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Gravity - A Heavy Stall Team

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Nocturne.Lullaby, Apr 3, 2011.

  1. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    Gravity - A Heavy Stall Team - Still needs help!

    Greetings! First let me thank you for stopping by my thread, as I'm sure that your constructive criticism will be well received (and remember, this team is for the OU tier)!

    As a competitive battler I tend to look for strange battling strategies, or themes, and see what I can make of them. One team-style that has always intrigued me, due to its rare use and what not, is when a team bases itself around the field effect: Gravity. Never have I been confronted with a Gravity based team, and many find it too gimmicky. But I see it as an opportunity to catch people by surprise.

    Despite what I intended, this team has become very heavy stall, even bringing me to use the all-powerful pink behemoth, Blissey. Despite that Stall is my favorite strategy to use in game, I've never once used this beast due to the fact that I prefer to take the road less traveled.. but here I am hopping on the band wagon and beginning to ramble! So let's take a look at the team below!

    The team began with me looking at two users of the move Gravity as well as two Pokemon that just scream to be walls:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Blissey is the Queen of all that is Specially Defensive (though she is struggling to keep her title with the little Princess of all that is Specially Defensive gunning for her title) and Dusclops's typing and stats compliment her splendidly. Both Pokemon are able to set up Gravity, support their teams, and abuse Gravity when the time calls for it. However, due to the fact that I do not have a WishBliss, due to their rarity and the fact that I play solely on the DSi, I had to find myself a Wish Passer to help keep my two-Pokemon core alive. I settled on a Pokemon that has yet to fail me:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Vaporeon is a wonderful Bulky Water and is able to pass large Wishes, so he fills my need with no complaints. Vaporeon also has access to a 10% accurate (under Gravity) Blizzard and Hydro Pump, though I chose to use Scald over it's usual stab option in order to cripple Physical Threats and better help my team stall them out. However, Vaporeon still has that powerful Blizzard to take out any Grass types that come in to ruin my fun. In my efforts to find another Pokemon to abuse Gravity, I had many recommendations to use Heatran, and while I wanted to use a mixed set, I ended up settling upon an interesting Specially Defensive version. So far that totals me out at two Special walls and two Physical.

    The last thing my team needs is entry hazard support, as well as a spinner and someone to help support Blissey and Dusclops with keeping Gravity up. So the next pair of Pokemon I want to introduce are:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I chose to split up my spikers for a few reasons. First, if one goes down I'd prefer to not have my entire plans foiled. Second, I ended up fighting with Four Moveslot Syndrome on Forretress and needed to keep Toxic Spikes from his moveset and throw it onto another Pokemon. And lastly, in case my solo spiker, who would have been Forretress, goes down I need someone able to mop up Toxic Spikes, which besides Heatran and Forretress thanks to their immunity will continue to screw up my attempts to stall. Now, for the actual movesets.

    Blissey @ Leftovers
    - Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ability: Serene Grace
    - EV's: 252 Def, 252 SpD, 4 HP
    - Softboiled
    - Gravity
    - Aromatherapy
    - Thunder/Fire Blast/Sing (unlikely to get use, but worth a mention)

    Notes: Shocking! I decided to go without Natural Cure due to the fact that Blissey's 100% accurate move of choice will now have a greater chance at causing status to foes (particularly those that are immune to Poison Spikes/Toxic). Combine that with the fact that Blissey already acts as a cleric making Natural Cure redundant. Yes, that does mean I can't pull Blissey out in an emergency and have her cured of status, but I personally feel that this is a better ability based on the situation. Lastly, Blissey draws in Fighting attacks which can be sponged for no damage thanks to a simple switch to Dusclops.

    Dusclops @ Eviolite
    - Nature: Impish (+Def, -SpA)
    - Ability: Pressure
    - EV's: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
    - Gravity
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Seismic Toss

    Notes: The second half to my core, and my spin blocker. Dusclops pairs almost perfectly with Blissey, his other weaknesses covered by Forretress and Heatran. My second Gravity user, and abuser, Dusclops' primary goal is to help keep my Fighting-weak team stable and keep my entry hazards on the field. Once Gravity is up he can either switch out to any other Pokemon that is better suited to check, counter, etc the opposing Pokemon or stay in and fire Earthquakes for neutral coverage on nearly everything. Finally, if I can't quite switch out to get a Wish passed my way, Dusclops can Pain Split for health or burn a foe before going down. After doing just one, yes one calculation it's clear that Seismic Toss is definitely the better option. I'm disappointed in losing out against all Ghost-Types, but compared to doing ~54 damage to most targets... yeah.

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    - Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ability: Water Absorb
    - EV's: 248 HP, 252 Def, 8 SpD
    - Wish
    - Roar/Protect
    - Scald
    - Blizzard

    Notes: My Wish Passer. Vaporeon's goal is to keep everyone else healthy. Not that he can't do anything else.. but that was the original use for Vaporeon on the team. When not keeping his team healthy and happy, Vaporeon can phase out Pokemon to spread entry hazard damage, Scald foes with stab damage and a fair chance to burn physical threats, or fire off 100% accurate Blizzards. Though Vaporeon has some attacking options, his EV spread and immunity to water attacks via Water Absorb are obviously more aligned to a defensive Pokemon than an offensive one.

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    - Nature: Calm
    - Ability: Flash Fire
    - EV's: 252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 Def
    - Toxic
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Roar

    Notes: Heatran gives me a valuable asset: an immunity to Fire-Type attacks that will be lured in like nobodies business thanks to Forretress and Roserade. He also acts as either a trapper, snagging a Pokemon with a perfect accuracy Magma Storm which will keep them held in battle for 2-5 turns as well as hitting for massive damage, or abusing Gravity with his other attack: Earth Power (stealing pokemon's immunities to Ground via Gravity). When he isn't sponging resisted special attacks, poisoning foes when Gravity isn't in effect he can effectively be phasing enemies with Roar. Honestly, I'd love it if I got a different Heatran moveset suggested to me.. though I don't want to get rid of him as a whole as it would leave me horribly weak to any Fire-Type attack...

    Forrestress @ Shed Shell
    - Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ability: Sturdy
    - EV's: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpA
    - Spikes
    - Gravity
    - Rapid Spin
    - Zap Cannon

    Notes: Forretress, one half of my entry hazards. Spikes are amazing in Gravity since they hit every Pokemon while the effect is on the field. That means I can even come in on Pokemon I resist, begin setting up hazards, and once I'm done toss out a Gravity to tear my foes from the sky and smash them upon my Spikes. Rapid Spin is there to keep Toxic Spikes off the field when Roserade hasn't already absorbed them. With the addition of Zap Cannon comes a mixed blessing. I now have a better chance of combating Taunt Gyarados, as I can come in and nail him hard for a x4 Super Effective move, which will also paralyze him.. meaning I might get to 2HKO (I need to do some calculations). And yes, after doing some calculations (using the Smogon damage calculator) I do 54% to Gyarados, which means I get a 2HKO if paralysis kicks in and they can't heal by any means..

    Roserade @ Focus Sash
    - Nature: Calm
    - Ability: Natural Cure
    - EV's: 236 HP, 160 SpD, 112 Spe
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Sleep Powder/Venoshock
    - Giga Drain
    - Rest

    Notes: The final member of my team, and second half of my entry hazards. Roserade's job is to come in and either Sleep an opponent so that I can begin setting Toxic Spikes, or forgo the Sleep Powder and begin Spiking. When things look grim, I can either switch out of the fight and try passing a Wish later on, Giga Drain if for some reason a Bulky Water (or something else I'll deal significant damage to with Giga Drain) has come in to try and stop me, or Rest and let Natural Cure wake me up once I'm out of harms way. Focus Sash is there in case all I get to do is switch in, Sleep someone, and Rest on the switch.

    Now, there are many things wrong with my team.. I know this. One of the main issues I see is that I have one, yes count them, one physical attacker.. if you can call him that. Dusclops holds the only physical move, Earthquake, on my team. Again, I'm aiming at Heavy Stall.. so this isn't a humongous issue so long as I can take down the enemy with Toxic, Toxic Spikes, and Spikes damage. What would be ideal is if I found a mixed Heatran set, or if someone could recommend one to me, as to keep my team as balanced as it is (or as I believe it to be) but pack a bit more punch in the physical department. I also have no experience fighting Reuniclus, and I know it to be a vicious stall breaker. So any suggestions to get around that nuisance would be loved.

    While I am not looking forward to changing the Pokemon on this team too much, I am flexible and willing (and eager) to take constructive criticism. So please, be kind and lets see how good we can make this team.

    Also, as a heads up, advice is appreciated from those that have no experience with the Gravity playstyle.. but I will take your advice with a grain of salt.. as far too many dismiss the move as Gimmicky simply because they don't have the patience, experience, or understanding of the move itself.

    New Section: Optional Team Members

    Honestly, there are some Pokemon that I'd love to switch in.. however they are either almost impossible to get legitimately on the handheld systems (WishBliss), rare or unable to find breedable (many Dream World Pokemon at the moment), or have some other factor keeping me from immediately putting them onto my team. So until I'm able to make these changes, they will be added below.

    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    - Nature: Careful
    - Ability: Multiscale
    - EV's: 252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Dragon Tail
    - Protect/Thunder Wave/Toxic

    - Multiscale and Dragon typing gives Dragonite amazing bulk, when not facing Dragon- or Ice-Type moves, which are handled by Forretress with ease.
    - Continues to provide the Fire-Type resist that Heatran, the Pokemon he'd replace, offered.
    - Able to phase, heal himself, protect from status, and spread status with ease.

    - Fire-Type immunity turns into a resist.
    - Multiscale is screwed by entry hazards (at least until I can Roost back up), though that can be remedied as long as Forretress is still alive.
    - Can no longer trap, though this isn't a huge concern.
    - Dragonite's purpose is to resist the attacks being directed at Roserade and Forretress (mainly Fire-Types), however if an Ice-Type attack is used instead Dragonite will take far too much damage.

    Would Replace: Heatran
    Waiting On: Getting my hands on a female Dream World Dratini-Dragonair-Dragonite, or a Careful Male version of the same Pokemon.

    Changes in BOLD.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
  2. 123fakestreet

    123fakestreet Metalopolis King

    As is common on stall teams, you are wrecked by a taunt Gyarados.

    Since your abusing gravity there are several moves you can consider that most people forget they learn.

    Blissey : Sing is an insane option in gravity, with the accuracy boost and literally nobody sees it coming

    Forretres: makes great use from zap-cannon because of the amount sweepers he can paralyse :)

    Dusclops's attack is far too low, use s-toss.
  3. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    You do know that Balloons are useless during Gravity, right?

    Well, Zap Cannon takes care of Gyarados real good... and even if it doesn't, He'll be paralyzed and you can just use it again. Imo, you could probably fit Gliscor somewhere, with enough speed, you can taunt your opponents before they taunt you, likely using Earthquake, Acrobatics, Fling, and Taunt.

    Btw, I'm curious to see how my Flying team does during gravity...
    Half 2 of my attacks won't work... D:
  4. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    @ 123fakestreet

    I didn't forget about sing on Blissey, actually. Simply that I am having issues fitting everything I'd like on one set. Really Softboiled is a must, as is Aromatherapy in order to keep everyone else healthy. Gravity can't be removed, as it would be pointless to use it as one of my Gravity users. So that leaves me with choosing to have no means of defending myself with an attack, or sleeping things. I generally prefer hitting mildly and spreading paralysis to things I can't poison (as opposed to sleeping things I should be poisoning, y'anno?). I do like the idea that you're pointing out interesting moves that I may or may not have thought of though! Perhaps slashing in sing might be possible.. but I'm not sure it'd see much play. :0

    As for Forretress, it's actually tempting to switch his item for shed shell and go with Zap Cannon. It would fix my taunt Gyarados issue, as has been stated. So I think I'll edit that into the OP and see how that seems to work. Finally, with Dusclops... hm. I see what you mean about him having low attack.. though the fact that Ghost types would completely wall me worries me. I think I'll try and think up some targets that would often come up against Dusclops and see if I can do some damage calculations. I mean, if I'm hitting for 100 damage, or about that, then I see no difference besides the fact that I lose coverage on an entire Type of Pokemon. :0 But it is something I'll look into, thanks! :3

    @ SomeoneIGuess

    Bah, forgive my late night blah-ish-ness. Yes, I know that Balloon doesn't work. More or less I was interested in tossing Heatran on the team, as I draw in enough fire attacks to be a fire hazard.. and I just went with a moveset that I found that (in theory) worked splendidly with the team dynamic. But yeah, Balloon has to go.

    I'm glad that you agree with 123fakestreet on adding Zap Cannon to Forretress. Makes me even more confident in adding it to my favorite little bagworm. And once I get this team up and going, if you'd like to try your flying team out against it (though it'd be a little unfair since you get a sneak peak ;D) I'd be curious to give it a go! Thank you, and if you think up anything else, feel free to post again!

    Now to go make some OP edits..


    @ SomeoneIGuess

    If I were to substitute in Gliscor, someone that is definitely worth considering, whom would you suggest? I really can't see any of them going.. as they all serve very specific roles.. D:
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  5. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    I'm not sure at all actually... I'm more of a single-rate guy than a team rater... but I think replacing Heatran is a start. But you lose the ability to trap.
  6. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    My biggest fear in losing Heatran isn't losing the ability to trap.. though I adore the though of coming in on some Fire-Type move, someone expecting I predict their switch to a Heatran Counter and staying in, and getting trapped by +1 Magma Storm... My biggest fear is that the moment I take out Heatran is the moment any Fire-Type move can take out both Roserade and Forretress. Since they are huge keystones to the team, it'd be a shame to lose 'em in one go. Y'anno? Though if I was naive enough to watch Forretress go down to a flamethrower and then send in Roserade without taking out the threat I deserve to lose.. = .= But again, depending on how the team changes, if I can find a more reliable way of dealing with Fire-Types besides relying on just (or mainly) throwing a Vaporeon at them.. then I'd love to shuffle Heatran out and welcome in a new teammate.
  7. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    Oh i see now... hmm...
    Well, the best i can think of is Houndoom who fulfills both roles to some extent. He lacks the Defensive aspect of both, however boasts the ability to taunt Gyarados assuming that Gyarados has not dragon danced yet (and, truthfully, the only time Gyarados will actually switch in is when a fire type is up... like Houndoom.), and also can launch powerful moves (Fire Blast/Overheat) at the opponent. But then he doesn't really have anything to do with stalling... which is sad :(

    Eh, my flying type team is in my sig (Gyarados is now jolly)
  8. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    Hm, like you mentioned Houndoom doesn't quite fit the team strategy.. and I believe that Heatran completely outclasses it anyhow (though I sometimes ignore that fact when choosing which Pokemon I use..).

    But once again I'd like to thank you for your input! You have been a help. :3
  9. xScruffyx

    xScruffyx Well-Known Member

    I really like your team. I actually run a stall team too :) Anyways, one thing id metion is using sleep powder over venoshock. Venoshock might do double dmg when the opponent is poisoned but poison is only super effective against grass type which you already have covered with vaporeon and heatran. Sleep powder would give you more utility.
  10. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    Thanks for the input!

    Sleep powder was actually what was originally the primary option, as I looked at it the same way you seem to be.. Toss out a Sleep Powder to help either cause switches, help toss out Toxic Spikes, etc. Use it as utility (not that there are many other ways to use Sleep Powder). It's definitely what my gut tells me to use... though at the same time I have that little voice in the back of my head that says, 'Just wait! Roserade will be the last Pokemon standing, and you'll be facing something like Breloom glaring at me.. and what can I do? I can sleep it.. Ha! most are carrying Toxic Orb and Poison Heal now (or will be), and Giga Drain won't do squat!' And since I'm stalling the goal should be to force Toxic status upon everyone.. though I carry some of every other status (bar attract and confusion) somewhere this is just to meet certain situations appropriately. So I should be able to get heavy STAB any time.

    *sighs* Like I said, I'm stuck between the two, and will most likely end up breeding two seperate Roserade's so that I can just flip flop the two when I feel it necessary. Though I do like that someone is basically telling me my gut feeling was correct! :'D So perhaps I'll flop their places in the OP and see if any more advice on the matter comes along. <3

    @ Anyone who may be viewing this page!

    I love the advice so far! Though I'm worried that the bulk of it has been: I like the team! Change this one move! Or swap an item here! Makes me feel like either I'm overly worried or we're all missing some glaring weakness together... So I'd love more rates!
  11. FusionFantastic

    FusionFantastic Bio..bio..biology...

    You could replace heatran with a multiscale dragonite with leftovers. This way fire will do very little damage to dragonite.

    With dragon tail, all the pokemon will get pwned by spikes

    It could be bulky and give it protect roost substitude and dragontail.

    With spikes on the floor and gravity ,
  12. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    That's actually something I hadn't thought of.

    I'll make a comment in the OP about the option of switching to said Dragonite, though I won't feel comfortable committing myself to the switch until I get my hands on a DW ability female Dragonite (kind of a.. don't count your chickens until they hatch-thing). But once I either get my hands on said Dragonite, Dragonair, or Dratini it's definitely something I'd feel comfortable with switching with Heatran. I mean, I lose my fire immunity, and gain a 4x Ice weakness, but I gain tons of resists and tanking ability with that bugger!
  13. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    A little bump to pop back onto page one, like I've stated before, I haven't gotten much feedback besides: Things look great! Or minor nitpicky details. I'd love it if my team was perfect, but since that isn't going to happen.... I'll be hunting for more rates! <3
  14. Aquadon

    Aquadon TCG Trainer

    This actually looks amazing. While I've never tried Gravity, it has also been a team I've considered from time to time, and I tip my hat to you for using the DSi as opposed to simulators. Once I get access to WiFi again, I would be more than happy to trade you a female DW Dratini that I have access to due to trading. That being said; I would suggest a possible Physical Move on Dragonite. It's naturally got a Base 134 ATK that's good, and it'll add another Physical move to your arsenal. Something to consider.

    Think you could take a look at my Team? http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=501973
  15. cheeselord

    cheeselord Largely Inactive

    Why does dusclops have 4 EVs in atk?
  16. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    Dusclops, at one time, was running a different set. In that one he was using Earthquake for great neutral coverage on almost everyone thanks to Gravity. When he switched to Seismic Toss, a decision I'm still... disappointed in as I'm unable to do anything to Ghosts (though with Night Shade I'd be unable to touch a larger group of Normal Pokemon). However, I actually EV'd him in game today, and his EV's have indeed changed to 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD. So that is more just an itty bitty typo that wasn't corrected, despite the fact that I did see it this morning and meant to come back and edit it. So I'll go do that now.
  17. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    I appreciate the.. I don't want to call it praise... but you know what I mean. I really am proud of the synergy between all of the Pokemon and Movesets I've gone with (some movesets from others, some old school ones that I've modified, some thing I don't want to say I created.. but I slapped them together then realized that others have been using the same sets, and some that others here on Serebii have helped me modify). But even with all of the good praise I have this feeling something's missing.

    As for Dragonite, I'll consider bringing another move, though Substitute and Roost are too valuable to lose... as if a STAB un-tauntable phazing move... so my only option would be to replace his Protect/Status Move... which I'm weary about doing.. as it detracts from his stallish nature/build. But who knows, any suggestions on a move?
  18. SomeoneIGuess

    SomeoneIGuess ?Hu Hsilaciryl

    Dragonite becomes useless once he switches in- Anyone with fire and ice typed moves will likely get an easy KO out of him, if they do more than 1/8 damage (2 turns of Leftovers recovery if you used protect the second turn), but most of them don't carry such a combination, so that concern is not very worrying. The real problem when switching him in is in a situation where Roserade is supposedly going to be hit by a fire move, only you find out it was an ice move instead, and combine this with stealth rock damage, Dragonite is going down.
  19. Nocturne.Lullaby

    Nocturne.Lullaby Pokemon Breeder

    Point taken. He's still something I think I'd like to consider.. but less as a replacement for Heatran and more for if I have some.. guess or prior knowledge (such as fighting a Mono-Flying team, or what not) of what will most likely be coming my way. I don't share the same fear of Fire-Type moves that you seem to, as honestly he resists them and will take very little damage thanks to Dragon-Typing and Multiscale.. so perhaps you meant Electric? Which he'd still be neutral to.. but the Ice-Type comment was very valid. In which case Heatran is still my best bet.

    Thank you again for helping, SomeoneIGuess!
  20. Aquadon

    Aquadon TCG Trainer

    Maybe an Elemental Punch for a rare Status chance. I was definitely considering the fourth slot (SubRoost would be ludicrous to lose, as would your Physical Phaze). The Punches, Dragon Rush (for added Accuracy now), and EQ would be the best idea (Waterfall and Stone Edge are plausible, but not sure what you would feel with those)

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