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Ground Zero Mosque (or cultural gathering centre for the politcally correct)

Fused

Shun the nonbeliever
How the hell is two blocks away far?

A block is the space between two parallel streets. Put this into the context of New York City (more specifically, Lower Manhattan), and then double it. It's quite a distance.
 
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Zenotwapal

have a drink on me
It's to far away for it to matter, really.
People just can't leave well enough alone, really...
 

HoennMaster

Well-Known Member
It's two blocks away, it's fine IMO. And Two blocks, even in Manhattan, is not far away.
 
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natie

Mr. F
Anyone that thinks the mosque shouldn't be built is a dumb idiot.

IT'S THEIR CIVIL RIGHT TO BUILD IT THERE, DAMMIT. They paid for the space.

Also, I don't see the moral/ethical issues of it either. I respect that people can be sad about things that happened in the past, but sometimes, you just need to let go. After all, it's been nearly 10 years since the attacks. Geeze.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
If some one is against the mosque, there prejudice.

nuff said.

I wouldn't say that. With a lot of talking points being something like "a victory mosque TOWERING OVER GROUND ZERO", I'd bet most Americans don't even realize it's two blocks away, with a larger building between it and ground zero.
 

natie

Mr. F
A mosque isn't even large in height to begin with.
 

Ethan

Banned
...generally.

[img139]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJlGOfwhbYOyrDmubI47vQh4MWWJJgPQJSQK_rofyvohnU5bM&t=1&usg=__jI4ACzbe5CTZ3i-155ttmMFd4pk=[/img139]
 
I'm absolutely against building a mosque. Yes, they have the right, but it is in extremely poor taste. And why is there such secrecy as to where the funding is coming from? The man wanting the mosque built is very suspicious. He has refused to call Hamas a terrorist group and he believes in Sharia law. We need to be wary of his motivations, his financial support, and his reasoning. WHY there? Sarah Palin said, "They have the right, but should they?" I have to agree with that entirely.
 

Fused

Shun the nonbeliever
Yes, they have the right, but it is in extremely poor taste.

How is it in poor taste to build a mosque for Muslims, not radical terrorists groups, to use that is two blocks away from ground zero? That's like saying its in bad taste to build an Anglican/Protestant church in the Republic of Ireland.

Now a mosque ON ground zero... I would certainly agree with you. However, that case is so far away from reality.
 
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J.T.

ಠ_ಠ
I'm absolutely against building a mosque.

Okay, you're seriously one of the last people on this forum I'd expect to hear that from.

Yes, they have the right, but it is in extremely poor taste.

Is it now? Building a mosque (cultural center, really, but I'm not sure what the difference is so I'll humor you) two blocks away from Ground Zero, in such a place where it's not even visible from G0, for moderate Muslims who didn't do anything wrong, to practice the religious freedom the Constitution guarantees them, in New York City where I must remind you it's not exactly easy to find places to build ****, on a location where the former building was damaged by the attacks, when there is already another mosque four blocks away from G0 which nobody seems to give a **** about... is in bad taste?

Hm.

And why is there such secrecy as to where the funding is coming from?

Since when must someone be forced to reveal everybody that's helping to fund what he's doing? "THIS GUY BUILDING A CHURCH IN OKLAHOMA CITY WON'T DIVULGE HIS BENEFACTORS TO THE REPORTERS HOUNDING HIS EVERY STEP, HE MUST BE GETTING THOSE FUNDS FROM GUYS LIKE TIMOTHY MCVEIGH"

The man wanting the mosque built is very suspicious. He has refused to call Hamas a terrorist group

One, source please, and two, so what? What exactly do you think his building a mosque will accomplish in terms of furthering terrorist activities, if you're so concerned that he's one of them (or supporting them)? Do you think they'll use it as a meeting place or something?

Also, why would - and I'm using someone else's wording here, not saying that you've said this, only that it sounds like this what you're saying - why would Hamas "plant a flag of victory" for something that al-Qaeda did?

and he believes in Sharia law.

One, source please, and two, again, religious freedom. I personally don't care what you believe as long as you keep it the hell out of my face and my government. If this guy were gunning for the presidency, then yeah, that would be a bigger deal, but no. He's building a house of worship (or an Islam cultural center, whatever you wanna call it). I hardly think that's anything his personal views on Sharia law will affect, unless you suggest he's going to use it as a base of operations to do terrorist stuff on the U.S. or something.

We need to be wary of his motivations

Sure. So, what do you think his motivations are, and why can't his motivation be explained as well by "it's NYC, dude, I don't have a lot of location options here"?

his financial support

So... he doesn't want to give out every source of funding he got for this project, and that suddenly means he must be funded by TERRORISTS OMG. That's some cool reasoning.

Also, important: Hamas didn't cause 9/11.

and his reasoning.

I've given a thought on his reasoning already.

WHY there?

Because it's freaking New York City. Do you seriously think there's a lot of empty lots for someone to build that mosque in?

Sarah Palin said, "They have the right, but should they?" I have to agree with that entirely.

... Carlisle agreeing with Sarah Palin? That's not something I expected to read anytime soon.

Okay, so you can agree with that statement, but uh... why shouldn't they? So far, you've used unsourced claims that really don't seem to matter that much, you seem to be implying or at least acting like the mosque is much closer to G0 than it actually is, and acted like his refusal to list everyone who's funding the mosque is the equivalent of a confession that terrorists are funding the project.
 
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randomspot555

Well-Known Member
There's already a mosque and a (I think) Catholic church in the area. Should those be torn down?

Should we forbid Catholic churches to be built near elementary schools due to the molestation scandals?

Should we just micromanage private property rights so much so that anything we collectively don't like gets banned?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Let the free marketplace of ideas work itself out. You will not have to get gay married, and you will also not be forced to walk into this community center. From what I hear from some New Yorkers, the route it's on is one of SEVERAL routes to ground zero, so you can avoid the area completely if you wish.

This is, I believe, a local issue that is being blown out of proportion so Gingrich, Palin, and co can get their names in the headlines.

EDIT: There's also a mosque inside the Pentagon, which was also attacked on 9/11.

If they start training terrorists there, NYC can shut them down real quick. But right now, everyone is basically skipping "due process" and assuming guilt, which I think goes against the values the United States was founded on.
 
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The_Boss_Giygas

I. F.E.E.L. G.O.O.D.
Paranoid Americans and none more so than New Yorkers, but who can blame them they did get attacked and this war on "terror"(Muslims) we're having only reassures their negative beliefs. I think they should build the Mosque there, it will do those frightened people some good, force them to learn about their "enemy" in turn to make them friends. But then again I don't think it's safe or smart even if it is 100% allowed, as soon as that Mosque goes up, it will be vandalized like crazy and Muslim fights will increase. It should be allowed and could do some good for the people, but then again it could bring more violence.
 
Is it now? Building a mosque (cultural center, really, but I'm not sure what the difference is so I'll humor you) two blocks away from Ground Zero, in such a place where it's not even visible from G0, for moderate Muslims who didn't do anything wrong, to practice the religious freedom the Constitution guarantees them, in New York City where I must remind you it's not exactly easy to find places to build ****, on a location where the former building was damaged by the attacks, when there is already another mosque four blocks away from G0 which nobody seems to give a **** about... is in bad taste?
It can't be that hard to find space in NYC, and I'm sure this was the ONLY spot available, right? It's not the mosque itself, it's the man behind it.

Since when must someone be forced to reveal everybody that's helping to fund what he's doing? "THIS GUY BUILDING A CHURCH IN OKLAHOMA CITY WON'T DIVULGE HIS BENEFACTORS TO THE REPORTERS HOUNDING HIS EVERY STEP, HE MUST BE GETTING THOSE FUNDS FROM GUYS LIKE TIMOTHY MCVEIGH"
Lets take a look at the man's beliefs:

One, source please, and two, so what? What exactly do you think his building a mosque will accomplish in terms of furthering terrorist activities, if you're so concerned that he's one of them (or supporting them)? Do you think they'll use it as a meeting place or something?
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/...t-sends-mosque-imam-to-mideast/#ixzz0wDzOFUQ5

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-dallas/feisal-abdul-rauf-taxpayers-pay-for-ground-zero-mosque-iman-reach-out-to-mideast-muslims
Rauf has emerged as a controversial figure because of his refusal to acknowledge Hamas as a terrorist organization, which is how the U.S. government classifies the group. The imam also has been quoted as saying U.S. foreign policy was in part responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
One, source please, and two, again, religious freedom. I personally don't care what you believe as long as you keep it the hell out of my face and my government. If this guy were gunning for the presidency, then yeah, that would be a bigger deal, but no. He's building a house of worship (or an Islam cultural center, whatever you wanna call it). I hardly think that's anything his personal views on Sharia law will affect, unless you suggest he's going to use it as a base of operations to do terrorist stuff on the U.S. or something.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,593329,00.html
Now in a book published back in 2004, "What Is Right With Islam," Feisal Abdul Rauf, he wrote of his fondness for Sharia Law and his belief that the U.S. can accommodate it. He argued, quote, that "the American political structure is Sharia compliant," continuing, quote, "For America to score even higher on the 'Islamic' or 'Sharia' compliance scale, America would need to do two things: invite the voices of all religions to join the dialogue in shaping the nation's practical life, and allow religious communities more leeway to judge among themselves according to their own laws."
You know, there's a point where people need to stop saying "religious freedom." In every way, shape, and form, Sharia needs to be discouraged. Without discouraging such radical beliefs, it creeps its way into a society. Take a look at what is going on in Europe, with the Islamic surge of the past decade. More and more radicals have crept in and are trying to change the law system to suit their beliefs. All religions have radical extremism, but not too many have reached the level Islamic extremism has done.

Also, important: Hamas didn't cause 9/11.
I realize that.

Because it's freaking New York City. Do you seriously think there's a lot of empty lots for someone to build that mosque in?
That's a fairly bad argument. It's NYC, not Tokyo. There are places to build a mosque.

Now, to condense because I hate replying quote by quote: The man has refused to label Hamas as a terrorist group, he beleives the US in part brought on 9/11, he has no problem with Sharia law, and he will not discolose funding? Can somebody please tell me how in God's name this man is a peaceful Muslim? He believes everything that a radical would, and now he wants to build a mosque right next to a spot that was destroyed in the name of radical Islam? I find nothing peaceful about that, and it certainly does not send a message of moderate Islam. Who is funding this mosque should be in question when you look at the man behind all of this. If a moderate Muslim wanted to do this, and wanted to bring the community together, fine. But when you factor in the location WITH the man behind it...there's something wrong with it. It's almost as if he is directly trying to incite anger with the 9/11 community. This is certainly not a matter of "space" and America should never cave to radical Islamists in any way.
 
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Fused

Shun the nonbeliever
What? You quoting FOX News? Or anyone in general quoting FOX News? Okay, next time there's a debate on how awful conservatives are, I'll quote MSNBC.

Now, to condense because I hate replying quote by quote: The man has refused to label Hamas as a terrorist group, he beleives the US in part brought on 9/11, he has no problem with Sharia law, and he will not discolose funding? Can somebody please tell me how in God's name this man is a peaceful Muslim? He believes everything that a radical would, and now he wants to build a mosque right next to a spot that was destroyed in the name of radical Islam? I find nothing peaceful about that, and it certainly does not send a message of moderate Islam. Who is funding this mosque should be in question when you look at the man behind all of this. If a moderate Muslim wanted to do this, and wanted to bring the community together, fine. But when you factor in the location WITH the man behind it...there's something wrong with it. It's almost as if he is directly trying to incite anger with the 9/11 community. This is certainly not a matter of "space" and America should never cave to radical Islamists in any way.

So he's radical because he doesn't agree with everything the US Govt. says? So what if he doesn't think Hamas is a terrorist group? Am I anti-Semitic because I don't think pork nonkosher?

The only people who think America is completely innocent are Americans it seems. Several motives were given for 9/11, and a few of them involved the US. Thinking the US is partially to blame doesn't equal criticism and a wish to destroy it (unless you have proof otherwise.).

Sharia is the sacred law of Islam. Don't blame it for how radicals interpret it.

Everytime you pay for something, you need to tell everyone where you got the money from. Sound cool?

Can you tell me how he is an extremist?

He doesn't want to build it right next to Ground Zero. It's two blocks away, much less two Lower Manhattan blocks away.

Again, if this was ON ground zero, I would oppose it. If it was a disguise for an extremist anti-American terrorist group, I would oppose it. But so far, neither are based in reality.
 
What? You quoting FOX News? Or anyone in general quoting FOX News? Okay, next time there's a debate on how awful conservatives are, I'll quote MSNBC.
What? What does that have to do with anything?

So he's radical because he doesn't agree with everything the US Govt. says? So what if he doesn't think Hamas is a terrorist group? Am I anti-Semitic because I don't think pork nonkosher?
Uh, no, don't put words into my mouth. Hamas is a terrorist group who wants Israel destroyed. Anyone with common sense would know they're a dangerous terrorist group. How can anyone say, "Oh, so what?" It's a terrorist group, and when someone who wants to build a mosque on such a sensitive site believes in Sharia and does not refute Hamas, there's no problem with that?!

Sharia is the sacred law of Islam. Don't blame it for how radicals interpret it.
Um, are you kidding me? There are millions of moderate Muslims who do not accept Sharia.
Everytime you pay for something, you need to tell everyone where you got the money from. Sound cool?
If I'm an extremist slapping millions of Americans across the face and trying to do something like this, fine with me.

Can you tell me how he is an extremist?
He supports Sharia and will not refute Hamas. Sharia is a radical form of Islam and should be brought down in any way.
He doesn't want to build it right next to Ground Zero. It's two blocks away, much less two Lower Manhattan blocks away.
Two blocks is close enough to "right next to."
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
^^^You won't even be able to see it from Ground Zero. Between the mosque and ground zero is actually a taller building. Once again, you are free to not go into the community center/mosque.

And I disagree that "Sharia should be bought down in any way." Right now it has no establishment in the US.

And so what if he believes in Sharia? There are some who want the US to become a Chrisitian theocracy. They aren't a threat to national security. They're just people with opinions you or I might disagree with.

What? You quoting FOX News? Or anyone in general quoting FOX News? Okay, next time there's a debate on how awful conservatives are, I'll quote MSNBC.

Don't attack the source, attack the facts the source presents. Just because it comes from X source doesn't mean it's, by default, wrong.

Sharia is the sacred law of Islam. Don't blame it for how radicals interpret it.

Actually, no, it isn't. Unlike Jewish law, which can be found in the Torah and Old Testament, Sharia is not written in the Koran. Sharia is simply man made law and those who wrote it were inspired by the Koran.
 
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Fused

Shun the nonbeliever
What? What does that have to do with anything?

Nothing, that's why I put it before the quote.

It's a terrorist group, and when someone who wants to build a mosque on such a sensitive site believes in Sharia and does not refute Hamas, there's no problem with that?!

Again, him not refuting Hamas automatically and unequivocally makes him an anti-American terrosist?

Um, are you kidding me? There are millions of moderate Muslims who do not accept Sharia.

And then there are millions more who do accept the sacred law of Islam derived from the Qur'an, which is the book of divine guidance for Muslims. Muslims believe that Sharia is God's law. To what it entails and to what extent it is to be used is up to preference and interpretation, but if what you say is true, then every Muslim who believes in Sharia is a terrorist, which is the farthest thing from the truth.

If I'm an extremist slapping millions of Americans across the face and trying to do something like this, fine with me.

And yet, you haven't factually proven that this man is such a person.

Sharia is a radical form of Islam and should be brought down in any way.

I'm seriously hoping you're mocking political commentators right now because that statement was just pure ********.

Two blocks is close enough to "right next to."

So if I'm standing two blocks away from you, you would say that I'm standing directly next to you?

Don't attack the source, attack the facts the source presents. Just because it comes from X source doesn't mean it's, by default, wrong.

It was written as a joke, which is why I referenced an incredibly left-wing news show.

Actually, no, it isn't. Unlike Jewish law, which can be found in the Torah and Old Testament, Sharia is not written in the Koran. Sharia is simply man made law and those who wrote it were inspired by the Koran.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

First sentence, unless I need to get my support elsewhere.
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
Paranoid Americans and none more so than New Yorkers, but who can blame them they did get attacked and this war on "terror"(Muslims) we're having only reassures their negative beliefs. I think they should build the Mosque there, it will do those frightened people some good, force them to learn about their "enemy" in turn to make them friends. But then again I don't think it's safe or smart even if it is 100% allowed, as soon as that Mosque goes up, it will be vandalized like crazy and Muslim fights will increase. It should be allowed and could do some good for the people, but then again it could bring more violence.

It could do good, and bad. Well that's a contradictory statement isn't it? It actually seems like it'll just bring about more hate and not necessarily understanding and peace. It probably won't make New Yorkers "friends" with the Muslims who attend the mosque either, that just sounds totally impossible. I'm sure most people will tolerate a mosque, but tolerating it doesn't mean they'll like it, they'll just put up with it. As for vandalism, it happens all too often these days so I'm hoping that the mosque's owner thinks ahead and installs some form of security. It's necessary these days where it seems that every religious institution is being attacked :/
 
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