Given Iris/Cynthia battle how would you rank Iris now in the PWC?

[thedarkdragon11]

I'll rank everyone so that you can see the picture:

As of end of R1:

1. Leon
2. Cynthia
3. Diantha
4. Ash (it's kinda hard to rank him since we have yet to see him use his overall Top 6)
5. Lance
6. Steven (ranked him lower than Lance and higher than Iris because he lost to but performed better than Iris against Ash)
7. Iris
8. Alain

 

[Ragnarok4]

The narrative made it clear, these are the four best in the world. Position one depends on who is the champion.

1) Leon & Ash
3) Cynthia
4) Diantha, Steven
6) Lance
7,8) Alain, Iris

The anime has shown that Lance has been a world champion and was in the final of the last world championship, narratively he should be stronger than Iris & Alain

Steven, Cynthia were in the Top 3 and Diantha proved her power entering the top 4 in the world

Iris gave Cynthia a good fight but that's not enough to put her above the other champions and Alain is just strong, although there's not enough evidence to say objectively Iris > Alain.

So far we only know that Alain managed to get to 6th place and Iris the 7th place, so they are in equal conditions, I guess.

 

[Ragnarok4]

For me there are three noticeable tiers in the top 8 champions, with how the battles are it seems any champion can get the best of the other at any point of day:

Tier 1: Iris, Alain and Lance come under this, and Id argue Paul can come under this as well, and maybe Flint and Raihan
Tier 2: Diantha, Steven, Cynthia (Steven is here because he faced Ash and is top 3 plus his XYZ showings)
Tier 3: Leon and Ash

This is by far the best ranking I've ever seen as ranking them by "tiers" is safer since between Steven, Diantha and Cynthia anyone could win (but with Cynthia still having a slight advantage, especially against Steven). The battle between them could happen in any way and everything depends on who comes up with the best strategy at the time. The only thing that would change would be Lance's position, I know he did a horrible battle but still due to some of his previous titles as world champion in the unova region i would place him above Iris and alain

 

[AJ97]

Lance just seemed really weak to me in general, pretty much zero strats and trying to brute force. Couple that with him losing his championship status, being an elite 4 member in start of JN and than being the new champion Johto and Kanto kinda screams to me he isn't that strong.

1) Lance was 2nd in the PWC last season. There's no reason to assume that all the other Regional Champions were not in the Master Class before. If anything, it would be a stretch to assume all the Regional Champions joined the same time Ash did.


2) We don't even know whether he "Lost his championship status". This is just an assumption. If anything, there's far more reasonable to assume that he probably stepped down due to his G-Men activities or some other reasons and reclaimed the position (Because, if there was a Champion who was relative to Lance in Strength, why isn't he or she is in the PWC Master Class)?

3) Lance's strategy was not exactly "Brute Force". He was more adamant on relying on "Dragonite's" Tankiness and offensive prowess. This is something that we've even seen Ash use at times. This literally helps Lance against a 4X type advantaged Pokemon Initially and would've probably even helped against Mega Gardevoir if Diantha hadn't made the prediction in the end as Lance lowers Gardevoir's speed with the initial Max strike and would've Hit Diantha with a Point Blank Hyper Beam (If she hadn't dodged and directly powered up her Moon blast).

Honestly the fact she's still top 4 seems like a pretty straight answer by the narrative to me. She'll obviously be destroyed by Leon, but I still believe she deserves to be put above Iris, Alain and Lance.

Isn't this you literally contradicting your own point lol?
You initially called Lance weak and in the low tier among the Regional Champions, then why would a win against him put her on a tier against Arguably tougher champions?

As for your earlier point about Leon and Cynthia, I think I'll honestly bump Cynthia up to the Leon and Ash tier

There's literally no objective reason to do this.

As to why Ash is at the top? Come on man, he's gonna win the whole thing and be the strongest monarch. He deserves to be there

Again not necessarily. We don't know whether Ash is going to win or even push Leon. We can only conclude this after watching the two actually batter. However, I guess it is reasonable to assume Ash at the very least will likely be Leon's tough challenger.


So the final tier list would be:

Tier S: Leon, Ash
Tier A: Cynthia, Steven
Tier B: Lance
Tier C: Iris, Alain

If Diantha pushes Leon to go all out, she'd jump to Tier S. If she performs relatively well, she'd be tier A. If she's crushed, she'd likely be in Team B.

Diantha would have to do worse than Alain against Leon to fall to Tier C and this would also automatically bring Lance to the same tier.

 

[HatersGonnaHate]

I agree with Diantha having the easiest opponent in round one. Her "impressive strategy" isn't all that impressive when she didn't have much to overcome in the first place having the type advantage. How she does against Leon will show her true level.

Iris' only fighting chance to advance would've probably been against Lance too, or Alain. But the writers clearly wanted to keep her at the bottom of the eight being the youngest champion and not having main character privilege. She was set up for failure.

 

[Sham]

I agree with Diantha having the easiest opponent in round one. Her "impressive strategy" isn't all that impressive when she didn't have much to overcome in the first place having the type advantage. How she does against Leon will show her true level.

Iris' only fighting chance to advance would've probably been against Lance too, or Alain. But the writers clearly wanted to keep her at the bottom of the eight being the youngest champion and not having main character privilege. She was set up for failure.

Honestly, the fact that Haxorus was able to match Mega Garchomp while also keeping up with its attack and the magazine and next episode confirmed Cynthia only won because of Mega Evolution means she lost because of plot convince. That being said any other challenger she would have beaten.

That being said, she put up a better fight than Lance, Alain and possibly Steven

 

[HatersGonnaHate]

Honestly, the fact that Haxorus was able to match Mega Garchomp while also keeping up with its attack and the magazine and next episode confirmed Cynthia only won because of Mega Evolution means she lost because of plot convince. That being said any other challenger she would have beaten.

That being said, she put up a better fight than Lance, Alain and possibly Steven

I think her best chances to win and advance would've been against Alain, Lance, or Diantha, but not the rest. I wish she didn't face Cynthia at all because she never had a chance the second the battle was announced. I would've rather seen see her advance than have a good showing against Cynthia because anything impressive Iris did will be outdone when Ash beats Cynthia anyway. And we're missing out on seeing Iris use her entire team in round two that would've forced Emolga, Gible, and her 6th to be used.

I'm just not a fan of the recurring pattern that traveling companions are always brought back to put over others.

 

[Sham]

I think her best chances to win and advance would've been against Alain, Lance, or Diantha, but not the rest. I wish she didn't face Cynthia at all because she never had a chance the second the battle was announced. I would've rather seen see her advance than have a good showing against Cynthia because anything impressive Iris did will be outdone when Ash beats Cynthia anyway. And we're missing out on seeing Iris use her entire team in round two that would've forced Emolga, Gible, and her 6th to be used.

I'm just not a fan of the recurring pattern that traveling companions are always brought back to put over others.

This all subjective but:

Spoiler: thoughts and stuff

This is true. Once her goal of being a Dragon Master was mentioned in the title it was over. The writers are against characters achieving their dreams hence why Dawn hasn’t won anything.

Also now that we know Ash and Leon are most likely curbstomping them both in single episodes drc tbh. A good battle showcasing her strength>an easier opponent and get a messy full battle episode. But I get your point and understand it.

With saying that, her matching Cynthia and being on her level (and not because she’s Cynthia but because of her position in the PWC) is an achievement because Cynthia needed a gimmick against her despite her not having any. It’s nice the writers even confirmed that much unlike the others and gave a good reason why she lost.

The newest magazine said Cynthia Mega Evolving secured her win and the Steven recap episode said Iris lost just barely

tldr beating a non Champion and Lance who went down multiple times in the PWC doesn't seem that much fulfilling then having a huge disadvantage against the top yet still not getting a given defeat, it is actually really based. The battle displayed why she's called the Unova Champion but again subjective

 

[Pepito Chillito]

Still last. What was her strategy for half of the battle? Spam horn drill until it worked? Dragon whispering didn't have any effect either. The writers seemed to have an end game of making it a narrow victory for Cynthia but they couldn't get there in a way that seemed plausible, so they just made Gastrodon sit still and let horn drill work after failing previously.

Haxorus might have hit M-Garchomp with dragon pulse but it didn't seem to leave a dent. Garchomp looked pristine at the end of the battle, while Haxorus looked battered.

Mentally, Iris is definitely the weakest trainer too. Crying after losing? Girl, aren't you supposed to be a champion?

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

Still last. What was her strategy for half of the battle? Spam horn drill until it worked? Dragon whispering didn't have any effect either. The writers seemed to have an end game of making it a narrow victory for Cynthia but they couldn't get there in a way that seemed plausible, so they just made Gastrodon sit still and let horn drill work after failing previously.

Haxorus might have hit M-Garchomp with dragon pulse but it didn't seem to leave a dent. Garchomp looked pristine at the end of the battle, while Haxorus looked battered.

Mentally, Iris is definitely the weakest trainer too. Crying after losing? Girl, aren't you supposed to be a champion?

Just gonna say. Iris may be a Championbut she still a child. What? You suddenly have to become mature once you reach Champion status?

And no one saw her cry. It was a private affair that Ash and Goh (+ viewers] witnessed.

Oh and I don’t agree with you that Iris is the weakest member of the Master 8.

I divided the Champions (+Alain) info 3 Levels.

Protagonist Level : Ash.

High Leveled Champion : Leon, Cynthia.

Intermediate Level Champion: Steven, Lance, Diantha.

Beginner Tier Champion : Iris and Alain.

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

Thinking about how resilient Garchomp was、. Even though Iris Haxorus won the melee combat with Garchomp with Haxorus successfully luring Garchomp close to fire Dragon Pulse. It still didn’t do any visible damage.

So I wonder how many hits is it gonna take to down Garchomp? 3 like Steven’s Metagross? One supercharged Aura Sphere (like Cynthia gonna wait for Ash’s Lucario to finish preparing.)

 

[Pepito Chillito]

Just gonna say. Iris may be a Championbut she still a child. What? You suddenly have to become mature once you reach Champion status?

And no one saw her cry. It was a private affair that Ash and Goh (+ viewers] witnessed.

Oh and I don’t agree with you that Iris is the weakest member of the Master 8.

I divided the Champions (+Alain) info 3 Levels.

Protagonist Level : Ash.

High Leveled Champion : Leon, Cynthia.

Intermediate Level Champion: Steven, Lance, Diantha.

Beginner Tier Champion : Iris and Alain.

Ash is the same age and he has had some painful post-Ritchie losses to Tyson, Harrison, Tobias, Alain, etc, yet he accepted them without bursting into tears or stomping his feet.

 

[Sham]

Ash is the same age and he has had some painful post-Ritchie losses to Tyson, Harrison, Tobias, Alain, etc, yet he accepted them without bursting into tears or stomping his feet.

Let’s not act like losing your goal of becoming the top trainer and surpassing your senior isn’t an emotional thing, shall we?

Hau cried over losing to Ash in the Alola Leauge and Serena cried over her Pokémon tripping of all things but when Iris does it she’s the most unhinged and least deserving of being a Champion and the most mentally unstable of the bunch

Even ignoring that’s it’s completely normal crying and actual helps release your feeling in a great manner than just bottling them in.

 

[Pepito Chillito]

Iris behaved like a spoiled brat in the store who didn't get the cereal she demanded from her Mom because Cynthia tore her a new one. You can throw a ribbon on her bad behavior and dress it up whatever way you want but you and I both know Ash, a new champion like her who is of a similar age, would have been able to shrug it off with a smile had he lost to Steven. Maybe that's why Iris is a disposable side character and Ash is the top dog

 

[Sham]

Iris behaved like a spoiled brat in the store who didn't get the cereal she demanded from her Mom because Cynthia tore her a new one. You can throw a ribbon on her bad behavior and dress it up whatever way you want but you and I both know Ash, a new champion like her who is of a similar age, would have been able to shrug it off had he lost to Steven.

So basically you have no argument against my actual facts and evidence while also conveniently ignoring other characters crying?

Crying and venting alone isn’t a bad thing and it’s mostly about that rather than making it about Iris or her lost.

Imagine saying crying is a sign of immaturity or puts your mentality in question. You’re calling something bad behavior because she wanted to be alone and express her feelings because you don’t like that she’s a Champion and did better than most of the other losers? Interesting but that’s all

 

[Pepito Chillito]

So basically you have no argument against my actual facts and evidence while also conveniently ignoring other characters crying?

Crying and venting alone isn’t a bad thing and it’s mostly about that rather than making it about Iris or her lost.

Imagine saying crying is a sign of immaturity or puts your mentality in question. You’re calling something bad behavior because she wanted to be alone and express her feelings because you don’t like that she’s a Champion? Interesting but that’s all

You didn't really have an argument. You ignored the fact that I mentioned that Ash didn't react in the same way to post-Ritchie losses to Tyson, Harrison, Tobias, Alain, etc in the same way and then spammed pictures of Hau and Serena crying. As well as Ash for a non-loss related reason.

I'm comparing her mentality to Ash because they're both champions, they both have similar goals and they are the same age. Iris is the only champion who has balled crying because she lost in this tournament, she's a bad loser, a trait you would have thought she'd have overcome since the path to champion for anyone but Leon should be arduous and defeats and setbacks would be a natural part of that journey.

We can agree to disagree but I'm not debating this for hours.

 

[SkyBlaze9125]

If Iris cry in public than sure I would call her child. But it was a private affair that only Ash and Goh got to witnesss. There nothing wrong with crying in private to your friends.

And bad loser. How? In front of the entire audience She thank Her Pokemon for a good job, say she love them, congralute Cynthia, and promise to get stronger. If that a sign of a sore loser than Eh….

 

[Decidueye23]

Didnt we already have some thread like this before? Honestly, there is no objective way to compare all these champions other than Leon and Cynthia being no.1 and no.2 and ofcourse ashy boi deximating them all to be world champion

 

[Pkjoan]

Pretty bad tbh. Not even sure how she ranked higher than Ash.

 

[masdog]

Iris behaved like a spoiled brat in the store who didn't get the cereal she demanded from her Mom because Cynthia tore her a new one. You can throw a ribbon on her bad behavior and dress it up whatever way you want but you and I both know Ash, a new champion like her who is of a similar age, would have been able to shrug it off with a smile had he lost to Steven. Maybe that's why Iris is a disposable side character and Ash is the top dog

That’s probably the worst take I’ve seen on this…

I'm comparing her mentality to Ash because they're both champions, they both have similar goals and they are the same age. Iris is the only champion who has balled crying because she lost in this tournament, she's a bad loser, a trait you would have thought she'd have overcome since the path to champion for anyone but Leon should be arduous and defeats and setbacks would be a natural part of that journey.

She’s not a bad loser because she cries for a few seconds after losing to someone she greatly admires in a private moment with one of her best friends. A bad loser would have had a meltdown on the pitch after the match or immediately left the stadium, and Iris didn’t do those things. She handled it with grace.

Anyone who loses on that stage will feel disappointment and have to let their emotions out at some point. All things considered, Iris handled it really well and went on to cheer on Ash.