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Ghost/Dark: A Type Combination for the Ages

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Hauntershadow92, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    The idea of this team is to make use of the best (in my opinion) type combination in the game; Ghost/Dark. Between these two types, all weaknesses are covered. I tend to play mono-type battles, so this style was right up my alley. Here is the team.

    Note: I am really interested in Rotation Battles. I have never played one before, outside of in-game, and I was wondering if this team is viable. If not, what are some viable Ghost/Dark/Normal Pokemon for a Rotation battle and strategies involved?

    Now for the team:


    Gengar @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Trick
    - Hypnosis
    - Destiny Bond
    - Shadow Ball
    I usually lead with Gengar. This is a set that I (think) made up myself. While I did actually make it up myself, I'm not totally sure if this has been done before. Trick + Black Sludge cripples pretty much everything but Poison types while still being beneficial for Gengar. Combine this with Tyranitar's Sand Stream and the Burn status that is prevalent on my team, damage will add up quickly. Hypnosis provides me with a turn to get my bearings and choose where to go from there. Since it usually forces switches, especially after a Trick, it is pretty usefull. Destiny Bond is for when I know I'm going to get KOed, but don't have the easiest of switches. Shadow Ball is for STAB and something to attack with.


    Sableye @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Recover
    - Will-o-Wisp
    - Substitute
    - Taunt

    Before I posted this here, I was running a TormentTran set on this: Tormet, Recover, Confuse Ray and Substitute. While this worked exceptionally well, allowing me to 1v1 Garchomp, it did not fit the team. That kind of set really needs hazards because it promotes a lot of switching. This set is the fairly standard Sableye set and helps me to dimish certain physical threats as well as preventing too many entry hazards from piling up. Will-o-Wisp + Recover allows Sableye to handle most physical threats, even with his poor stats. Substitute is great for scouting moves and creating a barrier in case of a switch and a miss of Will-o-wisp. Taunt is to prevent being Taunt bait.


    Umbreon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Wish
    - Heal Bell
    - Protect
    - Foul Play
    Umbreon is my team's pseudo-support as well as full on support. I use Umbreon to absorb status that is flung at me. Since I carry Heal Bell and Sychronize, I can safely switch into a predicted Will-o-wisp or toxic, shoot it back to them, and then heal off the status with Heal Bell. Wish and Protect gives healing powers to Umbreon and team. Foul Play is a great move to use when facing off against attacking threats, and even gets rid of the pesky Espeon and Xatu who make my Sableye and status heavy team angry.


    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Rest
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sleep Talk
    - Hex
    Cofagrigus is my physical wall as well as Hazer Having Mummy and being a physical wall is quite an awesome ability. While Scizor may be a common threat, Cofagrigus basically nullifies him, especially Technician varients. The Will-o-wisp/Hex strategy is a strategy that is surprisingly scarce. While it may not hit as hard all the time garunteed, like Shadow Ball, when you are facing off someone with status, Cofagrigus hits very hard, much harder than you would think.


    Golurk @ Life Orb
    Trait: No Guard
    EVs: 48 Hp / 252 Attack / 208 Speed
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Dynamic Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Rock Polish

    or

    Weavile @ Ice Gem / Life Orb
    Trait: Pickpocket
    EVs: 32 Hp / 252 Attack / 220 Speed
    Jolly nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Pursuit
    - Ice Punch
    - Low Kick

    I'm not entirely sure on this spot. Both Pokemon fill this role really well and have given me nothing to complain about. I like Golurk because first he is awesome, and second he can boost his speed. On the other hand, Weavile hits just a little bit softer, but starts off much faster. Pickpocket is also an interesting spin, but I'm not sure if I will really be able to pull it off. I'm leaning towards Golurk, but opinions are welcome!

    Jellicent @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 174 Hp / 252 SpAtk / 84 Speed
    Careful Nature
    - Water Spout / Hydro Pump / Surf / Scald
    - Brine / Trick
    - Shadow Ball
    - Ice Beam / Giga Drain
    Choice Specs Jellicent. Not many people actually expect it. I put this in over Sharpedo because I needed something that could handle walls and attack on the special side. Jellicent hits hard with Shadow Ball and Surf, but even harder with Water Spout. He is my main counter to Rain teams, who have otherwise been a nuisance. Note: I'm not sure if Jellicent fits this team. Perhaps I can opt Surf/Hydro Pump and put in Trick. I'm not sure. I know this set has uber amounts of choices, but really it boils down to what water move fits this set best, whether Trick is a good idea and whether I need Ice Beam or Giga Drain. Thanks!


    Before I go on to my threat list, this is by far the best battle I've had with this team: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14263870
    (I have since updated the team, but haven't gotten around to getting a good battle. It is hard to concentrate when you are in class haha)

    This is the most recent battle I had: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-15505676
    While it is against a non-standard team (mono-ghost), it is my team's main weakness. And while I should have lost, this was a great battle. My biggest threat, I realized, is Chandelure. It has an attack for EVERY member on my team. That thing is powerful.

    Threat List:
    -Chandelure. With access to Fire Blast, Shadow Ball and Energy Ball, this Pokemon can sweep my entire team. Umbreon can effectively take it out is 2 hits, but getting those two hits in is hard. If the sun is up, game over. To be honest, I don't think there is much to do. Its high SpAtk is hard to beat.

    Things to note:
    -I hate demanding things, but I would really appreciate it if you kept suggestions to the Ghost and Dark types. I will accept Normal type as I eventually want to include Normal types into my teams. But limit it to one for now. Thanks!


    -I appreciate really gimmicky sets. Don't be afraid to suggest something totally against the norm. I used to run (and still have) a Stall team that ended with a Belly Drum Slowbro sweep. Fun stuff. I play for fun, so yeah! (It is also so much fun to watch people scream at you for using gimmicks and then them losing).


    -I want to turn this team into a Rotation team. I have never played so I have no idea if this is viable. I figured the combination of types would make it viable, as well as the set-up of status and stuff. But again, I have no idea.


    Thank you so much for reading and helping! I haven't played a true team in a while that I enjoyed. I've played a Ghost monotype, but it didn't work nearly as well. As well as other bog standard teams. Thanks again!
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  2. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    Nothing? You guys have nothing for me?
     
  3. Moog2

    Moog2 Must stay awake...

    Okay, I've got a few suggestions. Take them or not, but feedback's feedback. :p

    For Cofagrigus, I think I'd recommend a RestTalk set with Will-o-Wisp and Shadow Ball. This really limits your weakness to Breloom by providing ideal sleep fodder, and still allows you to spread status and attack.

    I would also recommend the obvious Hydreigon. You could run a Choiced set, a Life Orb set, or an Expert Belt bluffing set depending on your preference. It has fantastic coverage, and I'm hesitant to recommend a moveset; tailor it to suit exactly what you want it to do. Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Surf, Dark Pulse, Earth Power, Earthquake, Superpower, Focus Blast and even Roost are some of the highlights. This can be used over Jellicent, if you like the idea, though I admit that rain teams will then proceed to screw you over.

    If you aren't against gimmicks, Icy Wind can be one hell of a surprise on Gengar. Not only does it lower the opponent's speed, but it KO's offensive Dragonite and Salamence after Stealth Rock. It doesn't quite manage the Stealth Rock KO on Garchomp, but hitting it on the switch would make things interesting. I'd probably replace Hypnosis with it if I were you, as the accuracy turns me away. But that's just me, I'm a fan of the good ol' Sub Disable set, but Icy Wind might be neat to try here.

    Speaking of Stealth Rock, there are precisely 2 fully evolved potential set-uppers that are Dark/ Ghost in typing. The first is Bisharp, but frankly I think you're better off not switching it into your team. The second it Tyranitar, which I really think you should consider. I'd recommend switching it to the Specially Defensive variety, with some combination of the moves Stealth Rock, Crunch, Pursuit, Fire Blast, Ice Punch, Stone Edge, and Superpower. Max HP, Max Sp. Def. Or go with Max HP, Max Att, up to you.

    I think that's about it. Whether or not this advice is any good or not, well, I hope it at least gave you something to do.

    Cheers! :D
     
  4. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    This will be highly considered. I'm not entirely sure if I want to get rid of Haze, but it is something that I will consider and test. I never thought of that haha.

    I'm going to have to deny this one however. Jellicent was put on this team specifically with Rain teams in mind. I'll run some tests and see if a custom Hydreigon can handle STAB Hydro Pumps in the rain, then I'll consider changing. But for now, Jellicent it is!

    I really like this suggestion. As I'm running this team on for the International tournament, I think I'll test this out. While I know this team has nothing to do with Doubles, I still will use it haha. I'll check this idea out!

    I'll consider this. The passive damage will be good for this team, but I'm not sure if I want to switch over my Tyranitar to support. I would be lacking a physical attacker. I'll consider some sort of attacking, Support crossover.

    Thanks for the help, it was actually fairly helpful!
     
  5. Moog2

    Moog2 Must stay awake...

    Okay, glad it was helpful. And that you picked those two pieces of advice to consider, as they were the two I liked the most as well.

    Good luck! ^_^
     
  6. PikaPalace

    PikaPalace Random Master

    Considerations: Replacing a Pokemon for Froslass as he can set up hazards.
    Sableye and also Liepard can run this set: 252Hp / 252 Def / 4SpD > Swagger, Foul Play, Substitute, Recover (Sableye) and T-Wave (Liepard)
     
  7. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    I will consider Froslass over Gengar. I do like having Spikes (and perhaps if I run it with SR it would do more that Gengar's Black Sludge). Froslass basically has the same role as Gengar, with a bit of a difference.

    As for Sableye or Liepard, I prefer Sableye. It is a little bulkier and has access to Will-o-Wisp. Thanks though!

    I also changed Jellicent around. I gave it 252 Hp / 84 SpAtk / 172 SpDef and a Careful nature so it can take things like Keldeo and Gyarados, the hardest hitting things in the Rain. And while Kingler hits harder than Gyarados, Kingler's only real attack against Jellicent is X-Scissor, which is resisted. So yeah. I also added Brine over Surf as Brine works incredibly well when Water Spout isn't strong enough anymore.
     
  8. CedOmega

    CedOmega 4570-7932-5223

    Hello Haunstershadow92, very interesting team you have here. I admire the theme of a dual-type Dark and Ghost team.

    That said, I can see a few notable changes that may help. I'll try and relieve Tyranitar of its current physically offensive pressure.

    First, I suggest testing out RP Golurk, as it is often underestimated as an OU Pokémon and recieved a great ability in No Guard during the B/W to B/W2 transition. No Guard coupled with its access to moves such as all Stone Edge, the elemental punches, STAB Earthquake, Dynamic Punch & Rock Polish means it can potentially plow through opposing. When I was a Mono-Ghost Gym leader for a Facebook operated group, I used a custom spread of 48 Hp/ 252 Attack/208 Speed which, with an Adamant nature, outpaced all base 130 Pokémon after ×1 Rock Polish. Life Orb is the prefered item to help add sime extra power behing each attack. Using a set of Earthquake, Ice Punch, Dynamic Punch & Rock Polish, Golurk can OHKO/2HKO everything needed.

    :623:
    Golurk@Life Orb
    Trait: No Guard
    Adamant nature
    48 Hp/252 Attack/208 Speed
    Earthquake, Dynamic Punch, Ice Punch, Rock Polish

    Another consideration would be Weavile, whose base 125 Speed allows it to trap and revenge effectively. Access to such useful OU niches like Ice Shard, Pursuit, and Low Kick, Weavile makes a great contender for the team. Also of use is its Dream World ability, Pickpocket, which can be utilized throught the use of Gems and Focus Sash. With a standard spread of 32 Hp/ 252 Attack/ 220 Speed, Weavile reaches the speed to outpace and trap needed threats. In addition to this, Weavile also provides your team a solution to opposing Dark types like non-Scarfed Hydreigon and Gengar. I suggest using a spread of Ice Shard, Pursuit/Night Slash, Ice Punch & Low Kick to make the best of what it can offer.

    ;manyula;
    Weavile@Life Orb(Pressure)/Focus Sash, Dark, Ice or Fighting Gem(Pickpocket)
    Trait: Pickpocket/Pressure
    Jolly nature
    32 Hp/252 Attack/220 Speed
    Ice Shard, Pursuit/Night Slash, Ice Punch & Low Kick

    Next, I'd like to suggest using Unnerve Tyranitar if ever you find yourself being crippled by your Sand being set up.

    Lastly, I'd like to list a simple list of other options for the team:
    •Hydreigon
    •Froslass
    •Drifblim
    •Bisharp
    •Dusclops
    •Chandelure
    •Mandibuzz
    •Sharpedo
    •Zoroark
    •Honchkrow

    Hope this was of some help and good luck with the team. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  9. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    Hmm, interesting set. I'll play around with this. I'm not the biggest fan of Tyranitar, so I'll look into this. And, Golurk also learns SR if I really want to incorporate SR. So thanks for the excellent suggestion!

    Honestly, once I saw Pickpocket, I knew I had to come up with a moveset for that. And you sir (or madam) have helped me with that! I really enjoy this set and think this might actually replace Tyranitar. I'll do some testing, as per usual, but will probably settle with this.

    I'm going to say no, unfortunately. If I am going to use TTar, it is helpful with Sand. It gets rid of Sun and Rain which harm me way more than the residual damage sand does. So yeah. I have considered Unnerve, but there really isn't a better advantage to using it.

    I like to run my teams like gyms. I used to be a gym leader, clan leader and E4 member on these forums. I like to limit myself to a few types, in this case Ghost/Dark (and soon normal). I create as many Pokemon in that type that I want to use, create a foundation team and then rotate the Pokemon. So while those Pokemon won't really be featured in this specific team, I plan on using most, if not all, of those you have listed. It changes things up and makes things a bit more fun. And ironically, it is more fun to do this in the physical game than on simulators.

    Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!
     
  10. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    If you use a specs Jellicent... at least give it max SAtk... Modest nature... And Water Spout with Sand Stream? seems a bit odd don't it? You can't guarantee an opponent toed. Aside from that, nice synergy, nice team.
     
  11. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    I'm really just trying to figure out a spread that still has power, but can also switch into things.
     
  12. I-am-the-peel

    I-am-the-peel Justice Forever

    Comments in bold. Interesting team; a lot of pokemon could be used here like Froslass, but you'll need to decide which pokemon play which role on the team, and decide whether you'll mainly be sweeping asap, or bulky sweeping, or stalling. Your Cofagrigus is a good staller, but could do with some support (It could receive that with Umbreon if it runs baton pass + boosting move and wish, but again, that's just an option) that is needed from a bulky team/all out offensive fast sweepers. Still, I don't know that much about ghost monotype teams, so you can take my suggestions with a grain of salt :)
     
  13. CedOmega

    CedOmega 4570-7932-5223

    Have you considered Trick Specs Jellicent?

    Jellicent@Choice Specs
    Trait: Water Absorb
    Modest nature
    172 Hp/ 252 Sp.Attack/ 84 Speed
    Water Spout/Hydro Pump, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam/Giga Drain, & Trick
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  14. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    I think I'll stick to my Gengar set. It is effective and I have had no issues with it.

    Well, its main role is a Special Wall, but it acts as support with Wish and Heal Bell. Baton Pass is fairly unnecessary in my opinion. I may get rid of Protect for Baton Pass, but I will see.

    Fair enough. I was thinking about switching this with Weavile, so after a bit of testing I will get back to you on the Fire Punch.

    Water Spout is optimal on this set. It hits exceptionally hard. The reason I use Brine is because it hits harder than the other attacks. If I understand it correctly, Brine and Water Spout work very well together. Once my HP gets to half, Water Spout isn't hitting hard, but Brine is hitting just about as hard (130) as Water Spout was. It has good synergy, but I may be understanding things incorrectly. I would also think Shadow Ball would hit much harder against electrics than Energy Ball. I'll consider HP Fire, but considering this is my answer to Rain, I don't think HP Fire would be so great. I'm also considering the next option below.

    Sounds good to me. Trick lets me deal with Ferrothorn. The only thing is I'm not entirely sure about Water Spout or Hydro Pump here. I like to have a back up Water move for when my Hp goes down and the inaccuracy of Hydro Pump is faulty at best. I will consider this though, as Giga Drain is a good choice.

    Thanks for the replies guys! I will run some tests after I finish this homework and then report back with my findings and a possible rework of the team.
     
  15. Hauntershadow92

    Hauntershadow92 The Mono-type Man

    A quick bump, outlining the changes I've made.

    Gengar, Sableye and Umbreon are staying the same. I've tested Baton Pass on Umbreon and I am significantly missing Protect. Baton Pass doesn't really help out too much. I fully comprehend Froslass' potential on this team, but I want to stick with Gengar for a bit more. They perform about the same role, but Gengar has Trick and Black Sludge. There is no real reason to switch out Sableye as his job can't really be fulfilled by anything else and does it incredibly well.

    Cofagrigus is now carrying Rest and Sleep Talk over Haze and Pain Split. While Sleep Talk isn't the best option, and I would almost prefer Pain Split/Haze, it is incredibly helpful to have.

    I have replaced Tyranitar with either Golurk or Weavile. I'm not entirely sure which one I want more. Weavile is faster and a better trapper, especially since my team is completely wrecked by Chandelure, however, Golurk serves very well as a late game sweeper. Dynamic Punch also provides an awesome Confusion guarantee. So it is a toss up.

    I have changed Jellicent's EV spread back to the Smogon standard. My custom build wasn't the best and didn't really accomplish what I wanted. I've decided to test Trick out. I'm not sure if that is the best option, as that basically limits me to one water move, and I would not want Water Spout if I had that.

    In addition, I've realised that Chandelure is actually the biggest threat to my team. Its two STABs hit my entire team incredibly hard. If it is running Energy Ball, then Golurk and Jellicent can't handle it. Honestly, I doubt there is much I can do about it with its incredibly high SpAtk. But suggestions are welcome.

    Now I know that this isn't a standard OU team, but this battle is against a mono-ghost team which is a great test, considering 4/6 team members are weak. http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-15505676 I am on the far side.

    Anyone else have other suggestions, improvements, comments? Spot any glaring weaknesses that I have yet to encounter? Thanks!
     

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