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General Discussion & Speculation Thread

Hoennking

Well-Known Member
1 thing i really dislike is this game could have easily have been 1 game like emerald or platinum or crystal. so if you want to go too all 10 ultra worlds you have to buy both versions. Cheap sales tatics is off putting. Black and white 2 were sequals. 2 versions made sense but this is wackk
 

future.newyorker

Well-Known Member
1 thing i really dislike is this game could have easily have been 1 game like emerald or platinum or crystal. so if you want to go too all 10 ultra worlds you have to buy both versions. Cheap sales tatics is off putting. Black and white 2 were sequals. 2 versions made sense but this is wackk

We don't know that these games aren't sequels. In fact, everything we've seen kinda leads them to be sequels with the exception of living in the exact same house as the protagonist from SM. Perhaps the SM protagonist moved himself, his mom, and her meowth to the Pokémon League, or at least somewhere close to it so that they could defend their title more easily. It's not like she ever finished unpacking anyway, so it would be that difficult of a move. XD.
 

Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
We don't know that these games aren't sequels. In fact, everything we've seen kinda leads them to be sequels with the exception of living in the exact same house as the protagonist from SM. Perhaps the SM protagonist moved himself, his mom, and her meowth to the Pokémon League, or at least somewhere close to it so that they could defend their title more easily. It's not like she ever finished unpacking anyway, so it would be that difficult of a move. XD.

But it's pretty much confirmed that USM protagonists are the same as the protagonists from SM, just with new starting attires. So that more or less makes these games like dual 3rd versions, or the alternate universe theory that people have been talking about.
 

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
I wonder, what if Kartana's area is an area where other Kartana are born? Maybe this area is only some kind of nursery and there are living areas and battle areas we can explore. Maybe it'll have to do with a sidequest where we save fallers.
 

future.newyorker

Well-Known Member
I wonder, what if Kartana's area is an area where other Kartana are born? Maybe this area is only some kind of nursery and there are living areas and battle areas we can explore. Maybe it'll have to do with a sidequest where we save fallers.

I don't see the Ultra Space thing being a side quest. With as much as they are making this game all about "Ultra" everything involving the Ultra Beasts is more likely than not going to be part of the main story.
 

desdar300

Well-Known Member
I'm starting to subcribe to the idea that this is a flip flopped version of the original SM.
> The MC moved to Alola a year or so later
> Lusamine succeeded with her original plan
> We're basically in a Ultra Space version of Alola.
 

KalosChampion

Well-Known Member
Imagine how awesome it would be if USUM was an alternate universe, and at the end you find out that the whole game happened through the wormhole in SM.
 

Shingamon

The flying flame
this has probably already been put in here, but when reading the websites description of the 'new forms' of the legendary pokemon, it seemed to hint that maybe that these aren't the actual main legendarys. this come from the use of the word "reminiscent" in the description. this leads me to guess that maybe these forms could be either Necrozma taking the shape of the Lunala and Solgaleo or, even more wildly, they are other necrozma from the 'other world' that the original came from and then took the forms of the next most powerful or respected being that was in the area. this means that necrozma may actually be a ultra beast and therefore there are more of him (like the multiple ones that we were able to catch of the other ultra beasts) and they have adapted to be more powerful.

I've pasted what it says here for reference

"New Pokémon forms have been found appearing in the world of Pokémon Ultra Sun and Pokémon Ultra Moon. These forms are reminiscent of the Legendary Pokémon that appeared in Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon: Solgaleo, Lunala, and Necrozma. How are these Pokémon related to the Legendary Pokémon that appeared in Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon?"

I'd say that the only problem that this shows (for me) is that, because it mentions it, my theory about necrozma is probably wrong. but i still wanted to put my guess across so...
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
this has probably already been put in here, but when reading the websites description of the 'new forms' of the legendary pokemon, it seemed to hint that maybe that these aren't the actual main legendarys. this come from the use of the word "reminiscent" in the description. this leads me to guess that maybe these forms could be either Necrozma taking the shape of the Lunala and Solgaleo or, even more wildly, they are other necrozma from the 'other world' that the original came from and then took the forms of the next most powerful or respected being that was in the area. this means that necrozma may actually be a ultra beast and therefore there are more of him (like the multiple ones that we were able to catch of the other ultra beasts) and they have adapted to be more powerful.

I've pasted what it says here for reference

"New Pokémon forms have been found appearing in the world of Pokémon Ultra Sun and Pokémon Ultra Moon. These forms are reminiscent of the Legendary Pokémon that appeared in Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon: Solgaleo, Lunala, and Necrozma. How are these Pokémon related to the Legendary Pokémon that appeared in Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon?"

I'd say that the only problem that this shows (for me) is that, because it mentions it, my theory about necrozma is probably wrong. but i still wanted to put my guess across so...

It's actually fairly common for Game Freak to use such descriptions. The best example is back when they revealed Megs Mewtwo Y. Even though it was obviously a new form of Mewtwo, Game Freak used the exact same imprecise language, which lead many to incorrectly speculate that this was "Mewthree." Basically what it comes down is Game Freak doesn't like confirming this ind of thing, and wants the games to explain what it is, even if it's obvious.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I doubt that will happen. Nihilego fusing with someone makes sense because it's a symbiont (hence its codename), so of course it would form symbiotic relationships. Infecting the minds of others via neurotoxins is what it does, and its malleable body lets it overtake their bodies, but other UB's don't really have those qualities. The one that comes closest is Pheromosa thanks the the pheromones it secretes, but even then, its body isn't structured in such a way as to let it fuse with people.

Baically, fusing with people is likely a phenomenon specific to Nihilego and not a trait shared by all Ultra Beasts.

Sorry that this late, but I brought this up once that what happened to Lusamine isn't normal. When a Nihilego attaches to people it's basically like a hat, nothing about it changes. I wish I can remember where I found that official art of it, but that's basically how it looks. What to Lusamine was something irregular, different, and it's never explained why.
 

JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
Sorry that this late, but I brought this up once that what happened to Lusamine isn't normal. When a Nihilego attaches to people it's basically like a hat, nothing about it changes. I wish I can remember where I found that official art of it, but that's basically how it looks. What to Lusamine was something irregular, different, and it's never explained why.

I believe that the full merging with Lusamine was due to the factors I mentioned, but it was more severe with her because of her fragile psyche. The art you mentioned (which I will include a link to below) shows people resisting a swarm of Nihilego, unlike Lusamine who, in a bid for control amidst her loss of faculties, willingly lets it attach to her. It stands to reason that Nihilego could do the same thing with anyone, as long as they were willing to submit to it.


Nihilego Picture: http://i.imgur.com/K8F0PZo.png
 

lolipiece

Pictured: what browsing Serebii does to a person
Staff member
Moderator
I believe that the full merging with Lusamine was due to the factors I mentioned, but it was more severe with her because of her fragile psyche. The art you mentioned (which I will include a link to below) shows people resisting a swarm of Nihilego, unlike Lusamine who, in a bid for control amidst her loss of faculties, willingly lets it attach to her. It stands to reason that Nihilego could do the same thing with anyone, as long as they were willing to submit to it.


Nihilego Picture: http://i.imgur.com/K8F0PZo.png

Those people aren't resisting, per se. They're going wild because of Nihilego's ability to increase negative emotions and the like.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
Sorry that this late, but I brought this up once that what happened to Lusamine isn't normal. When a Nihilego attaches to people it's basically like a hat, nothing about it changes. I wish I can remember where I found that official art of it, but that's basically how it looks. What to Lusamine was something irregular, different, and it's never explained why.

Regardless of if it's normal or not, the fusion was still most certainly rooted in Nihelego's parasitic biology.
 

Briankelly130

Well-Known Member
Something that's been really bugging me is the overall reception this game has gotten over the last couple of months, it's like if it isn't outright hated then people treat it with disdain or showing incredibly low expectations. I get if people are annoyed because it's another "third version" (even though people apparently wanted Pokemon Stars to fill that exact slot) but it's like, there are some people I've seen who until the Lycanroc reveal were assuming that because there was no news since it's announcement, that must mean that GF has no faith in the game, they assume it's going to fail or that there's nothing new or exciting to show off (and in one case, a person thought this was Game Freak's way of punishing the fans for their reaction towards US/UM.

I've said this a couple of times before but for a game that defied expectations, there sure are a lot of people who are ready and willing to write the game off as bad/lackluster based on what /hasn't/ been shown. People continue to assume they know how the game will act, how it will play out and what will or won't be in it even though very few people saw this coming and they clearly haven't learned from past mistakes. People thought there was going to be a Pokemon Grey, instead we got actual sequels to Black/White; people thought we'd get a Pokemon Z and in fact, we got nothing, no third version at all for Gen VI and now with Gen VII, people kept assuming that we were totally going to get either Pokemon Stars or Gen IV remakes and when neither of those happened, a lot of people flipped out. They got angry at this idea they built up in their heads, over stuff they /thought/ was going to happen and once again, people on Youtube, on here (probably) and on the internet as a whole are going around and are quick to act like they know how things will play out and will probably get disappointed again over reality not matching up to what they think will happen. I still even see some people on Youtube act as if the "next logical step" is Gen IV remakes and while I believe we will see Diamond/Pearl remakes, I feel it won't happen until Gen VIII but I might be wrong.

I want to be excited for Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon and for the most part I am, I just wish people were more accepting of these games rather than get angry at what didn't happen, especially the people who wanted Stars since this is basically that exact game (just split into two). So yeah, are most people excited for these games or am I just part of a minority?
 

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
I know I'm excited for these games, now I won't have to reset my game and I get to see a different take on the game like what if these games show us how Gladion and Lillie's lives would've been different if Lusamine never lost her marbles and their dad never vanished but rather retired to Poke Pelago? What if we get to meet at least one of Hau's parents? Or better yet what if we have a dad in this version? There's so many possibilities for this alternate world, I'd even be happy if we just got a few more answers on Looker
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Something that's been really bugging me is the overall reception this game has gotten over the last couple of months, it's like if it isn't outright hated then people treat it with disdain or showing incredibly low expectations. I get if people are annoyed because it's another "third version" (even though people apparently wanted Pokemon Stars to fill that exact slot) but it's like, there are some people I've seen who until the Lycanroc reveal were assuming that because there was no news since it's announcement, that must mean that GF has no faith in the game, they assume it's going to fail or that there's nothing new or exciting to show off (and in one case, a person thought this was Game Freak's way of punishing the fans for their reaction towards US/UM.

I've said this a couple of times before but for a game that defied expectations, there sure are a lot of people who are ready and willing to write the game off as bad/lackluster based on what /hasn't/ been shown. People continue to assume they know how the game will act, how it will play out and what will or won't be in it even though very few people saw this coming and they clearly haven't learned from past mistakes. People thought there was going to be a Pokemon Grey, instead we got actual sequels to Black/White; people thought we'd get a Pokemon Z and in fact, we got nothing, no third version at all for Gen VI and now with Gen VII, people kept assuming that we were totally going to get either Pokemon Stars or Gen IV remakes and when neither of those happened, a lot of people flipped out. They got angry at this idea they built up in their heads, over stuff they /thought/ was going to happen and once again, people on Youtube, on here (probably) and on the internet as a whole are going around and are quick to act like they know how things will play out and will probably get disappointed again over reality not matching up to what they think will happen. I still even see some people on Youtube act as if the "next logical step" is Gen IV remakes and while I believe we will see Diamond/Pearl remakes, I feel it won't happen until Gen VIII but I might be wrong.

I want to be excited for Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon and for the most part I am, I just wish people were more accepting of these games rather than get angry at what didn't happen, especially the people who wanted Stars since this is basically that exact game (just split into two). So yeah, are most people excited for these games or am I just part of a minority?

To some degree, I agree with you. A lot of fans have been jumping to conclusions and expecting Game Freak to give them what they want and give it to them now. But as far as the negative reception in general, if the type of game they wanted has already been ruled out and they have no interest in a third version of Alola, why shouldn't they be negative about it? You don't expect people to just roll over and accept whatever **** Game Freak plops in their lap? This market works by developers making a game that's actually desirable that people want to buy, so if they're not meeting the fans' expectations they shouldn't be buying it.

And frankly, Game Freak had this coming. This is what happens when you take "uniqueness" to a ridiculous extreme, when you have no guarantee of quality or that any of the elements you enjoy about the series will carry over to the next game, negativity and lack of interest is a natural consequence. Wouldn't be surprised at all if that also translates into lack of sales and this game ends up being the worst selling main game of all time.
 

dementeddurian

Love Ball Lover
Anyone curious about the foundation at Route 15 (the one where you get the Poke Ride Sharpedo). I highly doubt they put a photo studio there as well and I reckon there will be a building of some kind in Ultra Sun/Moon.
 

Briankelly130

Well-Known Member
To some degree, I agree with you. A lot of fans have been jumping to conclusions and expecting Game Freak to give them what they want and give it to them now. But as far as the negative reception in general, if the type of game they wanted has already been ruled out and they have no interest in a third version of Alola, why shouldn't they be negative about it? You don't expect people to just roll over and accept whatever **** Game Freak plops in their lap? This market works by developers making a game that's actually desirable that people want to buy, so if they're not meeting the fans' expectations they shouldn't be buying it.

And frankly, Game Freak had this coming. This is what happens when you take "uniqueness" to a ridiculous extreme, when you have no guarantee of quality or that any of the elements you enjoy about the series will carry over to the next game, negativity and lack of interest is a natural consequence. Wouldn't be surprised at all if that also translates into lack of sales and this game ends up being the worst selling main game of all time.

You say people are a little justified in their anger because the game they wanted has been ruled out but if people wanted a third version of Alola, they're getting it, they wanted a game that expanded on the role of Necrozma and that's exactly what US/UM is (from teaser stuff anyway). What more do they want, is it just the "Stars" brand that they wanted, did they want a basic "third version" of the game instead of something a bit different or is it something else entirely because I can't understand the anger from people who wanted Stars, at least not completely.

You then have the people who wanted Gen IV remakes and I'm sorry but I find those people to be amazingly delusional when it comes to that. The gap between HS/SS and OR/AS was 5 years and 2 generations and now people want the next set of remakes to come out only 3 years after the previous one and in the next generation no less; at least FR/LG being Gen 3, it still took 7 years until we get HG/SS so to not only anticipate but to demand that we get Gen IV remakes only 3 years after the last set of remakes is kind of pushing it. Again, I do believe they're coming but I still think it'll be Gen VIII (it goes along with the numerical theming since you had 1-3, 2-4 and 3-6 so 4-8 makes a bit more sense).

I don't think fans should just accept whatever GF puts out or say it's amazing (I myself have issues with Black/White as well as Sun/Moon for being too story heavy and too linear) but I don't think this level of hate is deserving for these games, they're just the third version of Alola but with a slight spin on it. You don't have to like them but I don't think this negativity is, as you call it, a natural consequence. As you mention, people get worried if they fear certain elements of a previous game won't carry over to the next one but hasn't one of the major criticisms of the Pokemon games been that they're too formula-based, at least when it comes to game mechanics; the fighting's the same, the plots are generally the same, the goals are the same (collect a number of "badges", become champion) so unless people are worried about the more game-specific elements, like changing your appearance or Pokemon following you around (which I will never, ever understand why that's such a big thing with people, I don't get why people act as if that one feature is an absolute must) then I don't think they have much to worry about. Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon will play just like every other Pokemon game before it with slight differences and almost nothing removed from Sun/Moon (because the assets are already there, why remove them). Pokemon has basically been the same game for 21 years and still it has a large fanbase, it still has a large adult fanbase who started with Red/Blue so I don't get why this game is the tipping point, it's nothing we haven't seen before so what makes it special, what seperates this game from Platinum or Emerald or Crystal that is making the fans claim this is where they draw the line. If they fear change, then why worry when you've been given no reason to assume great change and if they fear more of the same then again, I go back to my previous question.

I feel part of the problem is this mentality of "It was ok then but not now", you see it with how people react to new Pokemon and how the designs look uninspired but when anyone brings up the simplicity of older designs, you get the line of "It was ok back then but now they should have higher standards" even though we're nearing 1,000 Pokemon and for the most part, they've made all of them look fairly unique and kind of cool (excluding your mainstays like the Pikachu look-alike) and so I think that people are more forgiving of "third versions" from the past because that was the past but now they should be doing something bigger and better even though we're now at a point where alternate universes are a thing, story is getting more focus (I'd say a bit too much focus) and I personally feel that the series has matured in some aspects but I guess in some cases, people only look at the surface level and that's it.

I don't think Pokemon has a problem with being overly unique, I mean, it's not like Final Fantasy where they overhaul the entire thing for every new numbered entry, I think the problem is something of the reverse, it settled into a formula (from a release standpoint, you get the 2 base games, a third improved version and in some cases, a remake) and so after 4 generations of that, people became accustomed to that and so GF tried shaking things up a bit and to be honest, you can kind of see it begin with Gen V because maybe it's just me but I always feel it acted like a new cycle, a new generation. You had the world and standards of the first four generations and then everything changes with Gen V, they begin again and they do new things, they don't give you basic third versions, they give you sequels, they might not do the third version at all or they do whatever US/UM will be because I guess there are some formulas that even the developers get tired of. So I don't think they're being "unique" for the sake of it, I think this is them trying to work things out, see which ideas work and which ones don't, should they go in a more story-based direction or keep the traditional adventure aesthetic and should the generations connect together in a greater sense rather than just a few quick cameos. I will admit that maybe US/UM is more of a growing pain period since I feel they are the culmination of 2 generations creating one long narrative (the one of alternate dimensions and the idea of "Fallers") but purely from a business standpoint, they're not doing anything overly risky and they're not doing anything different, it's just a group of fans being entitled and believing they're being denied what they feel is owed to them.

I'm not saying you have to enjoy it simply because you enjoyed the previous games but I don't think you should attack it for not being what you wanted and if it's not what you want then you're not expected to buy it, Pokemon tends to be a yearly thing now, maybe you'll enjoy what they release next year.
 

Hoennking

Well-Known Member
Holy **** excuse my language but reading some of these posts got my head scratching

Look when the Pokemon direct happened I was very underwhelmed of pokken dx and ultra sun and moon.

I was already lukewarm to Pokemon sun and moon

But never would I go out my way to bad mouth a game that hasn't been released.

Gamefreak makes games on there own time frame. People think they go beg masuda on Twitter or Facebook for d/P remakes or Pokemon stars switch. That's not how it works

Game development for Pokemon games is 2-3 year process. It's not made in a single day and they can announce ot

You can critique game freak and sun and moon.

But you cant threaten then that your not gonna buy the games because they aren't the games I want and mope about it all day on this fourm.

Just don't buy the game with or without you the games will sell millions of copies that's reality

I'm waiting for all the infomation for ultra sun and moon to see if it's worth buying and if I don't like the infomation. I'll skip it and wait for gen 8.

Sorry for rant I'm just and tired of entitled people. It's a kids game. Relax dude
 
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