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General Discussion & Speculation Thread

shadowF

Well-Known Member
Thought this would be interesting to put out..... Someone asked Masuda on twitter if he would be at E3 and he said No. While we may still get some news at E3 regarding Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, I think it would be best if people start lowering their expectations regarding big news about the games for at least next week.

https://twitter.com/Junichi_Masuda/status/873466537281114112
 

Pikachu111213

Traveler
Thought this would be interesting to put out..... Someone asked Masuda on twitter if he would be at E3 and he said No. While we may still get some news at E3 regarding Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, I think it would be best if people start lowering their expectations regarding big news about the games for at least next week.

https://twitter.com/Junichi_Masuda/status/873466537281114112

That's a shame. I don't expect anything from Corocoro either. How often did they update us with Platinum and BW2? Because I'm assuming they won't update us as much as they did with Sun and Moon since those were the first of the generation
 

Satoshi & Touko

Peanuts aren't just a nut.
Yeah, I'm not going to expect much news on the games at all until August or even September.
 

Exceed

o m e g a
Masuda doesn't need to be at e3 for us to get a new trailer. Or something might be posted to the YT channel this month at least.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I don't really see the potential in these games period. It's certainly not going to measure up to BW2. There just... isn't a whole lot to build on with Alola, the region's pretty full up aside from a couple of side areas that they could expand on, so we won't really get that huge, BW2-esque expansion unless they add new islands (which I seriously doubt they will). The regional dex is already pretty large and varied, so a dex expansion won't really do much. That pretty much just leaves the usual extra storyline elements and new features, so it's probably going to be more in line with a traditional third version than BW2.

And while BW2 was the only one of its kind and this would be about average for the series, the thing is that BW2 has really opened the fanbase's eyes and raised the bar in terms of what updated versions can really do. Look at some of the fan comments about what kind of games they want to see and you'll notice a lot more people asking for sequels now. When ORAS was first revealed and they gave that PR statement about it being a "fresh take" on RS in a "new world", everyone thought they would be sequels, only to be let down when it wasn't. Some people have been throwing around the idea of following Lillie to Kanto for BW2 style Kanto sequels or making Sinnoh sequels when it's inevitably Sinnoh's turn for remakes. And now with this game, pretty much everyone is hoping it'll be more like BW2 and less like a third version. So even though BW2 was only one sequel, people are starting to expect more of them and going back to regular third versions and remakes feels like a step back.

So yeah, it's still early and they could surprise us, but in general, I don't see any way to make a second visit through Alola exciting. At best it'll be a poor man's BW2, and I'm not even sure of that. The wording makes it sound like it could just be a generic third version.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
While it's a bit too early to make any real plans for teams and such, I guess when it comes to which starters I'll use, I'll do as I did with B2/W2 and choose the one starter I didn't pick in either the original B/W in one of the games, which in this case will be Rowlet. As for the other game, I'll have to think about that one once more details come out.

I'll pretty much do the same thing. For BW I chose Oshawott, and BW2 I chose Tepig. So for now I might spring for Rowlet since I'm a physical attacking dude, but Primarina is strong so I could go for him too. I'm really at odds. I loved Rowlet's Robin Hood motif since the leaks, but I've been having Popps's back since the beginning with his maelstrom of hate, and find him to be the cutest one.
 

Tropios

':o Me is stinky??'
I don't really see the potential in these games period. It's certainly not going to measure up to BW2. There just... isn't a whole lot to build on with Alola, the region's pretty full up aside from a couple of side areas that they could expand on, so we won't really get that huge, BW2-esque expansion unless they add new islands (which I seriously doubt they will). The regional dex is already pretty large and varied, so a dex expansion won't really do much. That pretty much just leaves the usual extra storyline elements and new features, so it's probably going to be more in line with a traditional third version than BW2.

And while BW2 was the only one of its kind and this would be about average for the series, the thing is that BW2 has really opened the fanbase's eyes and raised the bar in terms of what updated versions can really do. Look at some of the fan comments about what kind of games they want to see and you'll notice a lot more people asking for sequels now. When ORAS was first revealed and they gave that PR statement about it being a "fresh take" on RS in a "new world", everyone thought they would be sequels, only to be let down when it wasn't. Some people have been throwing around the idea of following Lillie to Kanto for BW2 style Kanto sequels or making Sinnoh sequels when it's inevitably Sinnoh's turn for remakes. And now with this game, pretty much everyone is hoping it'll be more like BW2 and less like a third version. So even though BW2 was only one sequel, people are starting to expect more of them and going back to regular third versions and remakes feels like a step back.

So yeah, it's still early and they could surprise us, but in general, I don't see any way to make a second visit through Alola exciting. At best it'll be a poor man's BW2, and I'm not even sure of that. The wording makes it sound like it could just be a generic third version.
That's one hell of a lot of assumptions you're making there. Why? If we've learned anything from GF it's that you shouldn't read too much into their wording, so don't shoot these games down before we even got any info just because they didn't outright state it was a sequel.

For all we know they do it even better than BW2 with the alternate dimension stuff, they could even throw in new islands and new alolans. I mean, you're just drawing a lot of conclusions from very little info.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
That's one hell of a lot of assumptions you're making there. Why? If we've learned anything from GF it's that you shouldn't read too much into their wording, so don't shoot these games down before we even got any info just because they didn't outright state it was a sequel.

For all we know they do it even better than BW2 with the alternate dimension stuff, they could even throw in new islands and new alolans. I mean, you're just drawing a lot of conclusions from very little info.

You're not getting it. My issue isn't that they didn't state it was a sequel. My issue is that there's not enough to build on with Alola that would make it as great as BW2. The alternate universe thing is probably not going to amount to anything more than what we've seen in BW2, a few areas with some different aesthetics and some minor changes but probably nothing too groundbreaking. Even if they wanted to go that route, the fact that these games are coming out a year after SM means they're probably going to be extremely limited to what they can do. They're not going to be able to do a lot of crazy things with just one extra year. That's what I mean by poor man's BW2, we may see some of the changes to older areas that we saw in BW2, but probably not any of the expansions. Alola simply doesn't have room for a lot of interesting expansion, not beyond what we've seen from previous third versions.
 

King Shuckle

Don't be daft
I hope they give us the ability to purchase the Johto Balls in this. Only getting one of each in SM was kind of lame.
 

Tropios

':o Me is stinky??'
You're not getting it. My issue isn't that they didn't state it was a sequel. My issue is that there's not enough to build on with Alola that would make it as great as BW2. The alternate universe thing is probably not going to amount to anything more than what we've seen in BW2, a few areas with some different aesthetics and some minor changes but probably nothing too groundbreaking. Even if they wanted to go that route, the fact that these games are coming out a year after SM means they're probably going to be extremely limited to what they can do. They're not going to be able to do a lot of crazy things with just one extra year. That's what I mean by poor man's BW2, we may see some of the changes to older areas that we saw in BW2, but probably not any of the expansions. Alola simply doesn't have room for a lot of interesting expansion, not beyond what we've seen from previous third versions.
I am getting it and I disagree with your assumptions. Who says there's not enough to build on with Alola? Imagination is the only limit as to 'how much there is to build on'. First thing I thought after finishing sun and moon was 'I need a second Alola game'. A year isn't too short seeing as they don't have to design an entire new game and generation and you know they have been in development since before Sun and Moon were released. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire came a year after XY and they did have to entirely design Hoenn in 3D. They could easily expand Alola if they really want to, there aren't any rules that say they have to stick with what they did in SM.

Just saying, I understand that you're not excited by the announcement, but don't jump to conclusions just yet. You're using a lot of 'probably's.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
You're not getting it. My issue isn't that they didn't state it was a sequel. My issue is that there's not enough to build on with Alola that would make it as great as BW2. The alternate universe thing is probably not going to amount to anything more than what we've seen in BW2, a few areas with some different aesthetics and some minor changes but probably nothing too groundbreaking. Even if they wanted to go that route, the fact that these games are coming out a year after SM means they're probably going to be extremely limited to what they can do. They're not going to be able to do a lot of crazy things with just one extra year. That's what I mean by poor man's BW2, we may see some of the changes to older areas that we saw in BW2, but probably not any of the expansions. Alola simply doesn't have room for a lot of interesting expansion, not beyond what we've seen from previous third versions.

Actually there's plenty you can do with the region. I mean look at ORAS, The reimagining they took on Hoenn while at the same time keeping it relatively the same. The story, the areas, the characters, and even the legendaries, all new and updated and new but at the same similar. This games can even be more expansive by adding Ultra Space in the games, plus the possible chance of gyms returning can be pretty big.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I am getting it and I disagree with your assumptions. Who says there's not enough to build on with Alola? Imagination is the only limit as to 'how much there is to build on'. First thing I thought after finishing sun and moon was 'I need a second Alola game'.

Again, the region design can only be significantly expanded as it was in BW2 with another island. There simply isn't enough unused land to add more than a couple of bonus areas. That's one major thing that limits Alola's potential.

A year isn't too short seeing as they don't have to design an entire new game and generation and you know they have been in development since before Sun and Moon were released. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire came a year after XY and they did have to entirely design Hoenn in 3D. They could easily expand Alola if they really want to, there aren't any rules that say they have to stick with what they did in SM.

ORAS was also largely copy/pasted from its original design into the new engine. Not a lot of new areas (even less than most remakes in fact), not a lot of changes in design to older areas, it was basically following RS's blueprint on XY's engine. So that's not a good example.

Just saying, I understand that you're not excited by the announcement, but don't jump to conclusions just yet. You're using a lot of 'probably's.

Well like I said, it is early, but the circumstances do not favor a large update. I'm saying don't get your hopes up.

Actually there's plenty you can do with the region. I mean look at ORAS, The reimagining they took on Hoenn while at the same time keeping it relatively the same. The story, the areas, the characters, and even the legendaries, all new and updated and new but at the same similar. This games can even be more expansive by adding Ultra Space in the games, plus the possible chance of gyms returning can be pretty big.

What they did with ORAS really isn't that much different from third versions. The only difference is that it was a longer gap in between and a larger graphical upgrade. Other than that, it was just the usual throwing in new forms and adding new story elements. BW2 did more than this, it gave the region a large expansion with multiple new routes and multiple new gyms and it doubled the size of its regional dex fixing a major issue with only having new Pokemon. There was a lot more new content and improvements in that game than any third version or remake by a large margin. Ultra Space wouldn't really measure up since it's large and empty and I don't really see them doing much with it anyway, and gyms aren't really that different from trials.
 

Hasty

Moonside
I just hope these games will have enough changes to the originals. As these are not remakes after ~10 years, and GF seems to have dropped making casual "third versions", and the fact that these are directly linked to the originals in release order without anything in between, makes me think that it's quite likely USUM will be rather like B2W2 than "third versions". I would love if USUM are some kind of sequel/alternate universe mix where some things may have played out differently than in the originals and will play out differently when the player goes through the plot, while other things play/played out the same as in SM but are continued in USUM. Areas to explore could be changed accordingly.

The main characters seem to be the same as in SM but I really don't see GF ever making a seasoned Trainer the protagonist of a main series Pokemon game, so pure sequels are ruled out, I think.

I really expect new Alolan forms and/or Mega Evolutions. Those things are especially exciting in games without a new region and new Pokemon. I'm sure many players feel the same about this.
 

Tropios

':o Me is stinky??'
'Copy/pasting' Hoenn into XY's engine is not as little effort as you make it seem. It is a very good example imo. I'm not saying get your hopes up either, just don't shoot it down preliminary!
 

Sulfurian

Well-Known Member
Honestly I hope they make Solgaleo and Lunala more interesting this time around. Don't get me wrong I love Nebby and how our friend evolved into an "ultra" powerful Pokémon. But they need to give us more back round on these guys except "oh they're legends in our books and stuff. We don't know why, our guardians pretty much do all the protecting here so" *shrug* obviously just from the Nebby story they have more significance in the games than the pathetic Xerneas/Yveltal story in XY, but still, we need a bit more.
 

Wulava

danger chili pepper
Staff member
Moderator
Thought this would be interesting to put out..... Someone asked Masuda on twitter if he would be at E3 and he said No. While we may still get some news at E3 regarding Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, I think it would be best if people start lowering their expectations regarding big news about the games for at least next week.

https://twitter.com/Junichi_Masuda/status/873466537281114112

Well, CoroCoro should leak soon.

If CoroCoro will contain some bit of information on USUM apart from Marshadow, then TPCi will most likely release some information ahead.
The official site and YouTube were always ahead of CoroCoro last year, making them our primary source of game news.
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
Hopefully Corocoro will have something, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just the title and a couple minor details as that's what happened with B2W2 and Platinum in their first month of Corocoro information (hope I'm wrong on that though).

Also, about the argument on the last page, I think there are some things they can do with Alola even if these aren't sequels. If the whole "Alternate Story" is taken to heart, they could play that angle in a number of ways so that the story doesn't feel too repetitive, which on top of the usual third version features could make it a good game in its own right. I do understand the skepticism since after B2W2's sequels these games going more in the third version direction is disappointing, but there are still possibilities to make the games worthwhile and hopefully they'll take them.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Also, about the argument on the last page, I think there are some things they can do with Alola even if these aren't sequels. If the whole "Alternate Story" is taken to heart, they could play that angle in a number of ways so that the story doesn't feel too repetitive, which on top of the usual third version features could make it a good game in its own right. I do understand the skepticism since after B2W2's sequels these games going more in the third version direction is disappointing, but there are still possibilities to make the games worthwhile and hopefully they'll take them.

Well again, the "alternate story" approach would still end up being a poor man's BW2 in execution. You'd have some subtle changes to the areas just like BW2, but you'd be lacking the extra areas that BW2 had.
 

Thure

Well-Known Member
Well again, the "alternate story" approach would still end up being a poor man's BW2 in execution. You'd have some subtle changes to the areas just like BW2, but you'd be lacking the extra areas that BW2 had.

They still could add extra areas... even if it's the same time.

And we still don't know where this area is because it's not existing in SM:

pokemonultrasunandmoon_thumb.jpg
 
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