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General Character Discussion Thread

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jginz1

Shiny Hunter
Favorite character in the game is Gladion because of the awesome plot twist with his family being Lillie and Lusamine, I also like how he changes from being a total douchebag (almost like Silver) to being a thoughtful introvert.

Least Favorite character is Mina because she was the only trial captain who didn't have a planned trial. Also her preferred type didn't match the totem pokemon.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
It's a three way tie between the first three Kahunas for me. I like them all.
Hapu was boring as heck though..... I didn't like her. Glad she didn't get the honor of being an Elite Four member.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
I know this thread is more for developed character arcs, but I gotta say, my favourite underrated character of this game has gotta be Mina. She is like my Pokemon soulmate. She loves art, has a job to do but procrastinates it with her hobby, gets bored kind of easily, Wears casual clothing, has an awkward-but-optimistic talking style and uses a Ribombee. Like not only is that exactly what I'm like, but she became an enjoyable character in her small yet adorable appearances. Seeing her family in Seafolk village talk about her is also sweet, plus it actually gave her backstory. If Stars really is a sequel, they'd better add more scenes with Mina in.

Honestly, Mina bugged me. She was just too care-free for my tastes, and I just couldn't help but feel she needed to take her job more seriously. To make things worse, her lack of a trial and appearence during the Ultra Beast story for no apparent reason just made me feel liek she was forced into the game.

Least Favorite character is Mina because she was the only trial captain who didn't have a planned trial. Also her preferred type didn't match the totem pokemon.

To be fair, the Dragon trial wasn't her trials. She didn't have a trial of her own yet, and the Dragon trial was an ancient trial that had run autonomously ever since the beginning of the trial system.
 

goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
Possibly autonomous, I kinda got the impression that it was semi autonomous or at the very least that the kahuna and captain checked up on it on occasion. Seems to fit with what we got with Mina,ect. (And Fairy type could be seen as part of that with it's resistance and immunity to the trial pokemon)
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Possibly autonomous, I kinda got the impression that it was semi autonomous or at the very least that the kahuna and captain checked up on it on occasion. Seems to fit with what we got with Mina,ect. (And Fairy type could be seen as part of that with it's resistance and immunity to the trial pokemon)

I don't know, when you meet Mina, she specifically talks about how she still has to figure out what her trial is going to be, which tells us that she is in the process of getting her own trial, meaning that the Dragon trial is not hers. Maybe the Kahuna might have something to do with it, but there really wasn't any indication that there's anyone to oversee the trial in any way, especially considering that Hapu doesn't show up until after you've completed the trial.
 

goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
I wasn't trying to say it was her trial in the same way as the other captains or that it needed the same level of supervision/training just that it could be an additional duty of the trainers of Poni. (And as for Hapu only showing up before and after, I'm not talkng about them walking us through the trial) The indications for me was just how the region seemed to be set up and Mina being made captain in the first place as well as just the logic of having trial captains (and kahunas) in the first place especially in a pretty much uninhabited (as in permanent residents) island, stuff can happen and it makes sense to have a postion filled even if they can have another trial.
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
I had the impression the Dragon trial had more or less been running without any human maintenance for its entire existence, or at least after the human who started it had retired or passed away. This is due to the remoteness its location (at the end of Vast Poni Canyon, itself a remote area) and that the Pokémon you battle in that trial seem to themselves know what to do for the trial. If there's any maintenance, I'd say it's done by the Kommo-o Totem with its assistants, well, assisting.

Mina, meanwhile, is doing her own thing completely independent of the Dragon trial but hasn't yet figured out what to do. They just happen to both be in Vast Poni Canyon. (I'm certain Mina will move her trial elsewhere, though I have no clue where, as there's nothing Fairy-like on Poni Island.)
 

Professor Maple

Pokemon prof.
Loved the characters.
Gladion was AWESOME, his connection to type: null is cool
Lillie was really cool to. Was not expecting the costume change, but loved it!
The fact that i couldn't visit her at aether made me sad though.
Hau was cool in his own way. My favorite part was when he pretended to frown.
Was not expecting lusamine to be that insane, but thought it was cool.

Also anyone else think that lusamine either purposely or subconsciously dressed Lillie up like UB-01?
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Also anyone else think that lusamine either purposely or subconsciously dressed Lillie up like UB-01?

I'm assuming that her obsession over the Ultra Beasts and of dressing her children up in specific ways led to her dressing Lillie up like that. Likely she also dressed herself up like Phermosa. That's really the only way to explain why the two characters look so much like Ultra Beasts.

Honestly, I was kind of disappointed that there wasn't some sort of connection between the characters and the Ultra Beasts. There was certainly a red herring there.
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
Honestly, I was kind of disappointed that there wasn't some sort of connection between the characters and the Ultra Beasts. There was certainly a red herring there.

It's possible that the Ultra Beasts were going to play a bigger role in the story but it was removed for time and/or budget reasons.

I mean, that cutscene shows the Tapus and Kahunas engaging the Ultra Beasts...then later in the game, the Kahunas and Tapus are just fine with the Ultra Beasts nowhere in sight. The implication is that the Tapus and Kahunas collectively defeated all of the Ultra Beasts, but the fact remains that plot point happens completely offscreen after the engagements and that no one ever seems to speak about it except Lillie and Lusamine, who are far from all of them.
 

goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
It's possible that the Ultra Beasts were going to play a bigger role in the story but it was removed for time and/or budget reasons.

I mean, that cutscene shows the Tapus and Kahunas engaging the Ultra Beasts...then later in the game, the Kahunas and Tapus are just fine with the Ultra Beasts nowhere in sight. The implication is that the Tapus and Kahunas collectively defeated all of the Ultra Beasts, but the fact remains that plot point happens completely offscreen after the engagements and that no one ever seems to speak about it except Lillie and Lusamine, who are far from all of them.
The tapus and kahuna's managed to drive them off or just put up enough of the fight for the UBs to just move on is my take. And Pokemon rarely changes past trianers dialogue and honestly having it just be optional dialogue or having a previous kahuna come to us right after just seems awkward. I thought the way they handled it was fine, and added a small but nice bit to Hapu's character. When she becomes Kahuna she mentions fighting what is presumably Guzzlord with Tapi Fini saying she didn't stand a chance. (but then it is the highest level Ub regardless of it's stat placement and Hapu is junior to the others, so not sure about how the other kahuna's fared) I guess guzzlord either took enough damage to leave or just decided to go eat things. I don't think any fallers were in the area so they could act a bit differently. (Summoning them might have agaited them as well but only temporarily)

Edit: I also think she alludes to the fight when you talk to her beforehand as well, but don't have time to check right now.
 
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It's possible that the Ultra Beasts were going to play a bigger role in the story but it was removed for time and/or budget reasons.

I mean, that cutscene shows the Tapus and Kahunas engaging the Ultra Beasts...then later in the game, the Kahunas and Tapus are just fine with the Ultra Beasts nowhere in sight. The implication is that the Tapus and Kahunas collectively defeated all of the Ultra Beasts, but the fact remains that plot point happens completely offscreen after the engagements and that no one ever seems to speak about it except Lillie and Lusamine, who are far from all of them.

I think that it's supposed to reflect on how the player isn't the only strong trainer around. We wanted elite four-ish characters to finally do something, and we got it.
 

YonaNoveau

Well-Known Member
I'm assuming that her obsession over the Ultra Beasts and of dressing her children up in specific ways led to her dressing Lillie up like that. Likely she also dressed herself up like Phermosa. That's really the only way to explain why the two characters look so much like Ultra Beasts.

Honestly, I was kind of disappointed that there wasn't some sort of connection between the characters and the Ultra Beasts. There was certainly a red herring there.

It wasn't outright stated but it was very heavily implied. Remember Lillie and Gladion said at different points how Lusamine kept controlling every aspect of their lives, Lillie at the beginning of the game even says she never got to chose her own clothes as her mom always picked them for her, meaning her Nihilego like dress was chosen by Lusamine.

Not really complaining here... just letting out some thoughts regarding the UBs, Long Post Ahead:

Yeah, I was also a bit disappointed on how the Ultra Beasts were handled. Mostly all the red herrings regarding possible connections between lookalikes such as Nihilego and Lillie or Pheromosa and Lusamine as well. Essentially, disappointed that they just turned out to be different dimension lovecraft esque evil pokemon. I know we fans read too much into context but still, I think just turning them into Pokemon clashes two ways: one it kind of kills the unique feel they had before given now you can train them and tame them just like anything else, and two, their whole "evil and destructive" nature. I know they are meant to clash in every sense with Pokemons in general, but it feels off that if in the end they decided to make the UBs Pokemon they kind of went against the "rule" that there are no evil pokemon, well they aren't evil in the dry sense of the word, but they are stated repeatedly to be violent and destructive and the fact they actually kill people on purpouse.

I dunno if I explain myself: the weird in between they went with feels awkward... they aren't outside enough to not be treated like pokemon (unique fights, uncatchable or just a completely different treatment), but while they went with similitudes, they still made them chaotic and destructive and just way too different to feel the familiarity you feel with regular pokemon. Or perhaps is just a personal thing... as I really don't feel like the whole lovecraftian beings really fit into Pokemon universe (I mean, it can work for specific super powerful beings such as cases legendarias like Girantina), and the very dark background it gives to the whole adventure, kind of overshadowing the main adventure and plot with a darker implications (in a "sure, you are the champ and saved Lusamine, but there are still some crazy monsters around and there's a whole dimension of them breaching any time"). I guess it's just a thing of taste, it's kinda weird given I don't dislike dark or horror stories, I mean... I am a big fan of Berserk and Silent Hill. I just feel that that spin doesn't mesh well with Pokemon which has a lighthearted feel as part of its charm and the darker turns are specific events with the villiains rather than the universe being a dark place. The whole "evil alien monster species from another dimension" just clashes too much but not enough with the whole idea you can still catch and train/pet them like any other pokemon, kinda pretending they are just another pokemon.

Also doesn't help how unadressed they went the whole story. I mean, sure the contact with Nihilego was what started everything, but it didn't go beyond that, we know there's a whole dimension of those things and a whole species and the whole plot with the villiain was over small contact with what it seems a few specimens and the trip to the Ultra Dimension was two screens inside what seemed to be a cave. Despite many beasts being released they are essentiallly bonus bosses, not doing nothing save for Buzzwole/Pheromosa going against Hala. My point is... they felt so unadressed despite everything, they cast a huge shadow over everything but not in a mysterious engaging way, but also a way that feels that overshadows what happened in the game and is part of a larger metaplot.

I really would have rathered that UBs were not Pokemon altogether, but different beings entirely. I really liked the Chimera Theory that was around before the game release which stated that some characters were artificially made UBs, such as Lillie -> Nihilego, Lusamine -> Pheromosa, Our Boy Guzma -> Xurtree, etc. The alien aspect would have meshed better with everything.

Then again, these are just my thoughts and feelings on the issue, nothing else. And don't get me wrong, I don't hate the Ultra Beasts or anything and I am sure they'll grow on me with time as we learn more about them.


On a more trivial note: Anyone else thinks Lillie's second outfit looks like a tennis uniform?
 
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Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
On a more trivial note: Anyone else thinks Lillie's second outfit looks like a tennis uniform?

When Lillie first changed and called it her "Z-Powered Form," my first comments was apparently Lillie thinks that tennis players have special Z-Powers. So yes, I thought so too. Honestly, I liked her design better before the change, but it was good for the story, so I didn't care that much.

By the way, I mostly agree with your Ultra Beast rant. I don't necessarily mind the Lovecraftian theme going on with them, I actually quite like them, but I do agree that it was lame to just make them Pokemon in the end and that they were extremely underused.
 

bushie

Well-Known Member
how did everyone feel about hau. He didn't feel like a rival to me
 

Azery

Well-Known Member
how did everyone feel about hau. He didn't feel like a rival to me

I feel indifferent towards Hau as a rival. He didn't exactly fufil that role well.
But here's what I think about him as a character; With the player, Hau doesn't really standout. Sure his reactions to you being a dick to him are absolutely hillarious but he's kinda eh there. His interactions with Gladion are great however. They clash well with eachother and I do feel like they were made to be foils to one another. They bounce off each other well and I found that to be great.

He also wrecked me on Ula Ula with his surprise Raichu. **** that thing...
 
I rather liked him. He had some hilarious moments and felt like a ray of sunshine. Of course though, I did tease him at a couple points, purely because the reactions were golden.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
how did everyone feel about hau. He didn't feel like a rival to me

To me he felt like about as much of a rival as he was capable of being. You have to keep in mind that the Island Trials aren't a competitive thing, and so his status as rival was more his title than what he actually was. But even then, he showed a relatively competitive desire to beat you. And that was only made stronger once you and Hau were true rivals over being the first Champion.

But like Hugh (and sort of Silver, I suppose, but it wasn't emphasized all that much), he was a character whose status as your rival was just one part of what he was about.
 

YonaNoveau

Well-Known Member
Yeah, Hau was for the most part your BFF whose rivalry with you was one part of it and even then it was in a friendly way. At first I didn't like how he felt he was just there, but glad how as the game went on he became more proactive and involved with the main events, especially loved teaming with him and Gladion on the Aether Base Assault, for me that was the game's highlight when it came to plot, even more than the final battle with Lusamine.
 

Kingudora

My favourite
Lusamine is easily one of the most tragic, if not the most tragic pokemon character. Make no mistake, the things she did were horrible and she will have to take responsibility to make amends. The verbal abuse she directed towards Lillie I never thought I would see in a pokémon game.

But wow, Lusamine's circumstances were really horrible.

In the past

She inherited a large science foundation from her father, sharing his love and desire to protect weak and otherwise endangered pokemon.

Mohn, who was Lusamine's husband, worked on a side project about Ultra Wormholes. Very different from their typical ecological research, but necessary to learn about the Ultra Beasts, which continued to threathen both humans and pokemon.

Disaster strikes

However, one day one of Mohn's experiments went wrong and he was sucked into a wormhole. He left nothing behind except his research notes and a Cosmog.

Lusamine was devastated. Upset with grief, she took over his research, determined to found out what happened to her husband. She would never be the same after this, but at this point she was a far cry from what she would turn into. It was presumably at the same time as Aether started working on creating Type: Null, for her to take "revenge" on the Ultra Beasts.

However, as her research continued, she came in contact more and more times with Nihilego. This was where the downward spiral really started to happen.

Nihilego, not even once

Before we continue, we have to talk about Nihilego. From what we know about Nihilego and its neurotoxin;

1. It makes you feel amazing and like you can do anything.

2. It is probably highly addictive, largely because of point 1.

3. It removes your inhibitions and affects your behaviour and personality.

Point 3 is very dangerous, because removing your inhibitions means that you are removing your rationality.

Someone had this as an example: what would happen to a stereotypical office worker whose greatest desire is to get promoted, if influenced by Nihilego?
First he would get highly productive, at an unnatural level. His body probably would get burned out but the toxin makes him feel fine. Due to the parasitic nature of Nihilego, the reason why he wanted the promotion in the first place will become warped and turn into something that would benefit Nihilego instead. But what would happen if he doesn't get promoted anyway? His dampened inhibitions would lead to him to act upon the irrational thoughts that would "help" him to get promoted. Such as sabotaging for his co-workers or boss, possibly even going so far to outright killing them. Because at that point, any action that will get him promoted somehow will seem sound.

Lusamine's down-ward spiral

And this is what happened to Lusamine. Her research focused less and less on finding her husband, and more on the Ultra Beasts themselves. I wonder if she maybe at some point thought that they might help her?

Her ideals of beauty and ambition to protect and preserve pokemon became warped. She started to cryonically freeze the pokemon she loved and cared about so much. That way their "beauty" would never be tarnished and be "safe" forever! Clearly!

Similarly, her kids started to become a nuisance to her. They were a distraction in her attempts to connect with the Ultra Beasts. They couldn't help her, thus were not important and "ugly". Lusamine presumably even ordered Lillie to dress up to look like the likeness of Nihilego, to be able to stand her.
This eventually turn into an outright rejection of her kids, feeling betrayed when they run away with Cosmog and Type: Null respectively.

When you meet her first time in-game, she is just a shell of her old self. She still loves all pokemon (but *just more so* if they're ultra beasts). But it doesn't take long until you notice the cracks in the facade.

When you meet her in the Ultra Space, she is at the end of the disaster spiral. At this point, the toxins have clouded her mind so much that only thing she cares about is Nihilego. She has finally entered Ultra Space, but the reason she wanted reach it in the first place is all gone. Mohn, her kids, Pokémon, even the world she came from.. none of that matter anymore to her, only Nihilego. When you and Lillie confront her the final time, she hits rock-bottom by merging with Nihilego. At this point, she is not even a person anymore, she is more or less a part of Nihilego.

This would probably been the end for Lusamine, if she had not been saved by Nebby (and suffer through probably the most rough start of a de-tox treatment ever).

The aftermath

After this point, what awaits her is the long and painful recovery from the toxins along with slowly realizing all the things she has done (involuntarily) the last couple years of her life. All things she cared about before, along with her own self, suffered because of her own actions. She had turned the Aether Foundation into something she and her father would never have allowed to, hired Team Skull to actively hurt and abuse Pokémon, she disowned and abused her beloved kids, forcibly froze her pokémon, tortured Cosmog for her own end.

What I find extra tragic is the fact is that the Nihilego didn't affect Lusamine out of any malicious intent. In fact, they seem mostly unaware of their neurotoxin and what it does. Unlike many other parasites, it doesn't infect hosts because of personal gain (like sustenance) but as a self-defense mechanism. It is just content to gain extra protection and care from something or someone.

So all this happened in Sun/Moon not because of some evil being. It was just a desperate and hurt Lusamine encountering confused and afraid Nihilego, acting on self-defense instinct. And neither of them were aware what the effects would be.

Tl;dr

Lusamine was once a happy and loving woman, loses her husband in freak wormhole accident. Desperate, she takes over his research. During this she encounters Nihilego, gets intoxicated with its highly dangerous neurotoxin and begins to change in personality. Becomes increasingly obsessed with Ultra beasts and in the process everything she cared for suffers because of her actions. Eventually, after entering Ultra Space and losing so much of her own self, she only cares about Nihilego and decides to merge with one.

Lillie, Main Character and Nebby intervene, with Nebby forcibly blasting Lusamine loose. After having most of the neurotoxins removed, she has to deal with the slow realiazations of all the horrible she thing has done while still trying to recover from the toxins.

And she doesn't even know that Mohn is still alive.
 
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