General Discussion & Speculation Thread

[lemoncatpower]

I hope they do more with Youngster Tristan and Mina, especially Mina. At least let me go to her room and um...read her emotions? I also hope they do something cool if they explain why the trainer seems to read into a person's emotions when laying in the beds...nope still sounds weird

I can see Mina having a much more active role in USUM, especially since she was so inactive in SM.

 

[shadowF]

The Pokémon Company (in Japan at least) has posted on its Japanese account a small clip featuring the male player of US/UM in Wela Volcano, particularly where the trial takes place. But once where Kiawe stood, is now fan-favorite Hiker David!

I wonder what this mean? Maybe the trial has moved...?

One thing confirmed from today's clip is that pokemon dont follow you, or if they do then we have the option to remove it as well.

 

[Darthlord7]

I can see Mina having a much more active role in USUM, especially since she was so inactive in SM.

I hope for that as well. She has the potential as a character to be more relevant in USUM imo.

 

[Ultra Beast Lover]

I hope Mina appears throughout the game offering some weird yet insightful thoughts on the world like, "Why do kids always seem to save the world?" or "Why is it that a relatively peaceful place like Alola has multiple police stations yet in some other regions where there's a lot of chaos it's really hard to get the police?"

 

[Pikachu111213]

Is there a link to the japanese video of the hiker in USUM?

 

[Bguy7]

I did not like Mina's character at all. I would honestly be alright if she was removed entirely. But, my feelings on her aside, it only seems logical that she'll have a bigger role in this game.

 

[lemoncatpower]

One thing confirmed from today's clip is that pokemon dont follow you, or if they do then we have the option to remove it as well.

Yea I think that hype died fast, doesn't seem like a mechanic in USUM anymore since there's more evidence it isn't in the game than evidence of it being in it at all.

I hope for that as well. She has the potential as a character to be more relevant in USUM imo.

I can imagine that she'll have a full trial figured out as well as a more detailed area to be in, in contrast with SM. I can't see them keeping that the same since it seems like they left it out for a reason and just added the dinky dragon trial in to make it seem better than it was. If they were truly going to make a Fairy leader and a dragon trial, they have to be more exciting imo, so some of the most exciting types.

 

[Ultra Beast Lover]

Agreed, the victory over Poni Island's trials just felt kinda hollow. It was fun but the other trials made it feel like you did something big with the Trial Captain and Kahuna having watched you win but Poni Island felt more like, "Yep, Hapu has been defeated. Oh a trial we can do really quick." With no fanfare.

 

[Bguy7]

Just thought I'd share a random tip I found. If you haven't done an exact comparison of the map from Sun and Moon with the map from Ultra Sun and Moon, you can easily do so by opening the following two links in different tabs, and then using the control button plus 2 and 3 to switch back and forth between the two images. They are the exact same size, so you can easily see any changes made to the new map.

https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/8/8d/Alola_artwork.png
https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/0/0b/Alola_USUM_artwork.png

I actually find it very interesting how exactly the same the two images are, right down to the random boats. It's obvious that they took the original map and edited to make the Ultra Sun and Moon one, instead of remaking it from scratch.

 

[Zoruagible]

I did not like Mina's character at all. I would honestly be alright if she was removed entirely. But, my feelings on her aside, it only seems logical that she'll have a bigger role in this game.

I hope she and Hapu are both removed entirely.
Let Ryuku, Kahili, and completely new characters shine.

We still need an Ice specialist too btw. That was the one type SM flat out ignored when it came to implanting people specializing in types

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Of course there are games I don't like or games that feel underwhelming to me, I guess what I mean is if there are elements I do like, it kind of helps me ride out that game until the end and in Pokemon's case, it's the lore and story that's buried under the surface, like in OR/AS where you learn about Sea Mauville and the horrible things that went on during it's heyday and that it was attempting to find a way to use actual Pokemon (not their abilities, the Pokemon themselves) as a source of energy and in Alola's case, there's the stuff you see in the Aether Foundation regarding Arceus, the darker implications of Mega Evolution and what happens in the post-game. If Pokemon remained the very same as it was in Gen I and never really attempted to create any sense of backstory or lore or a story outside of "Collect badge, become champion" then I think I would have lost interest years ago but it's all the stuff they added that keeps me playing the games and with every new game or generation, one of my key concerns is how will they advance the overall story. In essence, I love world-building and Pokemon is getting better at that.

You're not getting it. If you like the story, maybe, but what if you don't? I myself couldn't care less about the story, I'm more concerned about the region design primarily (and also the Pokemon to a lesser degree). And now that we've seen the map of the region and how it's 99% the same, we can say with certainty that if you want new areas to explore, there's practically nothing for you in this game. And that's the issue here, depending on what aspect of the series you enjoy this game is already going to be a negative experience. Like exploring the region? Want to see the story progress after SM? Then you're out of luck, no matter what USUM does it's not going to have those things so you're not going to enjoy it. That's why it's important for them to have a well balanced game that improves in ALL areas of the game, the story, the region design, the Pokemon, the gameplay features, the content, etc. That way, they have something for everyone who's a Pokemon fan.

Your attitude towards the games being on the 3DS confuses me simply because, what exactly is being lost by the games being on the 3DS? Graphics? More advanced mechanics? What can the Switch add to a Pokemon game other than making it look prettier. Sure they could make a bigger map and more detailed locations but you talk about this as if Sun/Moon were meant to be on the Switch or that Gen VII was meant to be for the Switch but they rushed the games out and had to scale them down. These games tend to be planned a couple of years in advance (just look at the fact that they are planning a Switch game that will come out in 2018/2019) so to think that the games weren't originally planned for the 3DS is a bit absurd. We can't say things were lost because they were on inferior hardware because we don't know what they would have done if going ahead with the Switch in mind and you seem to be under the belief that the game's only existance is for profits (with your talk of planning the release to work alongside the Switch release and thereby making the Pokemon games a Switch flagship game) and while profits will always be one of the main concerns, that's the exact reason why it's on the 3DS. Let's say they released Sun/Moon this year, this November for the Switch, they would be facing lesser sales than usual because there isn't a large amount of the market who owns a Switch, there are people who are probably going to get one for Christmas so they would have to wait until the new year to see sales flourish and as it stands, the Switch is having manufacturing problems and there's a short supply of units so it's that much harder to get one. If Sun/Moon were to release this year then it might end up creating a scenario like the Mini SNES is doing where top priority with people becomes obtaining a Switch and again, with the supply issues, that becomes really messy and on top of that, you still wouldn't see 100% of the sales since again, a majority of the market still doesn't own a Switch. Now if it were on 3DS like it is, you know the market is safe because it's been out for 7/8 years, you know a majority of people own some version of it and so the only thing to worry about it making sure there's enough units of the game itself. Plus since they are now familar with 3DS hardware, they can play around with it, take full advantage of it and push it to it's limits and at the very least, they're comfortable with it whereas with the Switch, one of the hurdles would be understanding how the console works, what they can and can't do and in true Nintendo fashion, how can they take advantage of the gimmicks. In the end, it's much less stressful to just develop a game with hardware you're used to for a market you know is large enough to see 100% of the sales. Plus, you'd have people complaining that they don't have a Switch yet and now they have to spend the money for that /and/ the game and you know how cheap some gamers can be.

I can blame people for being impatient for new hardware, mostly because the whole thing feels like a symbiotic relationship. It's not just developers making people crave the new tech by making it look super sleek and sexy but it's the people who demand that developers keep up with the newest innovations, you have gamers who think consoles are always inferior because they can't be upgraded once their tech becomes outdated, resulting in the likes of Playstation and Xbox now having to release upgraded versions of current consoles with better hardware. Part of me hopes that all it will take is one of these companies to say "Screw it" and not buckle to the pressure of these types of players to see a change where graphics, hardware, FPS and how many teraflops the console has stops becoming the key deciding factor and I think that's a reason I respect Nintendo, they go at their own pace even if it puts them a generation behind and you know what, they still make a crapload of money.

No, there's a lot more to this than just graphics. Keep in mind that Nintendo specifically avoids the graphical pissing contest that Microsoft and Sony are all to eager to engage in, their console upgrades are focused on what they can do to upgrade the gameplay. And the Switch's focus is on merging console and handheld gaming so that you can play any time of game anywhere you want it.

Now what that means for Pokemon is that it would be the first main series game on console. By itself that alone is enough to get people hyped as fans have been begging and begging and begging Game Freak to make a console game for years. But it goes deeper than just Pokemon on the big screen. Console games also have a different gameplay philosophy than handhelds, they're designed for long play and so they typically have large scale and usually open worlds and tons of content. And this is something I think a lot of people want for Pokemon, the comments people have made about what they want out of the Switch game and GameInformer specifically asking about if the game would provide BotW's sense of freedom really enforces that notion. USUM as is just feels too little, too late and fans expect much more out of a Pokemon game in the year 2017.

With the restaurant metaphor, you can't say we already know the menu, at least not completely, we know part of the menu but there's a whole other page we haven't seen yet and I'm excited to see that new page. And again, we go back to this problem where you seem to act like you know exactly how this game will play out, how can you know this is a Pokemon game doing nothing new when you haven't seen it yet. I think at this point, you're just another person who's written off US/UM for your own reasons and no amount of explaining will change that although I do ask, if you have made up your mind about the game and you're not that interested, why do you post on this particular thread, are you hoping that someone will say something that will change your outlook on the games or do you just want to prove to people that yes, these games will really suck and underwhelm?

But let's say, with this restaurant metaphor, that you like pasta and regular spaghetti is the only thing on the pasta section of the menu. Does it really matter what else is on there? Maybe if you've never tried pizza or subs or whatever, you'd have a valid point, since you're not opening yourself up to new experiences, but you already have and you know you don't like them? Then there's no point in forcing it, different people have different tastes so variety is crucial.

 

[Thure]

You're not getting it. If you like the story, maybe, but what if you don't? I myself couldn't care less about the story, I'm more concerned about the region design primarily (and also the Pokemon to a lesser degree). And now that we've seen the map of the region and how it's 99% the same, we can say with certainty that if you want new areas to explore, there's practically nothing for you in this game. And that's the issue here, depending on what aspect of the series you enjoy this game is already going to be a negative experience. Like exploring the region? Want to see the story progress after SM? Then you're out of luck, no matter what USUM does it's not going to have those things so you're not going to enjoy it. That's why it's important for them to have a well balanced game that improves in ALL areas of the game, the story, the region design, the Pokemon, the gameplay features, the content, etc. That way, they have something for everyone who's a Pokemon fan.

But we have already seen new places... The Pikachu place, the new forest place, the gym like building. And we saw on the map many new places too. New water routes, new beaches, an expanded Victory Road, new city layouts. Some of the places of the trailers aren't even on the map so where are they? And the existing places were redesigned too.

And they propably didnÄ't show all new places so it's likely they are way more new places.

 

[Ultra Beast Lover]

I hope they make the library more like the one in Canalave City, maybe have some Alola folk tales? Just a little something to build on the world some more like why do young kids often leave home and go on a journey? And maybe explain why the Ultra Beasts are so strange, aside from the fact that they come from other dimensions like Palkia, Dialga, Giratina etc., they're seemingly like other Pokemon yet they're described as strange

 

[Bolt the Cat]

But we have already seen new places... The Pikachu place, the new forest place, the gym like building. And we saw on the map many new places too. New water routes, new beaches, an expanded Victory Road, new city layouts. Some of the places of the trailers aren't even on the map so where are they?

Except those are all just tidbits, they're not really major differences. Hence why I said 99%, yes there are a few new places, but there's infinitely more old stuff on this map than new stuff. The areas look almost exactly identical, there aren't many new areas visible and none of them are as big as say, a new route or a new city, and there aren't even a lot of aesthetic changes on the map. This isn't like BW2 where you immediately saw a ton of new routes, cities, and dungeons and a ton of places had major aesthetic changes.

And the existing places were redesigned too.

Not by much. There were new buildings added and new Pokemon thrown into the overworld, but that's about it, the base design of the areas is the same.

And they propably didnÄ't show all new places so it's likely they are way more new places.

They don't really tend to do this, the maps are always extremely detailed and show almost everything there is to be experienced. So if the map looks 99% the same, most likely it's 99% the same. The only possibilities for new areas with what we now know about the map are:

1. The clouds in the southwest of the map, which could be hiding a new island.
2. Ultra Space
3. A new region

And while we do have some evidence for any of these three you have to think realistically, would they be capable of adding this much content in a year? Would they want to make this much extra content? And would they be able to make these things work? And knowing Game Freak, the answer to all of these questions is a resounding no. They've been struggling with 3D development and have been having trouble making games as big as they used to, so they probably won't be able to add entire regions worth of content in a year. And even if they could, they don't seem to want to, they've been adamant about making this game casual friendly so they tend not to care about the region being too small or devoid of content, so they probably didn't look at Alola and think there could be much more to this region like we did. Lastly, the logistics of having an entire second region's worth of content would discourage them from making something that big. They already tried with GSCHGSS, and the pacing suffered and they couldn't really flesh out the region like they wanted to, so they're unlikely to try that again. By far the most realistic of these possibilities is the second, and even then that would probably just be post game which would put this on par with FRLG, the main campaign would be the same and the post game would be expanded. And that definitely pales in comparison to BW2, where the entire game and region were overhauled from top to bottom.

More than likely we might get a few small rooms in Ultra Space and whatever scraps they added to the map and that's it. There's just nothing pointing towards a huge expansion whatsoever.

 

[Ultra Beast Lover]

Hmm do you think they might do more with the Pokemon school? I'm not talking Pokemon anime levels I would not wish that on anyone but maybe let us re-battle the students post game? I mean they're all just like, "Do your best! Bring home the gold!" But even when you go back no one says something like, "Woah, hey you're back! Nice job on winning the Island Challenge!" Maybe even for a daily event

 

[future.newyorker]

Hmm do you think they might do more with the Pokemon school? I'm not talking Pokemon anime levels I would not wish that on anyone but maybe let us re-battle the students post game? I mean they're all just like, "Do your best! Bring home the gold!" But even when you go back no one says something like, "Woah, hey you're back! Nice job on winning the Island Challenge!" Maybe even for a daily event

I wish this as well, I actually thought this the last time I looked at the new map. It was just so underwhelming in the original SM, even though I realize it is the most involved Trainer School we've ever had.

 

[Darthlord7]

Hmm do you think they might do more with the Pokemon school? I'm not talking Pokemon anime levels I would not wish that on anyone but maybe let us re-battle the students post game? I mean they're all just like, "Do your best! Bring home the gold!" But even when you go back no one says something like, "Woah, hey you're back! Nice job on winning the Island Challenge!" Maybe even for a daily event

I think the Pokemon School would stay the same as SM but I like the idea of re-battling students there. If they also brought different Pokemon every time and higher lvls as well that would have been even better imo. But still I don't have my hopes up for something like that.

 

[Ultra Beast Lover]

Yeah at most I'm expecting new dialogue for the post game, oh well at least we get Pikachu land plus Ultra Space

 

[Briankelly130]

You're not getting it. If you like the story, maybe, but what if you don't? I myself couldn't care less about the story, I'm more concerned about the region design primarily (and also the Pokemon to a lesser degree). And now that we've seen the map of the region and how it's 99% the same, we can say with certainty that if you want new areas to explore, there's practically nothing for you in this game. And that's the issue here, depending on what aspect of the series you enjoy this game is already going to be a negative experience. Like exploring the region? Want to see the story progress after SM? Then you're out of luck, no matter what USUM does it's not going to have those things so you're not going to enjoy it. That's why it's important for them to have a well balanced game that improves in ALL areas of the game, the story, the region design, the Pokemon, the gameplay features, the content, etc. That way, they have something for everyone who's a Pokemon fan.

So this is literally a non-issue then. You're complaining about a game that acts as a third version to the base pair of Alola games. I mean, what did you think Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon was going to do, I mean I take it that you didn't like Crystal, Emerald and Platinum either since they also fit into this same category and even Black/White 2 only increased the map by maybe 5%. You are going out of your way to complain about a game that by it's very nature is an updated version of games that have already been released. You've said you know they probably wouldn't have put Stars on the Switch (or anything from Gen VII on the Switch) so there's no point in arguing about what could have been in that department and yet still you think that US/UM would be different, that they would what, give you a new region to explore (or an older one in newer graphics)? That they would increase the map by 5% like they did for Unova? You are actually coming off like an old man yelling at the clouds, you are angry at a game for being exactly what it was meant to be, at least from a map design standpoint. The fact that they've said US/UM is going to be a re-telling of the Sun/Moon plot but with some differences probably means that plot is probably their focus and not drastically changing the map. I mean this is insane troll logic, if you didn't like Sun/Moon for it's map design, you were only fooling yourself if you thought US/UM was going to change it up which again brings me back to a question I asked in the last reply which you never answered, why are you even on this thread, why do you care so much about telling people how much this game disappoints you if you don't plan on playing it or at the very least, don't plan on enjoying it.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

So this is literally a non-issue then. You're complaining about a game that acts as a third version to the base pair of Alola games. I mean, what did you think Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon was going to do, I mean I take it that you didn't like Crystal, Emerald and Platinum either since they also fit into this same category and even Black/White 2 only increased the map by maybe 5%. You are going out of your way to complain about a game that by it's very nature is an updated version of games that have already been released.

5%? That is a vast underestimation. More like 30%. Regardless of how you want to frame it though, it's still a hell of a lot better than the 1% we have now.

And as for liking Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum, again it comes back to changing gameplay philosophies. Just because you liked something when it came out does not mean it's still a good idea now. For instance, go back and play RBY now after experiencing more modern games and see if you still like it. More than likely, you won't. Beyond just the graphics, there's a lot of things about the game that are just so outdated, the map design is so short, flat, and simplistic, the environments are really generic, the plot is virtually non-existent, and there's virtually nothing to do after beating the game except complete the Dex (and hell, even FRLG didn't fix all of those issues). Even though you might have liked the game back in the 90's, the series has progressed so much over the years that coming back to something like this just wouldn't satisfy a lot of people anymore. This is what people mean when they say a particular game hasn't "aged" well, there's something about what it did originally that just doesn't have the same appeal now as it did when the game originally came out. It's the same with third versions, the fanbase was fine with it back when they first did it, but after BW2 which was a much, much larger improvement over the original BW than Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum were for those respective regions the concept of third versions simply feels outdated now.

You've said you know they probably wouldn't have put Stars on the Switch (or anything from Gen VII on the Switch) so there's no point in arguing about what could have been in that department and yet still you think that US/UM would be different, that they would what, give you a new region to explore (or an older one in newer graphics)? That they would increase the map by 5% like they did for Unova? You are actually coming off like an old man yelling at the clouds, you are angry at a game for being exactly what it was meant to be, at least from a map design standpoint.

There is a large difference between expecting a third version to be on new hardware and expecting it to not be a copy/paste. Third versions are not going to be the kind of game to sell you on new hardware since they're built around the limitations of the old hardware and there's not much they can do to push past that. New generations are by far the best opportunity for that because they can be designed from the ground up around the new hardware and easily show what it can do that the previous hardware could not. So in that respect yes, I never expected that to happen.

That being said though, that doesn't mean they can't do anything to improve. BW2 shows there's a lot you can do with an existing region even on old hardware, it's a matter of creativity and willingness to change. This game however, shows that they are refusing to change that much and are in fact regressing in that regard from BW2.

The fact that they've said US/UM is going to be a re-telling of the Sun/Moon plot but with some differences probably means that plot is probably their focus and not drastically changing the map. I mean this is insane troll logic, if you didn't like Sun/Moon for it's map design, you were only fooling yourself if you thought US/UM was going to change it up which again brings me back to a question I asked in the last reply which you never answered, why are you even on this thread, why do you care so much about telling people how much this game disappoints you if you don't plan on playing it or at the very least, don't plan on enjoying it.

It is astounding how you continue to fail to understand the point of different people liking different things. They can't just change up the plot and expect everyone to go gaga over it. Not everyone likes the series for its plot. Just because you do and you can accept the same game with a slightly different story doesn't mean other people will, and you cannot force them to no matter how you try because they have different tastes in games and like different aspects of the game. Posing this as a matter of plot vs. region design is the wrong way to look at this, they really need both to appeal to different groups of fans that like one or the other and there's no reason why they can't. There's nothing insane about this.

Why are you so intent on making sure everyone knows that you disapprove of these games? You've made your point numerous times, why keep beating it over the head?

Because for all of the times I've said it people still don't seem to get the issue and keep trying to preach open-mindedness about the game when the core premise of this game flat out does not appeal to people. If you still like the game, then good for you. But don't try to force other people to like something they don't.