Gym Battle! Z-Move VS Mega Evolution!! (986)

[345ash-greninja]

I think Gyarados hit Pikachu with Hydro Pump and Hurricane (Was that the move?)? Not saying I disagree with you (yet) but I think Pikachu got hit by some attack of sorts. And I think Navin is referring to how Misty was always thinking of something to counter attack Pikachu whenever it tried to get the upper hand apart from being hit with Quick Attack and escaping that typhoon of water.

Not sure about that, but it was negligible at best, Pikachu emerged pretty much unscathed from the battle. Then again that's not called having on the ropes lol. Mega Gyarados showed off powerful moves and managed to clash evenly with Pikachu, overpowering his moves once/twice and trapping it once, but it pretty much lost without dealing Pikachu any pain at all.

 

[Navin]

I think Gyarados hit Pikachu with Hydro Pump and Hurricane (Was that the move?)? Not saying I disagree with you (yet) but I think Pikachu got hit by some attack of sorts. And I think Navin is referring to how Misty was always thinking of something to counter attack Pikachu whenever it tried to get the upper hand apart from being hit with Quick Attack and escaping that typhoon of water.

Yeah, she had the counters ready against Pikachu. Only thing she didn't anticipate was Pikachu using the lightning(?) [I swear, Ash uses whatever random thing comes up in his mind]) to escape the hurricane, and then having a Z-Move follow-up. Gyarados is so huge that it would have made dodging difficult.

 

[Genaller]

The only instance when Gyarados damaged Pikachu was when it's RD Hurricane overpowered Electro Ball and flung Pikachu back though Pikachu was easily able to regain his balance before reching the ground so I can't imagine the damage was signifcant. The other closest thing MG did to a successful attack was destroying the rock area that Pikachu was standing on (HP never hit Pikachu directly) causing Pikachu to fall into the water though I don't think Pikachu took any damage there. In the end Pikachu won comparatively easily unlike M-Steelix where Brock confirmed it was close. I don't particularly get what people found strange about Pikachu running on electricity (it's far from the craziest thing Ash has done). If anything that was the first instance where SM Ash actually felt like he could be on par with DP/XY Ash (though at the same time SM Ash did give out a redundant Iron Tail command and XY Ash would've known better from the start regarding the need for first getting Pikachu into the right position before trying to strike).

 

[Champion Jared 14]

Perhaps it wasn't direct, but Pikachu still sustained some residual danage from Hydro Pump. Regardless of vitality, Misty still put forward a good showing imo. In the after episode commentary, Ash commented on how powerful her Gyarados' Hydro Pump was, and that her Rain Dance/Hurricane combo was giving him problems.

Even though she lost, I think this is a remarkable showing in her battle tactics progression. Looking back, Misty never really had a defense against strong grass attacks or any electric attacks (outside of Corsola's Mirror Coat). It was also great to see that she's made progress with Psyduck's abilities as well. It would've been interesting to see more of her and Brock's pokemon to see how far they've come.

 

[srebak]

After putting more thought into it, I think that I may have figured out the reasons why the scenes that I've mentioned before bother me.

A.) Because after such a long time of being made to assume that the current Alola cast didn't know very much about Ash's past successes and accomplishments, this seemed like the perfect opportunity to finally start letting them all just how experienced a trainer Ash really was by the time they met him. He doesn't know that much about the Alola REGIONbecause he's clearly still new that part of the world, but, for the first time in a long time, his class was on his home turf, a region that he's spent a great deal of time traveling in the past. But, then, just when it was starting look like his past accomplishments were just starting to be brought up to his Alolan friends, his original friends undercut the moment by pointing out one of his past follies in regards to his quest for Gym badges. This really underminded a pretty good opportunity for Ash's past successes to at last be brought up, instead of being made to become a part of the past no longer considered relevant. I mean really now, by this point, Ash should be carrying around quite the reputation as a very skilled and talented Pokémon trainer and having the fact that two of his first gym badges were not won in the traditional sense be mentioned and revealed really put him at risk of losing some respect from his Alola classmates and he really didn't seem to have all that much of that as it was anyways, especially from Kiawe.

B.) That one scene where Misty taunts Ash after their battle bothers me because it seems upsetting that after all this time she still hasn't gotten over the need to do that. You may call that sticking with her character, but I call it her never getting over a bad habit. Ever since at some point during the Orange Island saga, Ash had begun to taunt Misty less and less, up until his taunting of her, at last, ceased all together. Nowadays, all he ever seems to do is praise her and her skills as a trainer and a gym leader. So the fact that she still has the need to taunt him is very hard to fathom.

 

[hottom3rd]

After putting more thought into it, I think that I may have figured out the reasons why the scenes that I've mentioned before bother me.

A.) Because after such a long time of being made to assume that the current Alola cast didn't know very much about Ash's past successes and accomplishments, this seemed like the perfect opportunity to finally start letting them all just how experienced a trainer Ash really was by the time they met him. He doesn't know that much about the Alola REGIONbecause he's clearly still new that part of the world, but, for the first time in a long time, his class was on his home turf, a region that he's spent a great deal of time traveling in the past. But, then, just when it was starting look like his past accomplishments were just starting to be brought up to his Alolan friends, his original friends undercut the moment by pointing out one of his past follies in regards to his quest for Gym badges. This really underminded a pretty good opportunity for Ash's past successes to at last be brought up, instead of being made to become a part of the past no longer considered relevant. I mean really now, by this point, Ash should be carrying around quite the reputation as a very skilled and talented Pokémon trainer and having the fact that two of his first gym badges were not won in the traditional sense be mentioned and revealed really put him at risk of losing some respect from his Alola classmates and he really didn't seem to have all that much of that as it was anyways, especially from Kiawe.

B.) That one scene where Misty taunts Ash after their battle bothers me because it seems upsetting that after all this time she still hasn't gotten over the need to do that. You may call that sticking with her character, but I call it her never getting over a bad habit. Ever since at some point during the Orange Island saga, Ash had begun to taunt Misty less and less, up until his taunting of her, at last, ceased all together. Nowadays, all he ever seems to do is praise her and her skills as a trainer and a gym leader. So the fact that she still has the need to taunt him is very hard to fathom.

I agree with all of this, to an extent (maybe just not as ticked about it as you were). Even though they taunted him and Misty demeaned him, he still destroyed her and showcased some considerable skill against her mega gyrados. He was the only one with any working knowledge of mega EV and was the only one not in "awe of surprise". I feel that at least adds some decent continuity, but again it's just my opinion.

I do feel Misty should mature a bit more, but she also didn't travel with Ash near as much as Brock did. BTW loved Brock, great development and a great victory for him.

Pikachu is a damn beast... seriously couldn't get enough of him vs mega gyrados. re-watched a few times already

 

[SH65]

After putting more thought into it, I think that I may have figured out the reasons why the scenes that I've mentioned before bother me.

A.) Because after such a long time of being made to assume that the current Alola cast didn't know very much about Ash's past successes and accomplishments, this seemed like the perfect opportunity to finally start letting them all just how experienced a trainer Ash really was by the time they met him. He doesn't know that much about the Alola REGIONbecause he's clearly still new that part of the world, but, for the first time in a long time, his class was on his home turf, a region that he's spent a great deal of time traveling in the past. But, then, just when it was starting look like his past accomplishments were just starting to be brought up to his Alolan friends, his original friends undercut the moment by pointing out one of his past follies in regards to his quest for Gym badges. This really underminded a pretty good opportunity for Ash's past successes to at last be brought up, instead of being made to become a part of the past no longer considered relevant. I mean really now, by this point, Ash should be carrying around quite the reputation as a very skilled and talented Pokémon trainer and having the fact that two of his first gym badges were not won in the traditional sense be mentioned and revealed really put him at risk of losing some respect from his Alola classmates and he really didn't seem to have all that much of that as it was anyways, especially from Kiawe.

B.) That one scene where Misty taunts Ash after their battle bothers me because it seems upsetting that after all this time she still hasn't gotten over the need to do that. You may call that sticking with her character, but I call it her never getting over a bad habit. Ever since at some point during the Orange Island saga, Ash had begun to taunt Misty less and less, up until his taunting of her, at last, ceased all together. Nowadays, all he ever seems to do is praise her and her skills as a trainer and a gym leader. So the fact that she still has the need to taunt him is very hard to fathom.

Thank you for posting this.

 

[Champion Jared 14]

Lmaoo I don't see how some mild teasing is equal to Ash being demeaned in any significant way. He's the main character and will always be the point of focus primarily. Ash is routinely praised for his unconventional techniques and ability to pull out of a tough situation, as evidenced in the battle. What Misty said to him aftetwards is tantamount to Ash pointing out that she's still afraid of bug pokemon. There's nothing inherently negative about that at all. It's just a fact that Ash didn't win his first two kanto badges in customary fashion.

I know people really relish in potential opportunities for Ash to flex and display his accomplishments as a trainer, but given the length of the series and the show's shaky continuity, it really doesn't matter. Ash's accomplishments lost a great deal of impact during Johto and as the series moved on, being a "hot-shot" trainer from Pallet Town doesn't mean much if you're not close to Kanto. If anything, watching best wishes should've taught us that much.

 

[Navin]

B.) That one scene where Misty taunts Ash after their battle bothers me because it seems upsetting that after all this time she still hasn't gotten over the need to do that. You may call that sticking with her character, but I call it her never getting over a bad habit. Ever since at some point during the Orange Island saga, Ash had begun to taunt Misty less and less, up until his taunting of her, at last, ceased all together. Nowadays, all he ever seems to do is praise her and her skills as a trainer and a gym leader. So the fact that she still has the need to taunt him is very hard to fathom.

You do realize she's just playfully messing with him, right? Like, friends do that to each other.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

You do realize she's just playfully messing with him, right? Like, friends do that to each other.

You should know by now that if a character teases or calls out Ash on something and doesn't worship him that they're considered a bad character and is a mean person.
/sarcasm

 

[SH65]

You should know by now that if a character teases or calls out Ash on something and doesn't worship him that they're considered a bad character and is a mean person.
/sarcasm

And if someone does that to one of the pokegirls?

 

[Genaller]

You do realize she's just playfully messing with him, right? Like, friends do that to each other.

I think some people might have gotten bad memories from the “childish” part. Ash kind of asked for it when he got cocky after Misty’s praise and honestly that kind of cockiness is more of an OS/AG Ash trait and not a DP/XY Ash trait which does make SM Ash feel like a soft character regression since minimizing his cockiness was something he heavily worked on in AG. I also do agree with that guy’s other point about how Misty and Brock could of also talked up some of the more impressive things Ash has done as a trainer (like saving the world multiple times, defeating legendaries, winning the Orange League and of course conquering the Battle Frontier) instead of just bringing up a major negative in Ash mainly getting pity badges in Kanto which again I guess Ash was asking for with his previous boasting or at least they could’ve said that Ash also traveled the Johto region where he earned his badges fair and square in order to not totally undermine him in front of his classmates.

 

[Champion Jared 14]

And if someone does that to one of the pokegirls?

If it's justified, then I don't see anything wrong with it, but she didn't even do anything "bad".

If anything, I hope it made some amourshippers a bit jealous lol

 

[Navin]

I think some people might have gotten bad memories from the “childish” part. Ash kind of asked for it when he got cocky after Misty’s praise and honestly that kind of cockiness is more of an OS/AG Ash trait and not a DP/XY Ash trait which does make SM Ash feel like a soft character regression since minimizing his cockiness was something he heavily worked on in AG.

...or simply that he has a (better) relationship with Misty based on both of them enjoying being snarky/teasing one another.

 

[Genaller]

...or simply that he has a (better) relationship with Misty based on both of them enjoying being snarky/teasing one another.

Eh I really wasn’t a fan of Ash spouting “I know” in such a snobby manner after Misty gave him the sincere words of praise “you really have gotten stronger” (having someone who’s known Ash since he started out acknowledging his growth as a trainer is a very important and heartwarming moment for me and Ash undercutting that moment by segwaying into petty bantering doesn’t sit well with me). I can conceive of AG Ash responding like that but not DP or XY Ash. I’m putting the entire onus of this on Ash though since Misty was completely in the right for calling him out on such immature behavior.

 

[SH65]

Eh I really wasn’t a fan of Ash spouting “I know” in such a snobby manner after Misty gave him the sincere words of praise “you really have gotten stronger” (having someone who’s known Ash since he started out acknowledging his growth as a trainer is a very important and heartwarming moment for me and Ash undercutting that moment by segwaying into petty bantering doesn’t sit well with me). I can conceive of AG Ash responding like that but not DP or XY Ash. I’m putting the entire onus of this on Ash though since Misty was completely in the right for calling him out on such immature behavior.

So when Misty acts cocky its fine, but when Ash acts cocky its wrong?

 

[Champion Jared 14]

So when Misty acts cocky its fine, but when Ash acts cocky its wrong?

I think you're missing the point he was trying to make. Nowhere in that scene was she being cocky, she was merely pointing out the obvious. She genuinely praised his improvement (which is something ardent Ash devotees live for) but instead of humbly accepting it, he responded with something tantamount to an "Of course I have!". Would've been nice if he returned the compliment, but his response was definitely reminiscent of early Ash, you know, the one who acted like he had a chip on his shoulder.

 

[Janovy]

LOL@this fandom.

- wants Ash to brag about being stronger, complains that he is too humble
- Ash proudly claims he got stronger for once, fandom complains he is acting childish and cocky

This is hilarious.

Furthermore:

- When XY Ash didn't break down after losing, people complained that he was being emotionless.
- But if XY Ash broke down, people would legit call him a child for crying.

You guys are impossible.

 

[SH65]

LOL@this fandom.

- wants Ash to brag about being stronger, complains that he is too humble
- Ash proudly claims he got stronger for once, fandom complains he is acting childish and cocky

This is hilarious.

Furthermore:

- When XY Ash didn't break down after losing, people complained that he was being emotionless.
- But if XY Ash broke down, people would legit call him a child for crying.

You guys are impossible.

Same with you.

 

[pokedigijedi]

Question, did anyone in the episode address that Cerulean gym went through mass renovations since the last time Ash had been there? I don't speak Japanese (regrettably) and I've only seen episode pictures, the closet I've come to watching the episode was from clips on Youtube and even then only of the battle part of the episode and of them leaving Kanto