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General Chat Thread - Come to #spp-misc on Discord! https://discord.gg/3u9nKEa

The Admiral

solid state survivor
I've mentioned that Umineko is an amazing story, but isn't the anime maladapted, half-complete garbage? Another is also maybe my least favorite anime I've ever watched. Higurashi is good, though.
The Umineko anime is pretty famous for being crap, yes. Same with Another, as far as I can tell; I don't know anybody who actually likes it.
 

Pikachu Fan Number Nine

Don't Mess wit Texas
Jill Messick committed suicide today. She was a film production executive at Miramax during the time they got the rights to release new Pokemon movies stateside.
 

Hunter Zolomon

Into the Shadows
Staff member
Moderator
We have a lot of snow outside. I'm just ready for spring to get here. I don't mind snow on Christmas Day, but other than that it's not fun to deal with. Especially when you live in the State Capital. There's a lot of imbecile drivers that reside here.
 

Tiffo

Geeky Pokemon Master
Wow snow, we haven't had that in a while. It hailed for a solid 5 minutes earlier today though, so I guess that's a good start?
 
I saw the hailstorm as it started since I was starting a new drawing at the time. I called my sister over and we watched it, it was pretty neat.

Also I saw people further up were talking about tv shows. Red Dwarf’s a pretty good one if you want comedy mindf*ck with some actual genuinely good morals in there.
 

GrizzlyB

Confused and Dazed
The Umineko anime is pretty famous for being crap, yes. Same with Another, as far as I can tell; I don't know anybody who actually likes it.
On MyAnimeList, I think Another actually scores pretty well. Granted, it's MAL, but still. I only watched it because P.A. Works made a lot of my other favorite anime, but they either cut a crapload of material or the original novel was garbage, because the "curse" literally makes up whatever rules it wants to make the plot work. I can't stand crap like that. I can't imagine it being appealing to anyone unless they're, like, way in to animated gore.

Honestly, though, I think pacing is the #1 thing that ruins animes for me. You have the long runners where they spend half a dozen episodes charging up their attacks or getting wrapped up in some banal filler cooking competition or something, but then you also have others that rush through progression so much that it feels artificial (Angel Beats is probably the best example of the latter for me -- I never even finished it because I thought the material was really good, but it was so rushed that I felt like I was watching a parade of recap episodes or something. I resolved to wait for the VN adaptation to come out which has been... slow going, apparently).

I don't know why I keep coming back here every few months.
Is it because it's the only place you'll find GrizzlyB™ brand posts?
 

The Admiral

solid state survivor
So, a new Hatoful Boyfriend game is on the way, and apparently a bunch of people in one of the gaming discords I'm in are like "dafuq" about it -- a response that confounds me in [current_year_argument].

On MyAnimeList, I think Another actually scores pretty well. Granted, it's MAL, but still. I only watched it because P.A. Works made a lot of my other favorite anime, but they either cut a crapload of material or the original novel was garbage, because the "curse" literally makes up whatever rules it wants to make the plot work. I can't stand crap like that. I can't imagine it being appealing to anyone unless they're, like, way in to animated gore.
Yeah, I can't claim to know a lot about it, but a lot of MAL users are the "basic *****" tier of anime fan. Like, they have the decency to not put SAO in the top list, I guess, but I also looked and, for all the Gintama series at the top of the list, most of those have very few people watching them compared to things like FMA Brotherhood or Steins;Gate. The top list is a poor metric, too.

Then again, after logging in, apparently a lot of people are highly anticipating the next Attack on Titan season. Because they have no ****in' taste whatsoever.

Gintama is pretty legit, though.

Honestly, though, I think pacing is the #1 thing that ruins animes for me. You have the long runners where they spend half a dozen episodes charging up their attacks or getting wrapped up in some banal filler cooking competition or something, but then you also have others that rush through progression so much that it feels artificial (Angel Beats is probably the best example of the latter for me -- I never even finished it because I thought the material was really good, but it was so rushed that I felt like I was watching a parade of recap episodes or something. I resolved to wait for the VN adaptation to come out which has been... slow going, apparently).
This is definitely a huge problem, re: pacing in anime just in general. I feel like writers, especially in recent shows, have no idea what we do and do not want details on, either, which just adds to it.
 

bobjr

EVERYONE WANTS THE BIG CHAIR MEG
Staff member
Moderator
Dating Sims are somehow getting more and more popular. It could be the one industry millenials won't kill.
 

Scammel

Well-Known Member
On MyAnimeList, I think Another actually scores pretty well. Granted, it's MAL, but still. I only watched it because P.A. Works made a lot of my other favorite anime, but they either cut a crapload of material or the original novel was garbage, because the "curse" literally makes up whatever rules it wants to make the plot work. I can't stand crap like that. I can't imagine it being appealing to anyone unless they're, like, way in to animated gore.
Another has a pretty brilliant core premise, utterly ruined by the actions of the characters. Truly effective horror has believable people reacting as rationally as they can to a situation they have no power over - Another would work so much better if the entire cast wasn't already aware that the curse was completely localised to a single class, in a single school, in a single town (to say nothing of the character capable of ending the mystery from day one!).

Then again, after logging in, apparently a lot of people are highly anticipating the next Attack on Titan season. Because they have no ****in' taste whatsoever.
Thank Christ, it's not just me then. AoT is an absolutely prime example of a series that substitutes scale for emotional weight.
 
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GrizzlyB

Confused and Dazed
So, a new Hatoful Boyfriend game is on the way, and apparently a bunch of people in one of the gaming discords I'm in are like "dafuq" about it -- a response that confounds me in [current_year_argument].
I've heard about it. What is it, exactly? I think I saw it described as a pigeon dating sim, but like... are you (player character) a pigeon, or what's going on there?

Yeah, I can't claim to know a lot about it, but a lot of MAL users are the "basic *****" tier of anime fan. Like, they have the decency to not put SAO in the top list, I guess, but I also looked and, for all the Gintama series at the top of the list, most of those have very few people watching them compared to things like FMA Brotherhood or Steins;Gate. The top list is a poor metric, too.

Then again, after logging in, apparently a lot of people are highly anticipating the next Attack on Titan season. Because they have no ****in' taste whatsoever.

Gintama is pretty legit, though.
Seems to me that most anime fans are **** tier, which I guess would then also hold true on MAL. I remember making a comment somewhere (imgur, I think? Some crap site) about Naruto/Bleach being bad anime, and I was downvoted to ****. I still haven't watched Steins;Gate or Gintama (want to play the VN for S;G, and I don't know if I should start with the manga Gintama), but Brotherhood, while good, seems pretty overwatched/overrated, since it's held up as one of the best. Of course, it's nearly 100% faithful to the manga, which, you'd think would be some sort of hint for producers. (as you can tell, I'm a stickler about how originals and their adaptations compare)

This is definitely a huge problem, re: pacing in anime just in general. I feel like writers, especially in recent shows, have no idea what we do and do not want details on, either, which just adds to it.
Yeah, I don't know if it's just animes or what. Most of the Western shows/movies I watch are comedies, so their stories don't need to necessarily 100% work. But for things that want you to take their story seriously, it is (or at least should be) a pretty big bugaboo for people. I feel like several newer games I've played have had this problem, too. We're talking very generally here, so it's hard to get too specific, but I also feel like a lot of stories are too centered on the main character(s) (so, a lot of development about them, maybe not so much for other characters, the world, the plot, etc.). Which sucks for me, since I'm often more compelled by random side characters than I am the main ones.

Dating Sims are somehow getting more and more popular. It could be the one industry millenials won't kill.
I'm confident we'll find a way.

Another has a pretty brilliant core premise, utterly ruined by the actions of the characters. Truly effective horror has believable people reacting as rationally as they can to a situation hey have no power over - Another would work so much better if the entire cast wasn't already aware that the curse was completely localised to a single class, in a single school, in a single town (to say nothing of the character capable of ending the mystery from day one!).
I was unsure if just the adaptation was bad or if the original was, too, but when you put it that way, it's pretty obvious. Forget everything bad about the plot for a second, wasn't the curse only supposed to kill students and their families while they were still in the town? And they all know it? If so, skipping town for a year would be by far the rational reaction -- to say nothing of continuing to use the class in the first place.
 
So, a new Hatoful Boyfriend game is on the way, and apparently a bunch of people in one of the gaming discords I'm in are like "dafuq" about it -- a response that confounds me in [current_year_argument].
I heard the words “new Hatoful Boyfriend game” and I have arrived.

*deep breath*

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES- *continues on in Daniel Bryan-esque fashion*

I can easily see the “dafuq” response but likewise I’m sitting here balls-deep into the series celebrating my boys returning. Where did you hear about it?

Dating Sims are somehow getting more and more popular. It could be the one industry millenials won't kill.
A few small channels I follow on YouTube (namely AGirlAndAGame, The Friendly Senpai, HusbandoGoddess and Madam Sharky) play and review dating sims and visual novels, and I can definitely see a very slow but sure increase in their subscription counts as of late. They’re some of the few people on the site to consistently make videos on visual novels (with the odd bit of other content too of course), and I think having channels that do that alone can help people get to know what the genre can offer. Not to mention various parodies and spins on the genre (Dream Daddy, Doki Doki Literature Club and Hatoful Boyfriend itself) giving it some more limelight. I do think that exposure in YouTube is in effect of the big reasons for why it’s slowly gaining popularity, although I can’t be sure.

But by heck the millenials are sure gonna “kill” it somehow, even when we’re barely aware of it naively playing our pigeon dating sims.

I've heard about it. What is it, exactly? I think I saw it described as a pigeon dating sim, but like... are you (player character) a pigeon, or what's going on there?
Ah... this will be hard to go through without me sounding like a total nutcase.

So yes the MC is a human (logical reason given in-game that actually works) and there are nine love interests - 8 male, 1 female, all birds, plus the “no love interest” bad end, a bonus route and an epilogue. Only five of those routes have different ends (four are extended versions of those ends if you fit a certain criteria and all variants of all routes are needed to get the epilogue) and one is a game-over (you get no achievement for it and it isn’t required for the epilogue). The bonus route completely loses the idea of the game being a dating sim and is often one of the most praised parts of the series for giving depth and emotion to such a weird and zany world. It’s set in a school in Japan where the MC is the only human (and the only female, logical reason given) to be attending, and for the most part it’s just a cute parody game with intelligent birds being dumb but fully characterised in the process, but then it takes a turn for the (haha not saying spoilers) when the bonus route comes along.

There’s a sequel too, that this time dropped the dating sim aspect to become more of a simple visual novel with a few choices here and there. It’s less of a full game and more of a VN sequel for all of the fans to help solve some of the hanging plot threads from the first game. It does take place in a parallel universe where the bonus route doesn’t happen, but it makes sense considering how the previous game ends. The sequel has four chapters, six bonus episodes and a “radio show” of sorts (which I’m pretty sure was made so that the creator could answer fan’s questions using the characters). It does have a Christmas theme in the first part but it doesn’t dominate the plot of the rest so it’s pretty much an all-year-rounder game.

And now we have another sequel and I am dying.
 
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The Admiral

solid state survivor
I've heard about it. What is it, exactly? I think I saw it described as a pigeon dating sim, but like... are you (player character) a pigeon, or what's going on there?
Above poster has this covered. You're a human and you date birds. It's less 'cloaca time' and more 'turns out there is more to this and it is rather depressing', though, which is the part that a lot of people don't get, and I think that part of it is that a lot of people think "VN/dating sim = porn"

Seems to me that most anime fans are **** tier, which I guess would then also hold true on MAL. I remember making a comment somewhere (imgur, I think? Some crap site) about Naruto/Bleach being bad anime, and I was downvoted to ****. I still haven't watched Steins;Gate or Gintama (want to play the VN for S;G, and I don't know if I should start with the manga Gintama), but Brotherhood, while good, seems pretty overwatched/overrated, since it's held up as one of the best. Of course, it's nearly 100% faithful to the manga, which, you'd think would be some sort of hint for producers. (as you can tell, I'm a stickler about how originals and their adaptations compare)
As far as Gintama goes... I have not read the manga but I think some parts get adapted in a weird order since the arcs are presented in an episodic nature. It's well worth reading/watching when you get around to it.

Yeah, I don't know if it's just animes or what. Most of the Western shows/movies I watch are comedies, so their stories don't need to necessarily 100% work. But for things that want you to take their story seriously, it is (or at least should be) a pretty big bugaboo for people. I feel like several newer games I've played have had this problem, too. We're talking very generally here, so it's hard to get too specific, but I also feel like a lot of stories are too centered on the main character(s) (so, a lot of development about them, maybe not so much for other characters, the world, the plot, etc.). Which sucks for me, since I'm often more compelled by random side characters than I am the main ones.
Oh yeah. Huge issue with a lot of stuff. As ever, I feel like NieR:Automata did this right, game-wise, but not much else in recent memory. If a plot doesn't screw pacing up, it'll screw something else up.

Thank Christ, it's not just me then. AoT is an absolutely prime example of a series that substitutes scale for emotional weight.
This is a pretty good way of pinning down the issue with it. Millions of years ago, someone I knew on another forum put it this way:
little to no continuity and very little made sense within the spectrum of it's own universe. How the hell in 100 years did humans go back to medieval times and learn to kill these things A VERY SPECIFIC WAY when they have one frame tournament level counters? It's nothing but shock value, also, it's a zombie apocolypse show in disguise. Show is all kinds of stupid.
I remember that after about five years; alarming. Attack on Titan is also aesthetically one of the worst things I've ever seen, and I've watched more than a few of Jim Sterling's Steam Greenlight/Steam Direct videos, and most of those games look like crap rather unsurprisingly.

I heard the words “new Hatoful Boyfriend game” and I have arrived.

*deep breath*

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES- *continues on in Daniel Bryan-esque fashion*

I can easily see the “dafuq” response but likewise I’m sitting here balls-deep into the series celebrating my boys returning. Where did you hear about it?
So, hell and high water later, here's what I got. I think that, like, actual game news sites haven't picked up on it yet. /shrug

I suppose that I am really over defensive about people who immediately think dating sims have to be porn and the like, which I think is responsible for a lot of the severity of the responses people have to these games. Grumble grumble.
 
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So, hell and high water later, here's what I got. I think that, like, actual game news sites haven't picked up on it yet. /shrug
*reads post*

*cue the lots dying and yes chanting from earlier*

I cannot wait for this. Gonna have to avoid the Hatoful community while the game is untranslated but once we get a localisation I will be onto this.

I suppose that I am really over defensive about people who immediately think dating sims have to be porn and the like, which I think is responsible for a lot of the severity of the responses people have to these games. Grumble grumble.
There’s a reason why I’m only fully open about my love for Amnesia, Hatoful Boyfriend and A Foretold Affair (plus numerous non-romance VNs) Online and not real life. Even when I was in school I was kind of open about my love for Pokemon and I got bullied for that, so them learning I had a love for Romance VNs would’ve killed me even further than school did anyway.

Not to mention, there are only a few channels (the ones I listed above, plus maybe that one channel that dubbed Hatoful) I have found that consistently upload content that relates to VNs and Romance VNs/Dating Sims, and although there are channels I follow that have uploaded content from Romance VNs (that aren’t Dream Daddy, which tbh I found didn’t really give VNs in general more of a fandom anyway), they’ve never done a full playthrough. In Hatoful’s case, most people drop it after 3~4 routes typically due to deciding that enough is enough and they won’t get anything else out of the game, when the big part that everyone tends to hail as the crowning moment of awesome for the entire game is reached by completing all of the routes. In Amnesia’s case, I do think there’s a partial “Japanese culture alienation” thing about it (people who I’ve seen play it have complained that they tend to stay away from the Eastern stuff because the of culture shift being so dramatic), but then there’s also the fact that on paper it seems so generic that at most maybe one YouTuber will pick it, try a route then leave it at that (PressHeartToContinue did that I think). In A Foretold Affair’s case, it’s obscure even in the VN fandom, and I only found it through sheer luck that one of the YouTubers I follow was sent a Steam key for it, so that ones kind of obvious I guess.

But yeah, I do wish these kinda games got some more exposure, and that people wouldn’t bash others for liking them.
 

THRILLHO

nothin' at all
anime is bad

edit: hello everyone
 
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The Admiral

solid state survivor
Yeah, but like

making an effort is for losers, amirite
 
My sister can recommend a ton of anime (and also non-recommend quite few ehhhh ones), but since I’m more of a gamer I can recommend a solid two (three if you count my highly unpopular opinion that the Danganronpa anime is pretty good) anime that I have seen. One is Durarara (it’s a kind of slice-of-life... fantasy... gang story... thing... set in Ikebukuro) and The Devil is a Part-Timer (comedy about Satan working at McDonalds, while the hero destined to defeat him is forced to be an office worker or smthn like that). I haven’t really watched much else except Amnesia, and everyone knows my opinion on that one... (short version: the game is goddamn beautiful and amazing, the anime botched it completely minus the OVA, art style and soundtrack).
 

The Admiral

solid state survivor
I can recommend one anime under the caveat that it is utterly heart-wrenching and one other under the caveat that it's very humor heavy and occasionally really immature (those being Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket and Gintama respectively), suggest you steer well clear of a fair handful of things, and otherwise just say that I don't know how much other **** I like will appeal to a wide-ish audience and that the medium is full to bursting with wasted potential, thanks in no small part to Standardized Capitalist Wankery in a very similar way to how a lot of games get screwed up in various forms and fashions.
 
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