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General Discussion & Speculation Thread

Tuoko

Well-Known Member
Why would the main series games even have microtransactions, though? They're not free games, so you don't have to worry about that ever happening. Only thing they could really do is start including DLC.
 

Team Volt Grunt

Pokémon Collector
Nintendo should really consider putting in more post game content. Not every Pokemon player plays competitively, you know.
I think you completely missed the point of my post.

First they bind transferring Pokemon to the next generation to the paid service Pokemon Bank and give out heaps of BP through it, then they don't put the National Dex into the latest main series games and make it exclusive to Pokemon Bank. It's like they are testing the waters...

I really hope they don't take this any further and put the National Dex back in...
I don't understand anyone that doesn't appreciate Pokemon Bank. Yes, it has its flaws (no held items and no back-and-forth transferring across generations), but it is a great companion to the Pokemon games. It makes it so easy to collect, store, organize, and transfer Pokemon between all of your games. $5 is a great price for the ease of quickly and safely storing and transferring a large number of Pokemon. Not to mention all the BP and their ability to send gift Pokemon through it.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Huh, very interested by the teaser in this new trailer. I realize most people probably know what's actually going on due to spoilers, so I'm just going to go ahead and speculate by myself. If you have already spoiled yourself, please respect that I do not wished to be spoiled and neither confirm or deny this post. If you haven't been spoiled, feel free to respond.

This would seem to indeed confirm that the form of light on the covers is in fact a form of Necrozma, and it does so in a way that justifies it perfectly. My issue with that theory has always been that this new, presumably ultimate, form of Necrozma would completely render the other Necrozma forms obsolete and leave the player with no reason to use them, and seeing how the forms we've already seen are the cover Pokémon, I doubt Game Freak would want them overshadowed by something else. But, being an in-battle transformation, akin to Mega Evolution or Zygarde Complete, works perfectly. This way you still have to use the first two forms in order to use the third. It still kind of overshadows the other two, but at least you still have to use them. Honestly, when I was saying I didn't think the thing was a Necrozma form, an in-battle transformation never occurred to me. Very interesting.

The one problem I foresee is that the form-change activation button was in the same location as the Z-Move button. This would imply that you cannot use both the form change and the Z-Move at the same time. If so, that is a bit lame, especially because of how beautiful those Z-Moves were. I'd definitely rather use a new form than a Z-Move, but it's unfortunate to see one replace the other. The only way they could really work together is if the criteria for the form change is having already used the Z-Move. I suppose that could work, but it would also come with the unfortunate side-effect of making the form change non-existent in a short battle.
 

Autobot N

Well-Known Member
The one problem I foresee is that the form-change activation button was in the same location as the Z-Move button. This would imply that you cannot use both the form change and the Z-Move at the same time. If so, that is a bit lame, especially because of how beautiful those Z-Moves were. I'd definitely rather use a new form than a Z-Move, but it's unfortunate to see one replace the other. The only way they could really work together is if the criteria for the form change is having already used the Z-Move. I suppose that could work, but it would also come with the unfortunate side-effect of making the form change non-existent in a short battle.
I would think that it is a similar situation to Mega Rayquaza. With Necrozma's new form having a BST of
745
(this is one of the few rumors I've actually seen), allowing it to use a Z-move would probably be pretty OP, so I reckon they did it for balance.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
I don't understand anyone that doesn't appreciate Pokemon Bank. Yes, it has its flaws (no held items and no back-and-forth transferring across generations), but it is a great companion to the Pokemon games. It makes it so easy to collect, store, organize, and transfer Pokemon between all of your games. $5 is a great price for the ease of quickly and safely storing and transferring a large number of Pokemon. Not to mention all the BP and their ability to send gift Pokemon through it.

Speaking as someone who would never uses the storage feature, Bank is just not worth subscribing to. If I had it, I would probably wouldn't use it more than once yea, solely for the purposes of transferring. That means that I have to pay $5 whenever I want to transfer Pokémon, and that's just a not right. I won't deny that Bank is worth it if you use the storage feature, I actually fully agree that a storage system should require money, no different from how Pokémon Box or My Pokémon Ranch required money. But as someone who never even fills more than one single in-game PC box, I would never buy one of those games. In the past, it didn't matter, as there was no reason for me to buy them, but now, they have locked a feature behind it which used to be built in. A feature that I would very much like to have, but wouldn't use enough to justify spending $5. My situation probably isn't typical, but that's why I don't appreciate Bank.

I would think that it is a similar situation to Mega Rayquaza. With Necrozma's new form having a BST of ... (this is one of the few rumors I've actually seen), allowing it to use a Z-move would probably be pretty OP, so I reckon they did it for balance.

I'm sorry, but I specifically asked for people to not confirm or deny anything I said if they had already seen spoilers. You just confirmed that Necrozma does in fact have an new form. I was only speculating, and didn't know if that speculation was true or not. I know you were just trying to answer my question, but you didn't have to mention that you had actually seen that this form of Necrozma exists.

Anyways, the difference is, Mega Rayquaza doesn't have a signature Z-Move, so it's not that big of a deal that it's only one or the other. With this, your forced to make a choice between one or the other, both of which are major parts of Necrozma, which could theoretically co-exist. It's disappointing. I especially hate it when balance gets in the way of lore. I get why it has to happen, but I find it very disappointing.
 

Autobot N

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but I specifically asked for people to not confirm or deny anything I said if they had already seen spoilers. You just confirmed that Necrozma does in fact have an new form. I was only speculating, and didn't know if that speculation was true or not. I know you were just trying to answer my question, but you didn't have to mention that you had actually seen that this form of Necrozma exists.
Sorry about that. Though, given that they showed us the artwork and showed an ingame sequence of a mid-battle transformation, I assumed that a new Necrozma form would be completely confirmed information.

(I apologize if I am coming across as rude)

Anyways, the difference is, Mega Rayquaza doesn't have a signature Z-Move, so it's not that big of a deal that it's only one or the other. With this, your forced to make a choice between one or the other, both of which are major parts of Necrozma, which could theoretically co-exist. It's disappointing. I especially hate it when balance gets in the way of lore. I get why it has to happen, but I find it very disappointing.
That I agree with. Those Z-moves are pretty awesome, and it's a shame that Necrozma won't be able to use them all of the time.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Sorry about that. Though, given that they showed us the artwork and showed an ingame sequence of a mid-battle transformation, I assumed that a new Necrozma form would be completely confirmed information.

(I apologize if I am coming across as rude)

No worries, I get it. I was working under the assumption that it is a thing anyways. I'm just very strict when it comes to spoilers. You're right, it is essentially confirmed, it's just that you can't be 100% sure until the games actually come out (or you look at spoilers).
 

Autobot N

Well-Known Member
No worries, I get it. I was working under the assumption that it is a thing anyways. I'm just very strict when it comes to spoilers. You're right, it is essentially confirmed, it's just that you can't be 100% sure until the games actually come out (or you look at spoilers).
I can see where you're coming from, as I'm not a big fan of spoilers either. The only reason I even knew about the form before today is because I saw a YouTube thumbnail with the form and the BST on it.
 

Thure

Well-Known Member
Speaking as someone who would never uses the storage feature, Bank is just not worth subscribing to. If I had it, I would probably wouldn't use it more than once yea, solely for the purposes of transferring. That means that I have to pay $5 whenever I want to transfer Pokémon, and that's just a not right. I won't deny that Bank is worth it if you use the storage feature, I actually fully agree that a storage system should require money, no different from how Pokémon Box or My Pokémon Ranch required money. But as someone who never even fills more than one single in-game PC box, I would never buy one of those games. In the past, it didn't matter, as there was no reason for me to buy them, but now, they have locked a feature behind it which used to be built in. A feature that I would very much like to have, but wouldn't use enough to justify spending $5. My situation probably isn't typical, but that's why I don't appreciate Bank.

It's not meant to be in. The problem is: The DS and the 3DS have no way to connect to each other easily. How would you do it without an external storage system?
The problem just gets bigger with the games being on the Switch. There is absolutelly NO way for a Switch game to trade with a 3DS game. So it would not be possible to transfer your Pokemon from USUM to the Switch game in 2018/19. An external storage system allows you to trade your pokemon over without caring about diverent systems.

I can see where you're coming from, as I'm not a big fan of spoilers either. The only reason I even knew about the form before today is because I saw a YouTube thumbnail with the form and the BST on it.

I absolutelly HATE this people who put such important spoilers on their thumbnails. It's such a jerk move...
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
or tweets directly from the Pokémon Company https://twitter.com/Pokemon/status/930435393412931586

So what? Autobot N mentioned that artwork already. It confirms that something we don't yet know is going to happen to Necrozma, but that's all. Yes, it's fairly logical to put two and two together and assume that this something is the mystery figure on the covers, but that's not confirmation.

I can see where you're coming from, as I'm not a big fan of spoilers either. The only reason I even knew about the form before today is because I saw a YouTube thumbnail with the form and the BST on it.

That sucks. Between Pokémon, Mario Odyssey, and Sonic Forces, I've had to be very careful on Youtube the past two or three weeks. I don't even look at the suggested videos anymore, in fear of that happening to me.

It's not meant to be in. The problem is: The DS and the 3DS have no way to connect to each other easily. How would you do it without an external storage system?
The problem just gets bigger with the games being on the Switch. There is absolutelly NO way for a Switch game to trade with a 3DS game. So it would not be possible to transfer your Pokemon from USUM to the Switch game in 2018/19. An external storage system allows you to trade your pokemon over without caring about diverent systems.

For DS to 3DS, the possibility that comes to mind right away is to have an internal storage option. Plug your DS game card into the 3DS, activate the app, and save your Pokémon to your system directly via the app, and then send those to your 3DS game. It would be essentially that same as the way Bank works now, except you wouldn't have to pay for the server fees. Another possibility would be to use two separate systems, a DS and a 3DS, and have the 3DS send out a DS Download Play signal, which can interact with the DS games. This is how the Wii connected to the DS for Battle Revolution. I would assume the same could be done here. And I'm sure there are others ways too, I just don't know them.

As for the Switch, I'll admit that that could be a problem, though, once again, I would assume that Download Play option could work. But if it doesn't, for some reason I don't know of, that still means they implemented Bank two generations earlier than they needed to.
 

Autobot N

Well-Known Member
That sucks. Between Pokémon, Mario Odyssey, and Sonic Forces, I've had to be very careful on Youtube the past two or three weeks. I don't even look at the suggested videos anymore, in fear of that happening to me.
Thankfully, avoiding spoilers wasn't that hard for Odyssey (at least for me).
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
In the past, it didn't matter, as there was no reason for me to buy them, but now, they have locked a feature behind it which used to be built in.

It was built in once, and that was the jump from Generation III to Generation IV, when the DS hardware had the actual second cartridge slot, completely independent of Pokémon and they were able to piggyback off that. Migrating from Generation IV to Generation V required two systems, and for moving Pokémon between multiple games you've always needed two systems, and a second system costs a lot more than $5.

For DS to 3DS, the possibility that comes to mind right away is to have an internal storage option. Plug your DS game card into the 3DS, activate the app, and save your Pokémon to your system directly via the app, and then send those to your 3DS game. It would be essentially that same as the way Bank works now, except you wouldn't have to pay for the server fees.

An app like that still has to be developed, maintained, troubleshooted (troubleshot?), kept updated, and upgraded with every new game. All of that requires programmers and their labor. You want what costs money but you don't want to pay for it. If that app did exist it would likely still have at least a small fee attached to it - probably right around what a year of Bank costs.
 
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Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
It was built in once, and that was the jump from Generation III to Generation IV, when the DS hardware had the actual second cartridge slot, completely independent of Pokémon and they were able to piggyback off that. Migrating from Generation IV to Generation V required two systems, and for moving Pokémon between multiple games you've always needed two systems, and a second system costs a lot more than $5.

I believe we've debated on this very point before. I take the stance that it doesn't matter as there are many ways around the cost of a second system, such as already owning a second system or borrowing a friend's, and then you say it doesn't matter, as it's still a price attached to it. So let's just just cut to the chase and say I was happy to have the free workaround, even if it technically does cost more.

An app like that still has to be developed, maintained, troubleshooted (troubleshot?), kept updated, and upgraded with every new game. All of that requires programmers and their labor. You want what costs money but you don't want to pay for it. If that app did exist it would likely still have at least a small fee attached to it - probably right around what a year of Bank costs.

At that point though, it's so cheap and it requires that you already own at least two Pokémon games, the cost of accessing the app might as well just be the cost of buying a game, meaning buy a game, and the app comes with it. I can't imagine the cost of creating such an app would be that much more, if any more at all, than how much it would cost to create a built-in transfer feature like Gen IV or V.

Regardless, people who have been paying for Pokémon Bank since the day it came out almost four years ago, are approaching the point were a total of $20 has been put into it. A one-time purchase app of $5 is much more reasonable. Even if you had to buy a new $5 app every generation, it would still be cheaper than paying $5 a year.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I see no reason why they can't make transfers free, it uses a minimal amount of space and most of the maintenance is for people storing their Pokemon long term. It's one thing if you're storing hundreds of Pokemon for 20 years, it's another if you just need one box for 5 minutes to move Pokemon from one game to the next.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
I was happy to have the free workaround, even if it technically does cost more.

um

I can't imagine the cost of creating such an app would be that much more, if any more at all, than how much it would cost to create a built-in transfer feature like Gen IV or V.

The "built in" (not actually built in) transfer features were part of the game development, which, like anything else, are developed with a set budget that encompasses paying the laborers (programmers) for their labor. And those features didn't require any updating or upkeep.

A separate app would require separate development on a separate budget. Even if it's a small budget, and it would be, it still has to be paid for somehow. Pokémon Dream Radar had a cost. Pokédex 3D had a cost. Development costs money and that has to be passed on to the end user somehow, some way.

Regardless, people who have been paying for Pokémon Bank since the day it came out almost four years ago, are approaching the point were a total of $20 has been put into it. A one-time purchase app of $5 is much more reasonable. Even if you had to buy a new $5 app every generation, it would still be cheaper than paying $5 a year.

Yes, $5 is less than $20, thank you. I too would love to pay nothing or less for useful products/services, but it doesn't work that way. And as a result of that payment for the service, we have relatively reliable servers AND we have a cloud-based service that is and will continue to be future proof. That's where the $5 annually (or $20 for four years, not remotely unreasonable) is going: maintenance, upkeep, upgrades, and future development.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord

What I meant was by your definition, it may cost more, but at least there were workarounds that required you to spend no additional money. Sorry about the confusing wording.

The "built in" (not actually built in) transfer features were part of the game development, which, like anything else, are developed with a set budget that encompasses paying the laborers (programmers) for their labor.

Couldn't they, for something so small, just group it into the game development budget and use the team already being paid to work on the games to work on this relatively small project as well?

And those features didn't require any updating or upkeep.

Would a simple off-line app really require any upkeep or updates?

A separate app would require separate development on a separate budget. Even if it's a small budget, and it would be, it still has to be paid for somehow. Pokémon Dream Radar had a cost. Pokédex 3D had a cost.

Those were separate products in their own right though, not a minor functionality add-on.

Development costs money and that has to be passed on to the end user somehow, some way.

Which is my reasoning for lumping it into game development budget. That way the cost is payed for by the price of the game, and everyone wins.

Yes, $5 is less than $20, thank you. I too would love to pay nothing or less for useful products/services, but it doesn't work that way. And as a result of that payment for the service, we have relatively reliable servers AND we have a cloud-based service that is and will continue to be future proof. That's where the $5 annually (or $20 for four years, not remotely unreasonable) is going: maintenance, upkeep, upgrades, and future development.

$20 is not unreasonable for someone who actually uses Bank to its full potential. I never suggested otherwise. What is unreasonable is someone like me having to pay $20 to transfer maybe 20 Pokémon over the course of those four years, and nothing else. The reliable servers, cloud-based service, maintenance, upkeep, and upgrades you mentioned don't mean anything to me, because I don't need a system so complex to demand them. I'm not trying to say that Bank is an objective rip-off that nobody should sink money into. I'm just explaining why I personally don't use it, because it's a rip-off for me, which I'm sure you can understand why that's annoying. I gave the example of the app because I was told there was no alternate way to transfer Pokémon between Gen V and VI, and I was pointing out otherwise.
 

Rio!

Composer
So...I suppose there's nothing else to talk about since the whole micro-transactions and fuss about Bank are going on. At least until this weekend.

Does anyone else have limitations as far as how much you spoil yourselves? I can't resist pokemon themselves, although I've been staying away from a lot of plot-related spoilers though.
It is nice to see certain pokemon FINALLY have the shiny lock removed outside the usual region mascots themselves (please correct me on this if there are exceptions).
 

Darthlord7

The Smug Pikachu
So...I suppose there's nothing else to talk about since the whole micro-transactions and fuss about Bank are going on. At least until this weekend.

Does anyone else have limitations as far as how much you spoil yourselves? I can't resist pokemon themselves, although I've been staying away from a lot of plot-related spoilers though.
It is nice to see certain pokemon FINALLY have the shiny lock removed outside the usual region mascots themselves (please correct me on this if there are exceptions).

Same here. I only spoiled myself things that I was really curious about so I haven't kept up with all the leaks and spoilers that came out and don't intend to check especially when it comes to USUM's main story.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
So...I suppose there's nothing else to talk about since the whole micro-transactions and fuss about Bank are going on. At least until this weekend.

I'm sure we'd all be talking about this morning's trailer if it weren't for the fact that so many people delved into the spoilers. It was actually some very interesting info, but stuff that it seems like most people already knew.
 
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