God, but I can definitely see what he means regarding the final form of a starter Pokemon.
All that said, I don't necessarily think Sprigatito becoming bipedal is a huge deal (although admittedly I don't have much stake in this; I'm a Fuecoco guy myself) and if it does, I don't believe it will be just another Incineroar; I could see it becoming similar in build to Lucario or Zeraora.

I think that Sprigatito would become incredibly feminine and serve as a counterpart to the very masculine Incineroar.

 

[Orphalesion]

Honestly I generally prefer the modern, more anthropomorphic starters to the older ones. Primarina is hands-down my favourite starter, Rillaboom and Inceneroar are number 2 and 3. Sure I have some nostalgic affection for Venusaur, because it was my first starter, but really, I chose Bulbasaur because I liked it better than Charmander or Squirtle. And among the Johto and Hoenn starters I don't like any in particular (I like Chikorita's base form, but not its evolutions)
I don't dislike all the older more "animalistic" starters (I genuinely like Torterra) but I generally prefer the newer ones.