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Generation by Generation, Degenerating?

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Cenodoxus

SMILE.LIKEYOUMEANIT
Do you think that the quality of Pokémon over the generations has diminished?

It´s true that Nintendo has, for starters, been going back to the same ideas: electric rodents, for one, have made an appearance in every generation, the newest addition being that electric squirrel-thingie. The design of the Pokémon overall seems to be changing, most obvious in the Legendaries. Needless to say, they seem to be getting more complicated and almost looking like Digimon. Some people seem to favor these trends, others claim the opposite.

In anycase, do you think that the Pokémon designs are just getting worse, better, or staying about the same?
 
I just think they're using more ideas than "LOLZ LET'S PICK A RANDOM EENIMAL AND MAKE A POKÉMON BY GIVIN' IT A RANDOM ADD-ON!!!111ONEONEONE", which isn't a bad thing at all.

I just think the fanbase is too encased in a paradigm that's been broken several times already. Get it once and for all: YOU don't say what's a Pokémon. Game Freak does. Plus, Pokémon AREN'T animals! It gets very, very annoying when people preach and complain about those Pokémon that look mechanical and when the designs are, apparently, similar to those in other fandoms such as Digimon. Pokémon can be anything Game Freak says. The End.

Plus... what similarity? Digimon have around 5 more evolutionary levels than Pokémon. And the vast majority of them are awfully complex, outdoing even the most complex of Pokémon. And maybe they're similar because they're based after the same thing? Claydol and Shakkoumon are both based after the Shakkou, a legendary japanese artifact. Pokémon DIDN'T copy Digimon... -_____-

I really like the new designs, as they're more varied and not as unoriginal as they were back then. I just appreciate every Pokémon and accept their existance, without troubling myself with random hatred or nitpickiness such as "ugh... not organic=not Pokémon". Let me laugh... :(
 

Horn Drill

ヘタリア!
I understand what you're saying, and I got the exact same vibe when I first glanced at many of the new 3rd generation Pokemon. However, I warmed up to all of the 3rd Generation Pokemon quickly, and now I see that they are completely and utterly Pokemon in every regard. I'm sure that this same feeling is quickly going to go away for anyone who believes that the the new Pokemon are lesser Pokemon than the old ones once we get used to them.
 

Golden Latios

Plushie Latios
I don't think the Pokemon Games are diminshing every Generation in my opinion. I like how they are advanced with better graphics every time. :p But it seems that sometimes they are just making different type of Pokemon that seem like the older type, though.
 

Reubo

Yeah, baby!
Hmmm, the only problems I have with the designs is that scorpion thing. It looks horrible. And the D/P legendaries look OK IMO, I don't really mind that they look like Digimon, even though I hate Digimon.
 

Shrike Flamestar

Video Game Addict
I think everyone who disses the newer Pokémon are forgetting one key part of Pokémon, they’re Pocket MONSTERS. Everybody seems to go on and on about how the first gen was the best and most original, but when I look back at first gen Pokémon all I see are a bunch of bland animals that can hardly be called original (Charizard, anyone?) with just a few actual monsters mixed in. Now Pokémon designs are getting more complex and designs that actually look like monsters instead of animals are becoming more commonplace. People don’t want to accept this change because of nostalgia for the first generation and an inability to accept anything outside the norm.

While I can’t say I like every single third gen Pokémon, or even what’s been revealed of the fourth gen, I do like a good deal of them; both animalistic and monsterish ones, and even those I don’t like so much I still think are well designed for the most part.
 

Silver Dragonair

OMG internetz
I used to bag on all 3rd gens. Until I warmed up to them also.


But every fourth gen ive seen so far are not too good
 

intergalactic platypus

Only rescues maidens
Each gen had its original and boring pokemon.
First gen had Fearow, Diglett, Oddish, and Goldeen to name a few that bored the crap out of us. On the other hand it had original designs like Mr. Mime, Jynx, Electabuzz, and Slowbro that looked like they had some thought put into them.
Second gen had some truly creative looking pokemon like Gligar, Feraligatr, Dunsparce and Ampharos as well as utterly horrible crap such as Kingdra, Lugia, Sunflora (but not Sunkern), and Jumpluff
Third gen had some real masterpiece pokemon designs like Absol *slaughtered by anti-Absol people*, Tropius, oddly enough Beautifly, and Milotic as well as a few pieces of crap like Plusle/Minun, Gorebyss, Marshstomp, and Luvdisc
Overall, my conclusion is that Johto was the best, but all gens had some good pokemon
 
E

Evanji Axu

Guest
*coughVanessacough*

They're getting better with each generation, though I'm still a tad iffy about D/P. Of my favorites three, two (Mightyena and Milotic) are from RSE, and one (Typhlosion) is from GSC. None are from RBY.
 

AJ Flibble

Emohawk
Meh, I like Machamp, Dewgong, Victreebel, Umbreon, Kingdra, and Dorapion. None are from Hoenn simply because I haven't used them but yet Dorapion is there since I have warmed to it instantly. Part of my favouritism for Kanto (which it isn't, my faves are just from there) is due to nostalgia. My favourites seem to be picked at random and even I don't know why.

Thanks to Dorapion, hope has been restored for generation four. However, that ****ed up squirrel thing could just die for all I care.
 
Orion-Sama said:
I just think they're using more ideas than "LOLZ LET'S PICK A RANDOM EENIMAL AND MAKE A POKÉMON BY GIVIN' IT A RANDOM ADD-ON!!!111ONEONEONE", which isn't a bad thing at all.

I just think the fanbase is too encased in a paradigm that's been broken several times already. Get it once and for all: YOU don't say what's a Pokémon. Game Freak does. Plus, Pokémon AREN'T animals! It gets very, very annoying when people preach and complain about those Pokémon that look mechanical and when the designs are, apparently, similar to those in other fandoms such as Digimon. Pokémon can be anything Game Freak says. The End.

Plus... what similarity? Digimon have around 5 more evolutionary levels than Pokémon. And the vast majority of them are awfully complex, outdoing even the most complex of Pokémon. And maybe they're similar because they're based after the same thing? Claydol and Shakkoumon are both based after the Shakkou, a legendary japanese artifact. Pokémon DIDN'T copy Digimon... -_____-

I really like the new designs, as they're more varied and not as unoriginal as they were back then. I just appreciate every Pokémon and accept their existance, without troubling myself with random hatred or nitpickiness such as "ugh... not organic=not Pokémon". Let me laugh... :(

Wow, Orion, just wow D= That's everything I could ever want to say about this and then some. You really do rock; you took the words straight from my mouth ;;

And yeah, I totally agree with Orion. I enjoy seeing what new ideas Pokémon is putting forth; it shows me that Nintendo isn't afraid to try something different, and that they aren't trying to recreate what they gave us in Kanto. Judging by this Thread, I'd have to say it would be more of a curse than a blessing to a majority of the fans.

I do have some favorites for Kanto, but like AJ's, they were fairly spontaneous. I just recently realized that I love Hypno, and Flareon, Tentacruel, and Poliwrath were hardly any less out-of-nowhere. I dunno why I like them, but I do.....And I think it's interesting how those four are some of the most creative Pokémon from the First Gen; I dislike Pidgeot, Muk, Dewgong, Victreebel, and a fair few of the least original Pokémon Kanto gave us. Had Nintendo given us Pokémon with the same fundamental design as some of the Kanto Pokémon, I would have lost hope in the franchise by the Third Generation; it would obviously not being going anywhere, and I would be disgusted with Nintendo for not taking any chances with one of their most popular franchises.

≈*V Tsun*≈
The 8th Champion
 

Pokemaníaco Desesperado

Normal Coordinator
Have I ever said that I love you, people? Thank you, specially Orion, Shrike and V Tsun, finally I can defend new (and third gen) pokémon instead of just pointing out why do people hate them (so many complicated psychologic things...).
 

Chibi Pika

Stay positive
Hoo boy...
Silverwing;249;: LOOK! It's teh Kanto defender! Let's all pelt her with tomatoes!!! 8D
Zion;157;: *Throws Silverwing into a tomato truck.*

*Ahem.* I find it difficult to voice my opinions in a logical manner because quite simply, likings and opinions are just plain illogical no matter which way you look at it.

Now obviously the game and regions have been getting more fancy with cooja-er add ons and options and graphics and various other whatnots. As far as plotline, I have yet to see any "version" game that doesn't just take the precedent set by Kanto *coughtheyshouldausedthemangaplotlineforFr/Lg* and rehash it with a masquerade of originality. (Although if you expand upon Crystal and Emerald, there's your potential.)

As for the creatures themselves, it all depends on what you see as the heart of the games. A silly concept perhaps, but lets look at it. Kanto's goal was to take the typical creatures we know and equip them with special abilities--the makings of a world with familiar animals suddenly turned extraordinary. Johto took the works and added an extra zing through which the elements were manifested in their appearance, but unfortunately often resorted to cartoon-esque creatures that pushed the limit in order to attain "originality." And Hoenn allowed the creatures to no longer be restrained by reality or even by the general definition of what appears to be "living" with inorganic and fantastically complex creatures mixed between a rehash of old creations with so much extra fluff and add-ons that some of them looked like Nintendo was trying to see how much paint they could throw around.

But when you look at it deeper, two words keep coming up: complexity and originality. Two absurdly overrated concepts.

There are Pokemon that aren't very complex but have an unusual and original aspect about them such as Dunsparce, Gligar, Lugia, Typhlosion, Mewtwo, Blastiose, Venusaur, Slowbro, Exeggutor, Nidoking/Nidoqueen, Hypno, Lickitung, Scyther, Kabutops, Girafarig, Delibird, Breloom, Nosepass, Absol, Tropius, Unown, ect...

Less in number are the Pokemon that aren't very original, but have complex designs such as Walrein, Kyogre, Ho-oh, Swalot, Xatu, Beautifly, Seviper, Gyarados, ect...

And then there are Pokemon that have that rare look--something fantastic and detailed, yet not overdone or obvious, such as Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Lugia, Blaziken, Sceptile, Swampert, Ampharos, Tyranitar, Metagross, the Latis, Flygon, Magmar, Jirachi, Ludicolo, Exploud, Mawile, Deoxys, ect...

I really don't like a lot of those Pokemon up there, but I'm willing to admit that some of them do succeed in certain areas. People have an annoying tendency to take Pokemon they don't like and label them as uncreative or boring. And yes, I do realize that quite a few in the final list are Hoenn. Hoenn perfected the balance between original and complex, but not without crossing the line or betraying the general look of the series in other Pokemon.

But then, what is originality? Or obviousness, for that matter? Charizard is unoriginal because a fire-breathing dragon is, well, obvious. But how about something thast strikes me as unoriginal, like Walrein (Dewgong shares the unoriginality, yes, but Walrein has complexity going for him). An icy walrus. More obvious than a fire dragon? You might think most certainly not, but is it just because dragons are popular? Is popularity all that really determines originality? Walruses aren't the most widely liked creatures around, so does that make them more original than dragons? Let's try Ho-oh. A fiery phoenix. Kinda obvious eh? But complexity always seems to overwhelm (and often get mistaken) for originality. Originality in my opinion, is just something that makes you think "where the hell did they come up with that idea?"

Okay, I'll cut the rhetorics and move on.

Digimon have a certain "look" as do monsters from Yu-Gi-Oh. Digimon tend to be mechanical/robotic, and Yu-Gi-Oh monsters tend to have a crapload of incessant armor and frizzles and detail and such. Pokemon, on the other hand, have freedom of variety and no set standards. But look at the list of Pokemon that are original but not all that complex. Random pointless frills and whatnots don't make Pokemon original--the idea does. It's like what they always tell you in art class: when you're done, you're done...don't add anything that doesn't need to be there.

But then what are the limits on the idea? Popularity? Conventionality? I may not like Pokemon like the Regis and Claydol and such, but they're still within the reaches of the concept of "Pokemon." I'm just afraid that that boundary will be pushed in the pursuit of originality. When you get right down to it, the majority of Pokemon are animalistic. Is that a bad thing?

Pidgeot and Fearow are the mascots of the unoriginality club, so I'll pay them a visit. And we'll bring their cousin Swellow, who is spared from that. But wait--isn't Swellow just an ordinary Normal/Flying bird like them? But wait--it's blue with a white underside and red feet/tail tips and a yellow beak. So now color determines originality? oO (BTW, I like Swellow's look, but I just needed an example.) Color often determines complexity, and in pursuing false complexity, Game Freak sometimes just throws the paint bucket around. Other times, color is mixed with add-ons, but within reason to create the members of our third list up there.

So what am I getting at? Actually, I have no idea. I just felt like ranting incoherently. And I think some of my paragraphs contradicted others. ><

I like Kanto. No, I don't want all Pokemon to be boring and with a complete lack of complexity. But I don't want a bird that is just a bird to be labeled as unoriginal. We're getting spoiled. Back then, Pokemon WERE animals. Energy-based, but still animals. Each generation expands the definition of Pokemon, but to what extent?

I'll say this, though--Pokemon are alive, and that is something that will never change. Well, that and that a human in a fancy costume doesn't count as a monster *coughunlikeDigimonandYuGiOh* The thing I am dreading most is a Pokemon that is indeed a robot. Not just robotic-looking, or a non-animalistic creature that could still be considered living, cause there you have Registeel. I even like to think of Porygon as not having been truly man-made, but rather more energy-unstable than other Pokemon, and therefore able to move through cyberspace. And how about Geodude? Rocks aren't alive, yet Geodude is. I don't mind Pokemon that resemble unliving things, because they themselves, are still living, no matter how you look at it.

Hoenn held up that standard. It may have challenged it aesthetically, but it narrowly avoided breaking it. So far, the Fourth generation has, as well.

Note the "so far".

~Chibi~;249;;rukario;
 
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PDL

disenchanted
the element that separetes pokemon from other monsters from other fandoms is hard to describe, but it's there, and I'll try my best to describe it.

It's like the main idea in creation of Pokemon is that they're supposed to be your "friends". It's a concept that's often looked over by many fans, but it's best explained by comparing it to other fandoms' monsters.

Now, in YGO, the monsters are merely pawns in your duel and they're often sacrificed or discarded to make way for stronger more powerful creatures, there's no deep connection between the player and the game characters. They're merely souless beings with no choice, made to follow their master's orders.

In Digimon, there's a connection between the human and the monster, however, it's more like a relationship between a human and a pet, rather then a relationship of equals. As it is in pokemon.

Every pokemon, from the strongest to the weakest has been given some kind of personality, much like you would find in any character from other fandoms.

As long as it has a unique personality, a Pokemon can be whatever Game Freak wants one to be.
 

Glowstick_cult

Well-Known Member
Okay, okay, the 3rd gen had some creative designs, but really, I still prefer the Kanto pokemon.

The Kanto pokemon were much more mature looking, easily appealing to an older audience. Johto was fun too (even though most pokemon were either 'really cute' or 'really cool' looking, and there wasn't much in between. Beside Quilava.)
Hoenn Pokemon, whilst some of the designs were nice an' all, just didn't cut it for me. I thought the vast majority were kinda stupid looking. Not because they didn't resemble anything I knew of, because they were kinda... ugly.

That's it. I said it. Hoenn pokemon are ugly.

Yes, originality is there, by all means. If anything, it's there more than ever, but what happened to incorporating originality into appealing design?
 

-=Darkness of Umbreon=-

<-winning with it
I know i'm going to be slapped for this, but first, I don't think they are degenerating, being that I like the new ones as well. though, I prefer the Kanto becuase most are UU and I just have my favs from there. though my biggest favorite comes from Johto, but starts in Kanto. That, is up to you to find out.
 

Cenodoxus

SMILE.LIKEYOUMEANIT
Don´t attack me people. I was just sayin´.

Anyways, I find it interesting that the vast majority that has posted likes or at least accepts the Hoenn Pokémon, as apparently such a great number of people think that the design of the monsters has gone down the drain.

Personally, I have nothing against the third and fourth generations except for certain cases where I´d like to torch the goddamn squirrel thingie. Though I believe that Nintendo needs to let go of certain, boring trends in generations, such as an electric rodent always having to be there, on the most part they have innovated greatly with a gradual evolution in design and concept--not just on how the Pokémon look, but on how they act, what they can do and the entire world surrounding them in general. It´s invitable that Pokémon created more than ten years ago and Pokémon that are coming out in a few months will look different. If we forced GameFreak to stick to similar designs for more than 400 Pokémon over the course of ten years or so, the series would eventually grow very stale. It started off with animals expanded into powerful beings, continued into overexaggerated creatures and now seems to be going for both.

In the end, there is always going to be a fan of even the most abhorred Pokémon, and as long as there is then everything else is nothing but personal opinion.

PDL said:
In Digimon, there's a connection between the human and the monster, however, it's more like a relationship between a human and a pet, rather then a relationship of equals. As it is in pokemon.

Every pokemon, from the strongest to the weakest has been given some kind of personality, much like you would find in any character from other fandoms.

Perhaps, but Pokémon still spend much of their time trapped in airtight balls and when they are let out it´s to battle another Pokémon by following the exact instructions of their trainer.

...Wait, why am I talking in my own poll?
 

Cascade of the Sky

Cascade Gonpory!
i think in some cases, the pokemon as they come in new batches as Generation, are getting better. They look, cooler, more advanced and interesteting. Over time, even with Hoenn and Johto, the pokemon sort of blended with the origional 151! i look back and see kecleon, and think.. was that from johto? seriously. But yeah, some ideas repeat them selves... but i think thats cool, they Are pokemon, meaning, they are all, somewhere along the line, going to look alike. Or else pokemon wouldn't be very... Pokemon would it? I think with the new 2 legendaries, Diaruga and Parukia (sp*?) we need to take into account that they are GOD pokemon. Therefore, they need to be.. IMPORTANT looking. I think it does justice for them, and no, i don't think they look like digimon, That fench pokemon site that re-drew them made them look like digimon, but, i think they look VERY MUCH Pokémon-ish! I just wonder, would the sprites be really really big? :p joking...

ive noticed, that alot of the new 4th gen don't look as "Complicated" and Digimon like as people like to add, most of these roumers came when we had sillouettes and amll 4 X 4 pixeled images. :p Take this for example, Munchlax, Mime Jr., Bonsly, Weavile, Lucario, Manaphy, Bouysel, Tamanta, Perap, Pachirisu and Cherimu look VERY much like pokemon. I have my doupts with Dorapion, but i have a hunch that this is a stage 1 evo of gligar! (but this is not theories thread)!

have i explained my self well enough? - no, i don't think they are getting worse.. i think they are getting much better and over time, we'll look back, and see them as Pokemon, and that is all :p
 

Yamato-san

I own the 5th gen
I don't get where this "Digimon" comparison keeps coming in. Digimon tend to have complicated designs, true, but so do several monsters from RPG (or other games), card, or anime franchises.

Orion-Sama said:
I just think the fanbase is too encased in a paradigm that's been broken several times already. Get it once and for all: YOU don't say what's a Pokémon. Game Freak does. Plus, Pokémon AREN'T animals! It gets very, very annoying when people preach and complain about those Pokémon that look mechanical and when the designs are, apparently, similar to those in other fandoms such as Digimon. Pokémon can be anything Game Freak says. The End.

actually, Pokemon are animals. They were conceived from Tajiri's intentions to recreate his days of catching tadpoles and bugs in modern times. Given, there are the occasional oddities... golems, the token RPG mimic (Biriridama), but as Chibi Pika said, they're all portrayed as living things that tend to exist in nature.

Anyway, about the complexity of the designs... personally, I don't care. If a Pokemon appeals to me, it appeals to me, no matter how unoriginal some say it is or how closely it resembles its real life-basis. Hell, some of the normal/flying types appeal to me because they resemble real birds of prey (which carry a nice fierceness about them) so well, and I hardly mind the simple concept of super-powering animals in the first generation. As you can expect, I didn't have much of a problem with 2nd or 3rd generation Pokemon, neither, and I certainly don't have any complaints about the 4th generation. Hell, my only major complaint is how blatant they had to make Plusle and Minun out to be Pikachu clones (although, positive and negative charges were a good concept). Now, I'll agree that Pachirisu looks like it's gonna be next generation's Pikachu, but I hardly mind, because it doesn't seem to be as blatant of a clone as Plusle and Minun were.
 

Dark Espeon

Well-Known Member
Do you think that the quality of Pokémon over the generations has diminished?

It´s true that Nintendo has, for starters, been going back to the same ideas: electric rodents, for one, have made an appearance in every generation, the newest addition being that electric squirrel-thingie. The design of the Pokémon overall seems to be changing, most obvious in the Legendaries. Needless to say, they seem to be getting more complicated and almost looking like Digimon. Some people seem to favor these trends, others claim the opposite.

In anycase, do you think that the Pokémon designs are just getting worse, better, or staying about the same?

Gotta agree, gotta agree. It is gettting freakin' crappier every time, and I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking some of these Pokes are start to look like freakin' Digimon. That new squirrel thing is unoriginal - it may be a squirrel but then, squirrels are rodents, so not original at all. They should try an electric tree or eel instead or something.

I am totally against some of these modern, cyber-looking Pokemon that do not look at all like real creatures, i.e. Rayquaza, Deoxys and those two new legendaries things look very very computarized and not at all like a real creature/Pokemon.

On the other hand, I favor a few oddities, like Dorapion or whatever its name is and Cherimu or whatever, which look rather original to me, and there are still quite a few, like Weavile and Lucario, that look like real Pokemon.

So while some designs are getting sloppy and cyber-y, others are pretty good, so it's nevertheless balancing out, which is always a good thing.
 
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