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General Character Discussion Thread

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BlitzGirl41

Well-Known Member
It's possible that the Ultra Beasts were going to play a bigger role in the story but it was removed for time and/or budget reasons.

I mean, that cutscene shows the Tapus and Kahunas engaging the Ultra Beasts...then later in the game, the Kahunas and Tapus are just fine with the Ultra Beasts nowhere in sight. The implication is that the Tapus and Kahunas collectively defeated all of the Ultra Beasts, but the fact remains that plot point happens completely offscreen after the engagements and that no one ever seems to speak about it except Lillie and Lusamine, who are far from all of them.

Yes, the whole Tapu vs Ultra Beasts plot point not being shown was one of the few times I was genuinely disappointed with the game.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Go talk with him at Aether Paradise after finishing the main plot.
He will give you a Type: Null, ROMs for your Silvally and talk a little about his past, as well as his father. :D

But he doesn't use the name Mohn, does he? As obvious as they might take it, I don't believe Mohn is ever directly said to be the father.
 

YonaNoveau

Well-Known Member
Yes, the whole Tapu vs Ultra Beasts plot point not being shown was one of the few times I was genuinely disappointed with the game.

Oh yeah, when stuff was about to go down with the invading UBs I am sure everybody got excited about going out there and help the guardians fix that mess while facing the UBs as climax bosses. It's really something that' shouldn't have been left offscreen especially given it left all guardians save Tapu Koko outside the story.

@Legendary Dreams:

So you felt in a similar way regarding Gladion and Plumeria, huh? Yeah, I do agree that despite his importance and connections to Lillie and Lusamine, Gladion did lack scenes and development directly with Lillie (the shared one line of dialogue?) and to a lesser extent Lusamine (It was kinda off he wasn't around in the final battle either), though it is particularly noticeable with Lillie and the bits we are told from Gladion's side, given, strangely Lillie barely talks about Gladion outside mentioning that Lusamine screwed his life as well, you'd think their relationship was a cold one. I mean, as I said earlier, the ending itself is a good display of this: it was a powerful moment with her goodbye and her decisions and the future of her and her fammily, yet Gladion wasn't around. Then again, most of Lillie's development is with the Player, with everyone else we are mostly told some things and shown some superficial others. I mean, for example, for how heartbroken Hau is when she leaves he never got a bond with her beyond "getting along rather well".

Plumeria... more than generic just felt horribly underused. As you said, how much "tidier" and more of a winner she is portrayed compared to tragic losers team skull members are portrayed as, she feels out of place, but she isn't explored enough to establish a link that fixes this or gives a powerful meaning to her big sister role and why she'd be there, like Guzma who is shown to be a broken man as well. There are some implications here and there, but they aren't enough I guess. I mean among other things, after kidapping Lillie she just disappears from both Climatic events of the game and just asks the player's help to save Guzma in a very downplayed scene.

Amusingly enough, there were theories around before game release from those who pieced together that Gladion was from a broken family, that Plumeria would take a surrogate big sister role for him (I get it it was from the demo that did establish her as team skull's big sis IIRC), but in a blunt and more cynical well, but still well meaning and honest one, and said relationship would bring the better aspects of both. At this point it's just fanfic fodder, but it would have been a rather sweet spin.
 
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BlitzGirl41

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, when stuff was about to go down with the invading UBs I am sure everybody got excited about going out there and help the guardians fix that mess while facing the UBs as climax bosses. It's really something that' shouldn't have been left offscreen especially given it left all guardians save Tapu Koko outside the story.

@Legendary Dreams:

So you felt in a similar way regarding Gladion and Plumeria, huh? Yeah, I do agree that despite his importance and connections to Lillie and Lusamine, Gladion did lack scenes and development directly with Lillie (the shared one line of dialogue?) and to a lesser extent Lusamine (It was kinda off he wasn't around in the final battle either), though it is particularly noticeable with Lillie and the bits we are told from Gladion's side, given, strangely Lillie barely talks about Gladion outside mentioning that Lusamine screwed his life as well, you'd think their relationship was a cold one. I mean, as I said earlier, the ending itself is a good display of this: it was a powerful moment with her goodbye and her decisions and the future of her and her fammily, yet Gladion wasn't around. Then again, most of Lillie's development is with the Player, with everyone else we are mostly told some things and shown some superficial others. I mean, for example, for how heartbroken Hau is when she leaves he never got a bond with her beyond "getting along rather well".

Plumeria... more than generic just felt horribly underused. As you said, how much "tidier" and more of a winner she is portrayed compared to tragic losers team skull members are portrayed as, she feels out of place, but she isn't explored enough to establish a link that fixes this or gives a powerful meaning to her big sister role and why she'd be there, like Guzma who is shown to be a broken man as well. There are some implications here and there, but for many they aren't enough.

Amusingly enough, there were theories around before game release from those who pieced together that Gladion was from a broken family, that Plumeria would take a surrogate big sister role for him (I get it it was from the demo that did establish her as team skull's big sis IIRC) and said relationship would bring the better aspects of both. At this point it's just fanfic fodder, but it would have been a rather sweet spin.

I like to imagine that Lillie and Hau, and Lillie and Gladion, have had discussions/interaction off-screen. It's not too far-fetched, either, since there are many times when we go off to take care of something, then walk in on Lillie and other characters already hanging out together. That would suggest time has passed and they must have had interaction of some sort before we arrived on the scene. But just like real-life people, they don't necessarily talk to us about what they were privately talking about with every character. That's my "head canon", anyway, and is an example of the limitations of telling a story from a single character's perspective. We are an outsider looking in.

And can I just say that I find Lillie (and even Hau) to be 100 times more engaging than most of the past generations' friends? Unlike X/Y, R/S, and B/W, I actually felt like Lillie was a genuine friend that our character was growing close to. I couldn't make myself care about Bianca or any of the other ones whose names I've completely forgotten. Sure, Wally felt a little more personal, as did Barry, but Lillie kind of brought the best-friend-character to a new level. As someone else mentioned, S/M felt more like it was Lillie's story than our own. Which is fine, because it made her feel like a real character.
 

YonaNoveau

Well-Known Member
It's because it kind of was. The whole trial and league subplot was the player's story, but the fight with the Aether foundation which is essentially the game's main conflict was Lillie's story, the player was kinda the muscle or more gallantly her sword. I know I am being somewhat stubborn with this, and I do agree that in real life you can't see every aspect of other people's lives. But when you had a medium and you know its limitations you have to look for ways to work around them. In a game you like Pokemon you know you are limited to the Player's POV, so perhaps you need to put scenes to let us know what happens and whatnot, etc.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Lillie, Gladion and Hau, quite the opposite, I am really fond of all of them (especially the bros). Just that is precisely the reason why I wanted to have seen a little more of Gladion's depth and see him a bit more explored. And besides: Lillie is a shy, quiet sweetie with a bit of an attitude that grows into an awkward ray of sunshine, while Gladion is a melodramatic, edgy, jerk with a golden heart and snappy remarks. Come on! You have gold for memorable scenes there! XD

And I agree, though I don't remember much of BW to talk about Cheren and Bianca, the cast this time was a huge step up from XY and what essentially never came out of them.
 

BlitzGirl41

Well-Known Member
It's because it kind of was. The whole trial and league subplot was the player's story, but the fight with the Aether foundation which is essentially the game's main conflict was Lillie's story, the player was kinda the muscle or more gallantly her sword. I know I am being somewhat stubborn with this, and I do agree that in real life you can't see every aspect of other people's lives. But when you had a medium and you know its limitations you have to look for ways to work around them. In a game you like Pokemon you know you are limited to the Player's POV, so perhaps you need to put scenes to let us know what happens and whatnot, etc.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Lillie, Gladion and Hau, quite the opposite, I am really fond of all of them (especially the bros). Just that is precisely the reason why I wanted to have seen a little more of Gladion's depth and see him a bit more explored. And besides: Lillie is a shy, quiet sweetie with a bit of an attitude that grows into an awkward ray of sunshine, while Gladion is a melodramatic, edgy, jerk with a golden heart and snappy remarks. Come on! You have gold for memorable scenes there! XD

And I agree, though I don't remember much of BW to talk about Cheren and Bianca, the cast this time was a huge step up from XY and what essentially never came out of them.

Don't get me wrong, I agree, I also would have liekd to see more 'on-screen' interaction between them. I guess all we can hope for, for now, is that the anime will eventually show Lillie interacting with Gladion (I'm not watching it, but I know that it will be a good medium for that type of thing. Saw bits of the first two episodes online and it feels like am improvement over past Pokemon anime).
 
Yes, the whole Tapu vs Ultra Beasts plot point not being shown was one of the few times I was genuinely disappointed with the game.

I think the main reason why it isn't shown is because that is their plot, and Pokemon very rarely ever focuses on another character's plot for too long while the main character's plot is being executed. In this case, we were battling Lusamine at exactly the same time as when the UBs were raiding, so it wouldn't make much sense for us to see the cutscenes. Plus, unlike an anime, we are the main character, and so we should mostly stick to the main character's point of view.
 

BlitzGirl41

Well-Known Member
I think the main reason why it isn't shown is because that is their plot, and Pokemon very rarely ever focuses on another character's plot for too long while the main character's plot is being executed. In this case, we were battling Lusamine at exactly the same time as when the UBs were raiding, so it wouldn't make much sense for us to see the cutscenes. Plus, unlike an anime, we are the main character, and so we should mostly stick to the main character's point of view.

Yeah, that makes sense. It just feels like there was so many other potential opportunities that could have been taken advantage of. I'm still pretty happy with what we ended up with, though.
 

YonaNoveau

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong, I agree, I also would have liekd to see more 'on-screen' interaction between them. I guess all we can hope for, for now, is that the anime will eventually show Lillie interacting with Gladion (I'm not watching it, but I know that it will be a good medium for that type of thing. Saw bits of the first two episodes online and it feels like am improvement over past Pokemon anime).

Let's hope Gladion shows up, though. I mean, from what I get Lillie got her character and backstory completely changed and the anime takes liberties on taking out and adding in characters. The again that mostly applies to main characters IIRC and rivals simply show up at different times (Such as Barry, Cheren and the Kalos Gang showing up much later in the series). If he still shows up and is still Lillie's brother he may be a radically different character as well. That could be interesting to see.
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
Beware some post game spoilers are mentioned below:

Mina - Literally didn't exist due to the plot-rush at the end (pretty much like the Totem Kommo-o if you had a Fairy move).
Keep in mind you can visit Mina's house to find out a bit more about her. Also she does have two notable appearances in the post game.

Ilima - Well he's the first and the normal-type one and is as generic as Trial Captains go.
Aw, you don't like his two sided rich pretty boy/enthusiastic battler depiction? I assume you did visit his family and do the extra battle against him after the first grand trial?

Team Skull - This one's talking about the grunts as a whole.... they're sort of like Gladion, but they have better external exposition that paints their tragic story better than Gladion ever recevied, so they're more empathetic than their enforcer by a couple miles. They subvert the "send kids out on adventure and succeed", showing what really happens when you fail and the world (or region) constantly ostracizes you for it. Sure, they aggravated the situation on their own past some point when they completely gave up and turned punk, but you could tell it was caused by both parties.
Do we ever see any signs it was caused by both parties though? I don't recall any. All we know is that Team Skull includes a lot of failed trial goers among their ranks, and the way this is referenced sounds more like these trainers chose to not go home or face their failure or try to do something else and decided to blame everyone else instead (you'll find in the postgame a number of people are perfectly willing to help them find work).

Plumeria - Sorry, but "Big Sister" is even more generic than Gladion, with pretty much no backstory of her own and no association to even Guzma on a more personal level. Her tidiness contrasts the Team interestingly, but that only served to make her feel like a hired secretary for the Team due to her relative distance from the rest.
Maybe you'll like her a bit more in her postgame appearances? They explain/hint at a bit more about her.

Her past is something I would like to see explored though. We get a vague reference that there was something wrong or tragic about how her journey as a trainer went, as she states when she challenges you for the champion title that she decided to start over as a trainer "the right way."

Regardless, I'll always love her heartfelt apology to Lillie and reasoning for asking that Guzma be saved. "No one can make up for what they've done if they're gone."

Plumeria states in her introduction that she keeps Team Skull together, and perhaps surrounding herself with such pitiable people gave her a feeling of being needed and wanted that she didn't have beforehand.

Lusamine - Well, I assume you know the backstory as well, so I'll skip those parts. Tragic? Yes, but that makes her a weaker villain than say... Ghetsis as a result. It's nice to have a break from "World Domination" villains, but Lusamine as a mere "puppet victim" of the first Ultra Beasts just felt underwhelming in some aspects. Even her Pokemon Team reflects that, they're just generic Pokemon with no hint of kindness (even the classic Crobat or the likes of Togekiss in her case would have helped) or non-redemption (Frustration Hydreigon is the sole reason why Ghetsis is the best villain).
You don't think there was any cleverness in having her last pokemon in every battle be Bewear, a pokemon that hurts others by trying to love them?

Lusamine was a victim, but it would have helped if it was demonstrated that she was a "notable victim" than... "just another victim" in Nihilego's tuesday. The backstory presented to us via Lillie and Gladion wasn't sufficient and jarring game-differences when we access Poke Pelago further worsens that state.
I'm not sure what you're saying here about what wasn't sufficient about the backstory, but I do think it should be noted that my impression is that Lusamine was not "just another victim" but rather was quite an extraordinary one. I doubt anyone had ever been so consumed by the venom that they went off the deep end like Lusamine.

And it should be noted Nihilego itself did not really intend for anything bad to happen to anyone, using its venom like that is simply how it protects itself and by all accounts passing through the wormholes tends to put the Ultra Beasts in rather crazed states for a time. It couldn't have known Lusamine would get addicted to the venom and obsessed with it to that extent.

But he doesn't use the name Mohn, does he? As obvious as they might take it, I don't believe Mohn is ever directly said to be the father.
Well we know from the people at the Dimensional Research lab that there was a professor named Mohn and that he was heavily associated with Ultra Space research. We likewise know Lusamine's husband made breakthroughs in studying Ultra Space. We also know people who are trapped in Ultra Space for an extended time can have their memories heavily damaged (like Anabel), hence the idea that Mohn emerged from the wormhole at a later time without knowing much aside from his name, and unfortunately didn't meet up with anyone who recognized him before he went off to live on a remote Poke Pelago island.

But yeah, its not directly said but then neither was Silver being Giovanni's son, at least for the first few games.

I mean among other things, after kidapping Lillie she just disappears from both Climatic events of the game and just asks the player's help to save Guzma in a very downplayed scene.
Do you really think its downplayed? I thought it was pretty awesome how she just casually strolls in and tells the whole group of grunts to stand down before giving a surprisingly sincere apology and explanation for what has happened.

Also, given how much she hated the whole "kidnap Lillie" plan it makes some sense that she got away from Aether as soon as she could so she wouldn't have to face what was happening.
 
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diakyu

Well-Known Member
Saying Mohn isn't their father is ignoring that we all knew Gladion, Lusamine, and Lillie were family before the game came out because they all had similar features.

On the topic of the main story characters: Lillie is generic with her arc but it's very good by Pokemon standards lol, Hau is the best friendly rival this series has ever had since he's Barry's arc done better and with more to it, Gladion is interesting and his interactions with the others are fun. I also think there's more to Gladion than most give him credit for because he left before Lusamine really went off the deep end meaning he doesn't have Lillie's same stance but that is a topic for another day (very interesting he didn't go with Lillie and the player to save their mother). Kukui is the best and his I'm glad his wife found relevance in a main series game. Guzma is a awesome but just like Lusamine he's a victim. I would be very hesitant to say Plumeria was a bad guy (she likely thought Lillie did steal Cosmog and that she was doing good by stealing it back), she does just seem in it to help Guzma and the grunts. Lusamine is crazy, she was a threat to herself and those around her (specifically her children and Guzma at the end of the story). Pushed, perhaps unintentionally, by the Ultra Beasts the climatic end of Sun and Moon is so cool to me because it's about saving two people from themselves, Lusamine due to her obsession after the loss of her husband that was heightened by UB-01 and Guzma because his want to be recognized got him to follow a crazy lady into a portal to another dimension. It's almost like GF was making fun of the older antagonists by showing that their over the top ambitions would end in their own inevitable end.

Also I noticed something that had been bugging me. How did Gladion and Lillie find each other once Lillie escaped? We know they can communicate through long distance because Lillie had told Gladion about the player before they left Melemele since Lillie never met him at the hotel yet he knows the player's name. But how did they get to that point? The only way I can see it is that it was pure coincidence they met after Lillie escaped Paradise. It doesn't break the story or anything but I wish the diary mentioned it.

One cool thing I noticed is that Lillie isn't with Burnet at the Dimensional Research Center where you think she would be with Cosmog because being with Kukui, one of if not the strongest trainer in Alola before the player came around, is the safest place for her to be.

Also, who was on the right side of history when it came to believing Zinnia in ORAS? I knew she wasn't just some crazy person. JRPG rule of thumb, if a character says it and isn't outright proven wrong it's likely completely true.
 
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Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
Pushed, perhaps unintentionally, by the Ultra Beasts the climatic end of Sun and Moon is so cool to me because it's about saving two people from themselves, Lusamine due to her obsession after the loss of her husband that was heightened by UB-01 and Guzma because his want to be recognized got him to follow a crazy lady into a portal to another dimension. It's almost like GF was making fun of the older antagonists by showing that their over the top ambitions would end in their own inevitable end.
My thoughts exactly, I loved how the game's plot took a step back from the world-ending plots that have become common in the games and went back to a much more personal, small-scale story (relatively speaking, obviously big things still happened) like we had in gens one and two. Nothing wrong with save-the-world stories, but we've had quite a few in a row so it was nice to just have a "save two people trapped in another dimension and help fix a torn up family" type of story, followed by a "calm and capture dangerously panicked creatures from another dimension" postgame.

Also I noticed something that had been bugging me. How did Gladion and Lillie find each other once Lillie escaped? We know they can communicate through long distance because Lillie had told Gladion about the player before they left Melemele since Lillie never met him at the hotel yet he knows the player's name. But how did they get to that point? The only way I can see it is that it was pure coincidence they met after Lillie escaped Paradise. It doesn't break the story or anything but I wish the diary mentioned it.
I honestly myself never considered the possibility that she was the one who told Gladion (the person she wanted to meet in the hotel we later find out was Burnet). I always assumed it was Team Skull grunts that told him about the player character. After all:

1. Gladion had no idea that Lillie took Cosmog.
2. Lillie had never confronted him about leaving without her.

Both points point to them having had no interaction.

Indeed Lillie was so helpless on her own by her own admission that it seems unlikely she had any idea where Gladion was and hadn't really gone anywhere beyond the starting city of the game in the months since she moved in with Kukui.
 
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Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Well we know from the people at the Dimensional Research lab that there was a professor named Mohn and that he was heavily associated with Ultra Space research. We likewise know Lusamine's husband made breakthroughs in studying Ultra Space. We also know people who are trapped in Ultra Space for an extended time can have their memories heavily damaged (like Anabel), hence the idea that Mohn emerged from the wormhole at a later time without knowing much aside from his name, and unfortunately didn't meet up with anyone who recognized him before he went off to live on a remote Poke Pelago island.

But yeah, its not directly said but then neither was Silver being Giovanni's son, at least for the first few games.

I wasn't trying to say that Mohn wasn't father, I know that that is pretty much fact at this point, I was just confused because Aetius made it sound like it was directly stated, as opposed to strongly hinted.

Also, who was on the right side of history when it came to believing Zinnia in ORAS? I knew she wasn't just some crazy person. JRPG rule of thumb, if a character says it and isn't outright proven wrong it's likely completely true.

I sure was, and I for one and glad we have some solid evidence that she spoke the truth.
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
I thought Hau was a fine character/rival and developed fine. But then interpretations differ, for one I think the insecurities are not really supposed to be the main point. His attitude is not a facade but there is stuff behind it and he has some issues with going a bit too far but I think they resolved that by the end and I don't think it required that much focus because I didn't se eit as the main point.

That's an interesting point, but I do think they did intend for the character to develop over the course of the story. When Lillie gets kidnapped, he laments that he wasn't able to stop it and that's one of the reasons why he joins you and Gladion in trying to save her. So his desire to be strong is highlighted, but it's never truly shown how much he's grown from that low point and his personality remains the same as it did before, so despite the highlight of that low point being there, it's never utilized at all. If the point was to not have the character grow or grow subtlety, I think they missed the mark with him as he doesn't show as much in either category. Even earlier games kind of got that right as you can see nuances in things such as N always having an ever changing team in BW or Silver evolving his Crobat in GSCHGSS, so I think they could've done better with him.

Also, who was on the right side of history when it came to believing Zinnia in ORAS? I knew she wasn't just some crazy person. JRPG rule of thumb, if a character says it and isn't outright proven wrong it's likely completely true.

Well she was (there's no good reason behind her immediate option being to summon titans of destruction instead of stealing keystones first), it's just that she wasn't wrong in that instance. :p
 

diakyu

Well-Known Member
(the person she wanted to meet in the hotel we later find out was Burnet).
When was this? I don't recall that being mentioned when you met her for the first time.

Edit: Nevermind, found it. Must have blanked that entire scene at the ruins lol. Pretty odd though since the lab is right down the road and Lillie knows where the lab is unlike the hotel, Gladion just made more sense to me so I guess I just forgot.
 
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Aetius

Well-Known Member
But he doesn't use the name Mohn, does he? As obvious as they might take it, I don't believe Mohn is ever directly said to be the father.

If you look at the books in Burnet's lab, one of them will explicitly states that Mohn published a thesis on Ultra Wormholes, which is then stated by Gladion himself.
Besides Gladion resembles Mohn a lot, so there's that too. :D
Sorry, it's just that when I'm sure of something I state it as fact, without letting the other peson know the hints that made me think that way.
 
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goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
I wasn't trying to say that Mohn wasn't father, I know that that is pretty much fact at this point, I was just confused because Aetius made it sound like it was directly stated, as opposed to strongly hinted.



I sure was, and I for one and glad we have some solid evidence that she spoke the truth.
I'm still kinda suprised that her speaking the truth really came up at all. I never really got why her character or truth telling mattered in regards to alterate worlds. The whole thing still baffles me. It's not like she was ranting that she saw visions, is was brought up as passed down history couldn't that just be raised as doubt. Though I'd bring up that we had direct confirmation of other parts of the history through mega rayquaza and that they did have murals of said events to lend a bit more credence to it.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
If Stars ends up being a sequel like B2W2, you guys think Mohn will get his memories back and reunite with his family?
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
If you look at the books in Burnet's lab, one of them will explicitly states that Mohn published a thesis on Ultra Wormholes, which is then stated by Gladion himself.
Besides Gladion resembles Mohn a lot, so there's that too. :D
Sorry, it's just that when I'm sure of something I state it as fact, without letting the other peson know the hints that made me think that way.

Don't worry about it. You're right in saying they make it so obvious that it's pretty much fact, I was just left curious about you making it sound like it was directly stated.

I'm still kinda suprised that her speaking the truth really came up at all. I never really got why her character or truth telling mattered in regards to alterate worlds. The whole thing still baffles me. It's not like she was ranting that she saw visions, is was brought up as passed down history couldn't that just be raised as doubt. Though I'd bring up that we had direct confirmation of other parts of the history through mega rayquaza and that they did have murals of said events to lend a bit more credence to it.

I never really got it either. It was such a strange and unusual line for people to think it was just a throwaway.

If Stars ends up being a sequel like B2W2, you guys think Mohn will get his memories back and reunite with his family?

I would assume there would at least be some sort of subplot about either him getting his memories back or about his family finding him and having to convince him of who he really is.
 

Fulisha Light

Well-Known Member
My thoughts on Lillie's Character:

I find it strange how there's some people who find Lillie to be a good, well-written character. In probably the first half of the game and the ending scene, she was good and had plenty of chemistry with the cast.

However, her development right after Lusamine leaves with Nihilego is rather haphazardly added imo.
Things go to crap and her protecting Nebby ultimately failed, and after all this, her character completely flips over to being very overly positive and free that anything is possible because her mom is gone and needs to be saved.

I'd expect the proper character to be her having an "all is lost" moment, then gradually developing into being more positive and determined about actually doing something rather than running away like she did in the past, and then changing her outfit towards the end when she leaves for Kanto as the final end to her development, that she's no longer the same Lillie in the beginning.

Instead, we get her suddenly changing to having a "Z-powered form ™" that can do anything, and wanting to tell Lusamine something that boils down to just "you're terrible!" all with a comical, cute-moe mad face (>BT) instead of a serious expression fitting the current situation. Her previous development wasn't really enough for such a drastic change, there wasn't much build-up to her suddenly changing her look and being like, "I must tell my mother how terrible she is!" >BT

Lillie would've been perfect had this sudden development not have happened until the end (or at least with her confrontation with her mom). It comes across as rather bizarre. People could justify it to me as "her development happened as you interacted with her throughout the plot", but it really doesn't add up to how drastic and awkward it is (at least to me anyway) when you reach Poni.


I don't hate Lillie entirely, but I wish that certain parts of her character development in the plot were fixed so that they make more sense instead of looking as comical as Hau.
 
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