General Discussion & Speculation Thread

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I've always thought of the third games as different stories even if a few aspects changed and they still had most of the same plot points. Yellow was different to me because of Pikachu, Crystal because you could play as a girl, Emerald because both Teams were the villains which was very interesting to see unfold, and Platinum because of the Pokédex additions and changes to the Gym Leaders, E4, and Cynthia's teams. They didn't feel like the other games to me.

 

[Darthlord7]

I've always thought of the third games as different stories even if a few aspects changed and they still had most of the same plot points. Yellow was different to me because of Pikachu, Crystal because you could play as a girl, Emerald because both Teams were the villains which was very interesting to see unfold, and Platinum because of the Pokédex additions and changes to the Gym Leaders, E4, and Cynthia's teams. They didn't feel like the other games to me.

Agreed. In USUM we have new locations, new forms and UBs(!), underused characters being more active(Kahili, Ryuki) etc. I think I won't have any problems with USUM either.

 

[knightwolf09]

Actually I'm starting to think that maybe the parts that stay the exact same, are mostly the more important parts of Sun and Moon, such as meeting Lilie Hau and Gladion, seeing an Ultra Beast for the first time, and Nebby evolving. Everything else in between could be changed.

 

[Thure]

No, that is like Emerald and Platinum. Same core design of the region with maybe a few extra areas or minor changes. Nothing we see on the map is any better than what we got in Emerald, Emerald had a lot of little additions like Magma Hideout, Mirage Tower, and Desert Underpass but no real major changes to the region design. USUM is looking the same.

Eh.... and this were all changes. There was nothing more in Emerald. Just the Battle Frontier. And most of this changes were not vissable on the map.
In USUm we have already seen way more new locations and changes on the map and in the trailers than in Emerald.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

There is some of that yeah, but it's not as contradictory as you think. As far as "third versions", the fans mean they want a followup to the original game with expanded content. But that's a mouthful to say over "third versions", so they just say third versions. But really, they want something more like a sequel that offers much larger expansions than traditional third versions, which neither XY nor SM got. Hence people are complaining about both for different reasons. Doing new things to shake up the series is good, but mechanics like Megas and Z-Moves are kind of tacked on and overcomplicate things so they're not really "shake ups", they're more like regional flavor which is not what fans want, they want progress and changes in philosophy, something Game Freak has been very resistant to lately (and arguably has never really done).

Game Freak's problem is a matter of balance and execution, they've been pretty good at changing the things the fanbase wants changed, but not in the way they want it changed. So their solutions just fragment the fanbase even further. They don't really "improve" things, they just come up with some contrived solution for the sake of "uniqueness". For instance, in 4th gen people complained about the amount of cross gen evolutions in the dex and how the old Pokemon have too much of a presence, so what do they do to solve that in 5th gen? They removed cross gen evolutions altogether and limit you to new Pokemon only in BW. Which of course people complained about, so then in XY they had a ton of old Pokemon and they pair that with Mega Evolutions as a solution to the lack of cross gen Pokemon. But the fanbase didn't like that either because now the old Pokemon are too much again and Megas are only a temporary power boost which doesn't help some of the weaker Pokemon. Do you see what's going on? They're overcorrecting the problems and flip flopping between opposite extremes, which triggers one side of the fanbase or the other (or even both). That's not a result of the fanbase having different preferences, that's a result of Game Freak failing to fully address the issues.

Yeah, I see what's going on. You're never going to make everyone happy at once. Point blank. Megas aren't THAT terrible at all. Z-moves are being used competitively...that's just confirming what I'm saying. People don't know what they want. It's easier to articulate smaller things. We want harder games better stories. New ideas. But we don't actually know what that looks like in practice. We want new, but we clamour for the nostalgia of remakes. There is no strong over arcing unifying voice to perfectly follow. We can't even agree on things like customization and following Pokémon. Kids LOVE megas. Thats the thing about the series, the could come out with the perfect game, and still someone out there wouldn't be happy. They could also put out the worst game, and somebody out there would still be happy. Because we all play for different reasons.

I LOVE sumo. I don't think the story was as bad and I did t have a problem with the cut scenes. The only bad one was after finishing the league, I got stuck for a half hour before either was starting work just to save XD. But I did appreciate knowing what happened to Lillie and all and to see her go to Kanto. I love customization, I love Amie and refresh, I don't care for the PWT. I want following Pokémon. But there's people out there who feel the complete opposite. This series is too big for there to ever be this completely unifying opinion. And there are the kids who don't talk online who buy A LOT of stuff.

If people are really THAT upset with the franchise, they need to stop buying it. Straight up. Don't pre-order it, don't buy it on release wait a month, see the reviews and hear the changes. Money talks. We all say we want sequels, like B2W2, but gen five sold the worst of the generations. If people don't want to buy the same game re-done, they need to stop buying both Sun AND Moon, which literally is the same game. (I'm not saying everyone does all this stuff. But there isn't enough people doing it to make a difference in sales). Yes, the games aren't perfect. Yes there is room for improvements. Yes we should say something. But we also have to understand that they're never gonna make a game that hits every note at once because we like different things. I may not care for the camera function, but I'm not going to begrudge them for adding a feature that someone else enjoys.

I just think that a lot of people are gonna say that USUM is a cash grab, that it's not different enough, but the majority of them are gonna buy it anyway, voiding their own point.

 

[Kein]

We all say we want sequels, like B2W2, but gen five sold the worst of the generations.

B2W2 sold more than Crystal, Emerald and Platinum. Granted, that could be due to the paired release, but hopefully USUM will sell less.

XY and more recently SM didn't sell much more than BW. And they benefitted from the Go push.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Eh.... and this were all changes. There was nothing more in Emerald. Just the Battle Frontier. And most of this changes were not vissable on the map.
In USUm we have already seen way more new locations and changes on the map and in the trailers than in Emerald.

No we haven't seen more than Emerald. We've seen little tidbits throughout the region but we haven't seen, say, new routes or cities. We've seen the Pikachu trailer and the forest, but that's more on par with Emerald's expansions. We haven't seen large chunks of new areas like BW2, and if we were getting that we would see them.

 

[ShadowForce720]

B2W2 sold more than Crystal, Emerald and Platinum. Granted, that could be due to the paired release, but hopefully USUM will sell less.

XY and more recently SM didn't sell much more than BW. And they benefitted from the Go push.

That was probably more of a case where because B2W2 where two games you had more cases of where people would buy both games. Sure you can hope USUM will sell less as much as you want but in all reality I wouldn't be that surprised if USUM probably winds up selling more then Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum and perhaps even sell more two B2W2 do to the fact that when you look at it chances are that most people that are complain about USUM right now and those that even say there going to skipped it when it finally comes to the release day they will still go out and buy it on day 1 simply because it's a new pokemon game.

There where the sales for a main series pokemon game gets hurt significantly because most people that complain about it and say they will skipped it will still wind up getting it on release day anyway.

 

[Sulfurian]

That was probably more of a case where because B2W2 where two games you had more cases of where people would buy both games. Sure you can hope USUM will sell less as much as you want but in all reality I wouldn't be that surprised if USUM probably winds up selling more then Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum and perhaps even sell more two B2W2 do to the fact that when you look at it chances are that most people that are complain about USUM right now and those that even say there going to skipped it when it finally comes to the release day they will still go out and buy it on day 1 simply because it's a new pokemon game.

There where the sales for a main series pokemon game gets hurt significantly because most people that complain about it and say they will skipped it will still wind up getting it on release day anyway.

Which is also what frustrated me. "Huh, we got away with selling two copies of a third game as sequels. Can we do it again but as a retelling of a region" $$$$

 

[Excitable Boy]

I have my doubts that there still exists an audience on 3DS when the primary focus for the year has been the Switch

it'll be interesting to see how the Metroid remake charts, since that's the only other major release for this period

 

[Munchy]

USUM will sell well (in "third version standards" at least), if only for the fact that it comes out right before the holidays and Pokémon is something people want to play on their systems at that time. We also have to remember there are people who never got Sun/Moon, and many new to Pokémon altogether, so obviously the newest games are the ones they're going to go to first. Right now, it's still SM, but by next year, it'll be USUM. Those people are probably oblivious to wondering and pondering about similarities/differences between SM and USUM. It's the fandom that gets stuck into things like that, which is understandable, of course, as we've played through many of the games and come out expecting stuff for future releases, and weighing whether to get them or not. But if you won't get the game, someone else will anyway, so I doubt sales will be affected, even if the reception for the games is lukewarm at best right now (within our communities). And many will probably end up getting anyway.

Though I guess low sales would send some message across to GameFreak... but how many would really want to miss out on the game just to prove a point, no matter how "dull" they might seem as of now? And I'm not sure GameFreak would even be bothered, they clearly have their own visions of the games they make (and we end up appreciating). Even if Mega-evo's and Z-moves etc are necessarily not all of our long-time fans' cup of tea, they do have somewhat of a "wow"-factor to draw in new audiences.

 

[Excitable Boy]

Though I guess low sales would send some message across to GameFreak... but how many would really want to miss out on the game just to prove a point, no matter how "dull" they might seem as of now?

why would I drop $40 on a dull game

 

[Rio!]

I have my doubts that there still exists an audience on 3DS when the primary focus for the year has been the Switch

If it had been at least a year or so rather than less than six months since release, I'd be inclined to agree.

 

[ShadowForce720]

why would I drop $40 on a dull game

Really it doesn't matter if you drop $40 on the game or not, because no matter how you look at it or try to argue it your really not going to be able to convince enough people not to drop $40 on the new game for it to really effect the sales in any significant way.

 

[Excitable Boy]

If it had been at least a year or so rather than less than six months since release, I'd be inclined to agree.

Switch released in March, SUMO releases in November - eight months since, with Switch maintaining momentum from a steady stream of first party output throughout. It's still the hot ticket electronic, and I don't know if you could sell casuals on the obviously inferior device at this point

Really it doesn't matter if you drop $40 on the game or not, because no matter how you look at it or try to argue it your really not going to be able to convince enough people not to drop $40 on the new game for it to really effect the sales in any significant way.

ok

enjoy your game

 

[Munchy]

why would I drop $40 on a dull game

Hehe well, probably some silly wording on my part, but I guess what I was trying to say was that even if USUM turns out to be very much like SM, it probably won't cause a major drop in sales or anything because Pokemon always sells.

SM were enjoyable already so USUM will likely not be dull haha!

 

[ShadowForce720]

Switch released in March, SUMO releases in November - eight months since, with Switch maintaining momentum from a steady stream of first party output throughout. It's still the hot ticket electronic, and I don't know if you could sell casuals on the obviously inferior device at this point



ok

enjoy your game

Considering if you look back at the Nintendo 3d's it came out in 2011 in Japan on February 26, 2011 and in North America on March 27, 2011 and yet Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 still came out on the Nintendo DS in Japan on June 23, 2012 and in North America on October 7th 2012, and it didn't have any problem selling relatively well on the Nintendo Ds even though the Nintendo 3d's was already out. So there isn't any reason why USUM couldn't sell relatively well. There isn't going to be this supposed drop in sell just USUM just because it came out on the Nintendo 3d instead of the Switch.

Still doesn't really change my point, it's still going to sell relatively well.

 

[Excitable Boy]

Switch doesn't have BC and has a somewhat decent selection of games already

I wouldn't use a single six-year-old example as a comparison and expect it to match

 

[ShadowForce720]

Switch doesn't have BC and has a somewhat decent selection of games already

I wouldn't use a single six-year-old example as a comparison and expect it to match

The thing you have to keep in mind is any main series pokemon game is a big title and pretty popular at that, meaning that do to the simply fact that Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are main series pokemon games means they are going to sell well regardless on the Nintendo 3d's even if the Switch has decent selection of games and it's been 8 months since the release of the Switch it does not change the fact that pokemon is that big of a franchise for Nintendo that it can have a main series pokemon game come out on the Nintendo 3d's and still do relatively well just do to the simply fact that it's a main series pokemon game.

I mean you seem to be misunderstanding something here you seem to be thinking that the system like Nintendo 3d's and Nintendo Switch sells Pokémon, when in all reality it's the other way around, meaning that yes even though the Switch is out for eight months plenty of people are still going to get Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon on the Nintendo 3d's simply do to the fact that it's a main series pokemon games and those sell well. In all reality the Switch being out for eight months is not enough time and is not big enough to really effect the sales of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon in any significant way and if you really think that it will effect the sales of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon in any significant way then you are really underestimating how big and how popular main series pokemon games are.

 

[Excitable Boy]

We'll see where it goes, but unlike SM, USUM is going up against a number of heavy hitters that appeal to the same demographics - I question how many outside of the most dedicated fans would stick with the 3DS over the Switch library, particularly going forward as the tail extends