Ground Zero Mosque (or cultural gathering centre for the politcally correct)

[BigLutz]

No Lutz, this isn't a case of moral right and wrong vs legal right and wrong. This is a case of people who're opposed to Islam asserting a certain interpretation of what's going on is the incontrovertible truth and it simply doesn't square with the facts.

Wrong this is about morally right and morally wrong. What they are trying to do is morally wrong. There is no problem with them moving the Mosque further away, and that is the view of the vast majority of people that oppose this. But there is something morally wrong with building it so close to Ground Zero.

As far as I can see this is just a story being used by the same people who want to stop other Mosques being built in the US and stopping spires being put up on them in Europe, for whatever daft reason (fear of Islam cause it's a different religion, fear of Islam because they believe this nonsense about how 9/11 is sanctioned by Islam).

So.. you are saying the 70% of so who oppose this of the entire US population share the belief that no mosque should be built in the U.S.? Wow what a insulting blanket statement.

Now will you get a few insulting crazies who will oppose a mosque where ever it's built? Yes of course. But those idiots are drawfed by the sheer number of Americans who would gladly have a mosque down the street from them, but see this mosque being built so close to Ground Zero as insulting and disgusting.

After all there's already a proper Muslim prayer space in the area, that pre-dates the World Trade Centre towers, should they be shut down too?

Was it built with the knowledge the WTC was going to be attacked by Islamic Terrorists and thus that was the reason they choose that spot? If so I wouldn't just say it was morally wrong to build it, but it makes them a couple of Future Seeing Muslims.

 

[Night_Walker]

Lutz, again you've proven my point.

You are coming to this with an immutable point of view that these people want to celebrate the 9/11 attack simply because of where the site happens to be - near the world trade centre site.

Everything you've got to say against this Mosque is predicated on this PoV, with no proof that's what it's about. In fact if you researched this you'd know this place was planned in that location - which isn't RIGHT next door to the site - so are you asserting they knew this attack was coming.

 

[SoulSilverMstr411]

Of course it's OK! And while we're at it let's tear down the Lincon Memorial and build a 100 foot statue of Bin-laden over it. And Uncle Sam is so last century. Let's give him a turban and beard and call him "Uncle Hakmed"!

Wait, it's not on-site? Well that's OK then. Muslims arn't horrible people. It's just that their faith demands that they disown their gay sons, stone their daughters to death if they show even an inch of flesh below the neck and murder their wives if they look at another man.

Muslims, nice people, horrible religion.

 

[BigLutz]

You are coming to this with an immutable point of view that these people want to celebrate the 9/11 attack simply because of where the site happens to be - near the world trade centre site.

I never said they wanted to celebrate the attacks, however they did choose the site because of the 9/11 attacks, that fact is not in dispute, infact they were overjoyed to find out the building had been damaged by said attacks. Now while they may not be wanting to celebrate the attacks, they have decided that they do wish to poke a stick in the eye of every American who still has deep wounds from 9/11.

Everything you've got to say against this Mosque is predicated on this PoV, with no proof that's what it's about. In fact if you researched this you'd know this place was planned in that location - which isn't RIGHT next door to the site - so are you asserting they knew this attack was coming.

I actually have researched this place, I know that when they went out searching for a site, they tried to find a place as close to Ground Zero as possible, and as I said before they were overjoyed to find one that was damaged by the attacks. They have also admitted that if they knew that people would be hurt so badly by their decision they would not have chosen that spot. Yet in the continue classlessness of the Imam and his group, he has decided to continue on despite the deep feelings of pain and anger that he knows his project will cause.

 

[Yanappu]

I would just like to come in and post about the thread maker's ignorance.

"Mosque (or cultural gathering centre for the politcally correct)"

It's neither just a mosque, or a culture gathering center. It's a community center with a mosque in it. To call it just one or the other points out your own personal bias, or just makes you ignorant.

Also, judging from your spelling, you're not American. So, why do you care?

 

[Beastiken9]

I think it's perfectly fine. These people probably had nothing to do with 9/11. This is like the '50-'60. What's next, muslims can't go to public school?

 

[11DBHK]

i kinda understand people saying its ok ok but on ground zero? really?
how must that make the victoms of the attack feel?

 

[Grei]

i kinda understand people saying its ok ok but on ground zero? really?
how must that make the victoms of the attack feel?

Well, depending on your definition of "victims," I imagine the victims wouldn't feel anything at all since they're... y'know, dead.

 

[Monochromatic]

Muslims, nice people, horrible religion.

That's so true...

 

[GetOutOfBox]

I just knew people would start posting:

hurr, the Qu'Ran says stone gays and bad women.

The Bible say's the same thing. The Bible orders that homosexuals are executed, that adulterous women are killed, etc. Don't bother claiming the Bible is a happy book all about mercy and forgiveness, because it's not. Neither is the Qu'Ran. Deal with it.

Spoiler: Don't believe me?

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- Leviticus 20:13 KJV

Believe it or not, not all Muslims want to burn America to the ground. Sure, there's probably quite a few in Afghanistan who believe that America is interfering in their culture who may think that, but hatred for American's is not that uncommon, it's become quite "fashionable" for Canadian/European's to bash American's, saying they're stupid, or all American's are fat, etc. Only a tiny minority of one religious group actually does anything other than complain about Americans. Most of the Muslims that hate America probably wouldn't blow up the trade centers.

Regardless, there is no reason why Muslims shouldn't be allowed to build a Mosque near Ground Zero, since it was not their entire religion, but the actions of a few extremists that leveled it to the ground. Considering that they want to build it a few blocks away from ground zero makes it even more irrelevant. The fact that people are complaining about a Mosque being built 2 blocks away from ground zero is just pathetic.

 

[BigLutz]

Regardless, there is no reason why Muslims shouldn't be allowed to build a Mosque near Ground Zero, since it was not their entire religion, but the actions of a few extremists that leveled it to the ground. Considering that they want to build it a few blocks away from ground zero makes it even more irrelevant. The fact that people are complaining about a Mosque being built 2 blocks away from ground zero is just pathetic.

You do realize that two blocks away is not that far in this area of New York, infact only one large building seperates it from the WTC site. And while it was extremists who attacked the building, they were following the radical beliefs of some parts of their religion. They did not make such beliefs that drove them out of thin air.

 

[PokeJustice]

the Stuff He Said

Apostrophes are TURBORAD!!!1oneoneeleven

But, and this may be the first time we've agreed on anything, you're right.

I like quoting people. I think I'll do it again.

"There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us, but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?
If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable. The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer."

- Ron Paul (R, TX)

This has everything to do with Islamophobia.

I'm also pretty sure that the mosque isn't at Ground Zero, but instead occupies a vacant Burlington Coat Factory and is adjacent to three strip clubs. You learn something new every day.

 

[Pristarin]

I just knew people would start posting:

hurr, the Qu'Ran says stone gays and bad women.

The Bible say's the same thing. The Bible orders that homosexuals are executed, that adulterous women are killed, etc. Don't bother claiming the Bible is a happy book all about mercy and forgiveness, because it's not. Neither is the Qu'Ran. Deal with it.

Spoiler: Don't believe me?

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- Leviticus 20:13 KJV

Believe it or not, not all Muslims want to burn America to the ground. Sure, there's probably quite a few in Afghanistan who believe that America is interfering in their culture who may think that, but hatred for American's is not that uncommon, it's become quite "fashionable" for Canadian/European's to bash American's, saying they're stupid, or all American's are fat, etc. Only a tiny minority of one religious group actually does anything other than complain about Americans. Most of the Muslims that hate America probably wouldn't blow up the trade centers.

Regardless, there is no reason why Muslims shouldn't be allowed to build a Mosque near Ground Zero, since it was not their entire religion, but the actions of a few extremists that leveled it to the ground. Considering that they want to build it a few blocks away from ground zero makes it even more irrelevant. The fact that people are complaining about a Mosque being built 2 blocks away from ground zero is just pathetic.

I'm not sure whether you've been following the thread, but no one was really saying that "Islam is bad, and the bible is good." The reason why members are focusing on Islam is because, surprise, it's the main religion that pertains to this debate. As to why you needlessly try to force the bible into some sort of moral equivalency with the Quran is highly amusing.

I would just like to come in and post about the thread maker's ignorance.

"Mosque (or cultural gathering centre for the politcally correct)"

It's neither just a mosque, or a culture gathering center. It's a community center with a mosque in it. To call it just one or the other points out your own personal bias, or just makes you ignorant.

Also, judging from your spelling, you're not American. So, why do you care?

Must you always appear as a condescending intellectual prick? Half of the people I see you tossing the word "ignorant" around aren't really that ignorant. Further more, this may shock you, but it's perfectly fine and okay to be concerned with issues not only relevant to you.

 

[houndourm]

Muslims, nice people, horrible religion.

all relions have bad aspects. So who are we to judge wich religion is bad?

 

[AzukanAsimbu]

You cant punish the ocean because a drop of water fell in your eye. Theres nothing wrong with a mosque there. It would be unconstitutional if we banned it, we do have a "freedom of religion." There will be alot more hatred towards Muslims if America allows itself to degenerate from its own paranoia. Next thing you know, America will start persecuting Muslims. Denying the mosque is going against the Constitution. Im sorry America, that your buildings got knocked down and a fraction of your millions of citizens died. Worse things have happened in other places. The Holocaust perhaps? 6 million Jews is a far bigger number than 1000 or so Americans. So back to my point, we cannot deny the Muslims citizens their rights, because they are still citizens.

and not all Muslims are terrorists

 

[VioletMantis]

^ Yes, finally someone understands. Heck, I don't see the problem in the mosque. It could also be because I'm not religious, but still they should be able to build where they want. It does go against the constitution, which unfortunately has become obsolete since it was written. So many things in history have gone against it. I think the men who invoked their ideas into it had the mind of a Utopian society. Unfortunately, that'll never exist.

 

[Pristarin]

You cant punish the ocean because a drop of water fell in your eye. Theres nothing wrong with a mosque there. It would be unconstitutional if we banned it, we do have a "freedom of religion." There will be alot more hatred towards Muslims if America allows itself to degenerate from its own paranoia. Next thing you know, America will start persecuting Muslims. Denying the mosque is going against the Constitution. Im sorry America, that your buildings got knocked down and a fraction of your millions of citizens died. Worse things have happened in other places. The Holocaust perhaps? 6 million Jews is a far bigger number than 1000 or so Americans. So back to my point, we cannot deny the Muslims citizens their rights, because they are still citizens.

and not all Muslims are terrorists

It has nothing to do with the legal aspects of "can" and "cannot" The debate is about whether the mosque should be built in its desired location, and whether or not this is in bad taste. Bringing up the constitution and freedom of religion is tantamount to blowing hot air. We aren't debating taking away anyone's rights, either. You act like a completely insensitive fool by bringing up other incidents to somehow lessen the situation. We aren't talking about the holocaust, in case you haven't noticed. Bringing up other random past events to somehow belittle the death of thousands is true jackassery, and you should feel ashamed of yourself.

The fact of the matter is that many Americans are still very sensitive about the trade center incident. Having a mosque that close is similar to having a jar of salt next to an open wound. Sure it's not hurting anyone, but it's going to make you feel uneasy. We all realize and are fully aware that "Not every Muslim is a terrorist." and "It was just extremists that were responsible for 9/11" It's been said about every other post, no one is insightful for repeating the same old dry pitch. We understand. If you also read past comments, the mayor of New York did offer an alternate plan. A different piece of land not as close to ground zero, that would naturally offend less people. Did the imam accept this offer? The answer is no. From that we can glean something, that building this mosque, or I'm sorry, "Community center with a mosque inside" is more about sending a message then simply exercising one's precious religious freedom.

But you may continue to believe that the desire for the mosque to be built further away from ground zero has nothing to do with the pain people still feel about 9/11. It's actually just crazed and paranoid Islamaphobia.

 

[11DBHK]

Well, depending on your definition of "victims," I imagine the victims wouldn't feel anything at all since they're... y'know, dead.

victims meaning the friends and family of the people killed

 

[BigLutz]

Theres nothing wrong with a mosque there.

Other than it being morally wrong?

It would be unconstitutional if we banned it, we do have a "freedom of religion."

We also have Freedom of Speech, no one is saying the Government should ban it, we are saying they should move due to protests and because it is respectful.

There will be alot more hatred towards Muslims if America allows itself to degenerate from its own paranoia. Next thing you know, America will start persecuting Muslims.

No there will be alot more hatred toward Muslims if the Imams here decide to spit in the faces of the overwhelming opposition toward this.

Denying the mosque is going against the Constitution.

Only if the Government is denying it.

Im sorry America, that your buildings got knocked down and a fraction of your millions of citizens died. Worse things have happened in other places. The Holocaust perhaps? 6 million Jews is a far bigger number than 1000 or so Americans. So back to my point, we cannot deny the Muslims citizens their rights, because they are still citizens.

and not all Muslims are terrorists

First no one is saying all Muslims are terrorists.

But to use your idiotic example, should we then allow a German Nationalist Society to sit up shop just down the street from Auschwitz? How about a German Heritage Museum? You know a place that preaches the strength of Germany and the greatness of it's people, and all those things that were twisted by Hitler to kill those 6 million Jews. By your logic it would be perfectly fine.

 

[Shepard]

Other than it being morally wrong?

How do you think it's morally wrong?