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Gender Equality in 2016 - What Is Still Unjust?

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by U.N. Owen, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    It's been quite a while since women began fighting for the right to vote, right to their property, and many other things.

    So, my question is, what is still wrong in the world?

    For starters Hermesmann v. Seyer was a court case where an at the time 16 year old babysitter raped a 12 year old boy. When she got pregnant, she promptly sued the boy for child support. Colleen Hermesmann won.

    Keep it civil please.
  2. Auraninja

    Auraninja Gre-nin-ja!

    A lot of it deals with the stigma.

    People will tend to take women less seriously if they give an idea than a man if they give the same idea.

    To put this into more detail. If a woman came up with an idea for a comic book movie, and was scoffed off about it, a man could say that exact same thing and be lauded for it.

    Unfortunately, geek culture plays into sexism since the industry is not as gender friendly as other businesses. Part of this has to do with the industry being considerably younger than, say, being a scientist. Another part of it is because the Internet plays a large role and some of the worse parts of human thought come out from the ugly shadows of things like Youtube comments, or Facebook replies.

    I mentioned scientists earlier as a comparison, but that industry hasn't been the most friendly either, as evolution is that industry comes over time, as well as gender equality. One of the most noteworthy instances comes from Rosalind Franklin, where her work in X-Ray Crystallography is largely under-credited and the discovery of DNA (which is huge for genetics and biology and biochemistry in general) gets largely credited to Wattson and Crick, the former of which is well known to be a racist prick, and he even went so far as to say that blacks have inferior genes to white people.

    The last note, and the most dire one, is that women are much more likely to be sexually harassed then men. Sexual harassment to men can happen, and that should be frowned upon as well, but women face this more often, and more on a timely basis to men. This is extremely important to note, because equal opportunities means an equal environment. Even if a woman got equal pay as a man for doing the same amount of work at the same job, there is no true equality if a woman has to endure ridicule and harassment.
  3. That's a serious question? You can start with the jaw dropping rate in which women are sexually assaulted, for one. Whether it's 1/4, 1/5, or 1/7 which is the most conservative estimate I've seen that's pretty staggering when you think about it. There's also the matter of not just having abortion legal as a medical procedure, but fighting for states to provide equal access to it. More abstractly, our culture views women as largely being inferior to men because the feminine traits women are raised to embody are undervalued in comparison with what we perceive as masculine traits. Traits we typically associate with femininity such as emotional vulnerability, gentleness, mercy, compassion, or being nurturing are denigrated as characteristics that make someone weak, a sap, or pushover - so by extension women will always be seen as the lesser unless those traits can be learned to be appreciated in the same way masculine traits are valued.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016
  4. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    Sexual harassment is common to both men and women. In my workplace, it's utterly insane how men and women would avoid each other ever since a woman got a man fired for "harassing" her. Apparently, they used to date and she ended up accusing him of harassment after they broke up. He was fired at the tip of a hat.

    One month later, security footage showed that she wasn't harassed at the time and place she was claimed. Why the man didn't sue her for libel is beyond me.
  5. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    I just love how anytime someone brings up an issue women have there's always the "Well Men have to deal with it too" response.
  6. I never said men don't get sexually harassed or assaulted, but it's a pittance is comparison with what women deal with. Thanks for deferring the subject to some anecdotal story about a woman crying wolf though. You're super.

    Every. ****ing. Time.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
  7. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    I can already see where this topic is going to head: spend hours educating OP about real world gender dynamics he can't see due to male privilege.
  8. Auraninja

    Auraninja Gre-nin-ja!

    I noticed that I brought that up (not as the whole response, but as a tidbit).

    For the sake of argument, if 90% of sexual harassment or assault cases have women as victims, then we need to improve the state of gender equality for this to be a lop-sided statistic.

    As for another argument, let's say that 90% of police brutalities acts are against minority suspects (or false arrest of minorities, etc.). Then we need to improve the state of minority relations within our country.

    I know there isn't much of a solution I'm offering here, but to fix the solution is to know the problem.

    A true sense of empathy is a hard thing to come by.

    I said I didn't offer a solution, but part of that solution is to stand up for those on the less fortunate end of the stick.

    While America is known as "The Land of Opportunity", we need to do more to hold up that name. There is much more to do everywhere else in the world, but America should be setting up the example, not falling like the others.
  9. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator


    There's also stuff like this, where there's a subtle disrespect to women performing better than men. It doesn't matter if they can play the sport, stuff like this shows a problem still exists.
  10. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    Was it statutory rape? Maybe we should repeal the age of consent. That could solve your problem.
  11. Auraninja

    Auraninja Gre-nin-ja!

    It reminds me off an infograph that I believe was made by Melee player, Milktea. In this infograph, she claims that one quarter of women are sexually harassed at SSB Melee tournaments.
    One of the statistics show what percent of the community would get frustrated if a woman actually beat them.

    Edit: Here is a smashboards link. It encompasses the whole infograph, with sexism being a part of it (albeit a large part of it).
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
  12. Ketaru

    Ketaru Well-Known Member

    While the example here was something of a variation of "#NotAllMen", a broader point could be made that equality between men and women is more likely if both men and women are behind it. And one of the ways to bring more men into the fold is to demonstrate how sexism hurts them as well.

    One particular example in my personal life is in the gender breakdown in my classes. In my school's social work program, it is not at all unusual for me to be one of maybe two men in the room in a class of thirty. This is a problem because there aren't as many men going into the helping professions, and male clients are more likely to be receptive to a counselor if he is also male. Unfortunately, there is a stigma about men in the helping professions such as therapists, teachers, counselors, and social workers because, as Baba Yaga pointed out, traits we typically associate with femininity are devalued.

    Same thing goes for unreported rape where a man is the victim because, among many other reasons, rape is seen a crime against women.

    Of course, this all goes back to the same point- femininity is bad and to be perceived as feminine is bad.
  13. Auraninja

    Auraninja Gre-nin-ja!

    The big reason men should speak out on sexism is that empathy is a great part of civil rights.
    Idealistically, women could achieve this by themselves easily, but the crueler impact of societal standards warrants the need for some men to stand up.
    With the professional Melee player I mentioned earlier, milktea did a TED talk about how sexism can be countered by empathy.

    It's similar to how big businesses have denounced LGBT discrimination. Businesses should not be the highest moral authority, but businesses stepping in could allow individuals to step in.
    Overall, I think the process is collective.

    Currently, in the annoying and dumb online trends, hashtag: FeministAMovie got popular on twitter.

    Like the hashtag: HeterosexualPrideDay, it's not the tag itself as much as its use of insults and verbal attacks.

    Edit: To elaborate, I wouldn't be offended if it was something like Silence of the Lambs with Susan B. Anthony Hopkins. I can't think of a great example, but my point is that if it was just goofy puns that takes actual concepts of feminism, it wouldn't be annoying.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  14. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    Yep, it was statutory rape.

    Shane Seyer was only twelve when Coleen Hermesmann committed statutory rape. It's disgusting how this thing can happen.
  15. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    I found the Wikipedia page for the case. I didn't realize earlier that this happened in 1987. The baby is older than me.

    Do you think some problems, like this one, could be solved if the age of consent was lowered to puberty?
  16. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    I'm personally a fan of the age of the current consent laws. 16-18+ seems like a decent window in my opinion. What I'm ticked off about is the fact someone can sue the rape victim for child support. What doesn't anyone fight this? It's madness.
  17. SlowPokeBroKing

    SlowPokeBroKing Future Gym Leader

    You're so bent out of shape about this one thing. It is unfortunate, indeed. But women face so many more problems than this bull-**** you're trying to pass off as men being discriminated against. It's all the same with people who don't understand feminism. "Boohoo, men have to pay child support and don't have good custody rights sometimes. Wahhh, men don't get to have complete control over a woman's abortion." If that's the best sexists can come up with, the splinters under your fingertips from scratching at the bottom of the barrel will fester soon enough.
  18. Auraninja

    Auraninja Gre-nin-ja!

    To add on with my own thoughts, you can find plenty of women victimizing men as cases. However, many women deal with sexual harassment on a daily basis. It's not just about the most extreme cases; sometimes you have to look at the most common ones.

    Also, TBH, I thought OP was talking the other way around, where a boy molested a girl.
    Both are deplorable actions, but to only point out the most extremes is a very polar argument.
  19. SlowPokeBroKing

    SlowPokeBroKing Future Gym Leader

    One should always look to what's most common, especially in this particular debate (although the fact that this is a debate frustrates me to no end). In referencing commonality, we have to also recognize proportion. It can be said that 5 white citizens and 5 black citizens were shot unfairly this month by police, but it's a bit more of a problem when there are 500 white citizens and 100 black citizens.
  20. L. Lawliet

    L. Lawliet Black Ice Trainer

    Hun, you are just as sexist as the people you are trying to villianize.

    Men and women go through issues. Women get hit on a lot, wanted or not. Guys die more on the job. Women have an advantage in court statistically against men when it comes to child custody. Feminism and meninism are complete jokes nowadays, with their movements being hijacked by the radical left and the... cringier crowd respectively.
    Rape accusations should be innocent until proven guilty. That is how the law works, and is how it is interpreted. Regrettable sex is not rape, nor is it sexual harassment if you repeal consent after the act is done.
    Child custody should be evenly split. You cant grow up psychologically normal without a masculine and feminine person in your life, and taking one away when neither parent is abusive or neglectful is a travesty.
    Overall, i think each movement needs to fix itself from the inside, because as it is, neither one is anywhere close to being right.

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