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Gym Battles, have they become tougher?

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Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
The early gym battles do seem a lot flashier and more threatening than before that does come at the cost of later gym battles risking a loss of quality. If the early gym leaders are throwing around Ice Beams and Psychics, then how are the later gym leaders supposed to look powerful when Ash's pokémon are reaching the same point of big and flashy moves? I think Roxie is proof enough that the writers were running low on ideas on how to make the final gym leader impressive.

And after Korrina's Mega Lucario it's difficult to think how Ramos could be made into an even more menacing opponent. I doubt they will give us another Mega but if Ramos just evolves his Weepinbell, he already has a team of fully-evolved mons. Something which Korrina didn't.

I still reckon that we could see Olympia and Wulfric own a Mega Alakazam/Abomasnow to increase their threatening presence. Which only give me more of a feeling of a powercreep in the animé..

As for Roxie, I think the writers wanted to give a good chunk of Ash's reserves a second gym battle. Boldore, Unfezant, Leavanny, Palpitoad.. They all had only been in a single gym battle. But then again, letting Pignite and Pikachu win again feels like going against that as well, but still, it would've been ridiculous if FIVE of Ash's pokemon had only been in a single Gym Battle.. Luckily Scraggy got the Donamite for himself entirely.

Same thing happened in DP, didn't it?

I could hardly call the moves that Gardenia used to be very impressive.. But I do credit DP for setting a tone.

I think at this point, there's so many more damaging moves to show off and use, it's easier on the writers. In earlier generations, things were more limited, now, there's room to show off different moves, that before would have seemed ridiculous for using in certain situations, especially earlier on.

Yes and no. I don't think it would've been hard for them to showcase more then 4 moves in the Goldenrod Gym Battle.. A Clefairy that only used Metronome, a Nidorina that just used Tackle and Poison Sting and Miltank that solely used Rollout? That wasn't a case of movesets being limited, it was a choice - because the Normal-type never has a limited amount of options.

I'm not saying that I would've expected Whitney's Miltank to break out a moveset consisting of Rollout, Ice Punch, Surf and Iron Tail back in the day, but Rollout, combined with Double Team, Attract (Whitney hands it out) and Body Slam wouldn't have been odd to see. And could've made the battle more then: How do we stop Rollout.. Though I guess that was a choice the writers made.

I guess Gym leaders are just tire of losing to ten year olds.

And why wouldn't they! :p
 

KKS-Lapras

Well-Known Member
Yes and no. I don't think it would've been hard for them to showcase more then 4 moves in the Goldenrod Gym Battle.. A Clefairy that only used Metronome, a Nidorina that just used Tackle and Poison Sting and Miltank that solely used Rollout? That wasn't a case of movesets being limited, it was a choice - because the Normal-type never has a limited amount of options.

I'm not saying that I would've expected Whitney's Miltank to break out a moveset consisting of Rollout, Ice Punch, Surf and Iron Tail back in the day, but Rollout, combined with Double Team, Attract (Whitney hands it out) and Body Slam wouldn't have been odd to see. And could've made the battle more then: How do we stop Rollout.. Though I guess that was a choice the writers made.

I think it's also a way of showing that Ash, even though he and Pikachu go through, in a manner of speaking, the reset each new generation, they still are progressing, by facing arguably tougher sets of opponents over all.
 

inkaybee

Well-Known Member
i wonder if the anime might change Ramos' team so as to make it tougher after seeing how tough Korrina's team was.
 

KKS-Lapras

Well-Known Member
i wonder if the anime might change Ramos' team so as to make it tougher after seeing how tough Korrina's team was.

They might, though as to what changes specifically, that's hard to predict. I think his gym will be heavy on strategy, from both Ramos and Ash.
 

LizardonX

Banned
Nope, they haven't.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
If Gym Leaders are so tough, it makes me wonder how new trainers who just get their starters from their friendly neighborhood professors even earn badges then, if they have all these advance moves right at the start with strong Pokemon.
 

k6666

Pikachu Fan
If Gym Leaders are so tough, it makes me wonder how new trainers who just get their starters from their friendly neighborhood professors even earn badges then, if they have all these advance moves right at the start with strong Pokemon.
maybe there other gym leader around ?
but yeah i kinda wondering how the new trainer gonna beat viola with freshly starter
 

Sarefan

Hylden General.
If Gym Leaders are so tough, it makes me wonder how new trainers who just get their starters from their friendly neighborhood professors even earn badges then, if they have all these advance moves right at the start with strong Pokemon.
My guess is that Gym Leaders got an arsenal of Pokémon to their disposal with different levels of strengths. They just pick their team of pokémon, depending on the level of their opponent. When they face a trainer with just 1 badge, they choose their weaker Pokémon, but when a trainer with 6 or 7 badges appear, they pick their more stronger Pokémon. Just my little theory.
 

k6666

Pikachu Fan
My guess is that Gym Leaders got an arsenal of Pokémon to their disposal with different levels of strengths. They just pick their team of pokémon, depending on the level of their opponent. When they face a trainer with just 1 badge, they choose their weaker Pokémon, but when a trainer with 6 or 7 badges appear, they pick their more stronger Pokémon. Just my little theory.
so the skating surskit is viola weakest :eek: wow
cause ash didnt have any badge when he face her
 

Janovy

Banned
Viola might have already heard from Alexa that Ash isn't exactly a newbie thus she chose a mire advanced strategy.
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
Yeah I'm also going with the "Number of Badges determines Level of Challenge Theory."
Mainly because I doubt Gym Leaders would be limited to just having only the Pokémon we see on screen. As for Ash's case and the cases for trainer's who've been to multiple regions, the Kalos Gym Leaders did all see him battle before, the fact that he usually states he's from Kanto implies he's had past experience there and I'm sure the Pokémon League provides a way via PokéDex for Gym Leaders to check both past and present badge history
 
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PokeMaster366

Well-Known Member
I think Gym Leaders also have access to a database linked through the Pokedex that lets them know the battle history of their opponents such as their placing in the various leagues and other major events/facilities (such as the Battle Frontier) held all over the world. This system is also used in order to keep Gym Leaders up to date on which trainers have been black-balled from the community (like that trio of Tentacruel trainers that cheated in the special with Misty and her Gyarados).

In all likelihood, the Pokedex can also be used as a sort of passport that allows the leagues, police, and other region/world officials (like the organization Agent Looker works for or the Pokemon Ranger organization) to keep track of natives and foreigners coming in and out of their respective regions and their purpose for visiting. There's a lot of episodes that could go into explaining just this whole system alone. There could even be an episode where Flare or some evil team hacks the system in order to track the movements of rivals and targets, but something like that would probably get too complicated for the regular audience.
 

Lorde

Banned
I still don't think Gym battles are getting harder per se; it's more like Ash's team in general is weak compared to the Gym Leaders' teams since he's barely starting out in Kalos, hence why he's struggled a bit and has had to devise better "strategies" and train more imho. He'll probably get better soon though.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
Yeah I'm also going with the "Number of Badges determines Level of Challenge Theory."
Mainly because I doubt Gym Leaders would be limited to just having only the Pokémon we see on screen. As for Ash's case and the cases for trainer's who've been to multiple regions, the Kalos Gym Leaders did all see him battle before, the fact that he usually states he's from Kanto implies he's had past experience there and I'm sure the Pokémon League provides a way via PokéDex for Gym Leaders to check both past and present badge history

I'd agree with that theory if Pokemon had like a Jr. Pokemon League for rookie trainers then. The Gym Leaders are suppose to test the trainers to see if there Pokemon are strong enough for the Pokemon League with their little badge system. The problem is all trainers are put in the same Pokemon League. So for a Gym Leader to hold back on a Rookie trainer and then like say use a Mega Pokemon on a veteran, why should the rookie trainer even bother? The E4 aren't going to use that same system. Odds are in the anime universe, Garchomp will be Cynthia's opening Pokemon too, and I doubt Cynthia and the others check to see how experienced the trainer is.

The anime is funny like that. For example Falker had a Pidgeot and Dodrio on his team when he's one of the early Gym Leaders. Obviously those were for Charizard and a non-reset Pikachu. But again, if Falker uses these Pokemon on Ash, then switches to like a Pidgey and Hoothoot for a rookie trainer, who's going to benefit more when it's Pokemon League time?

The number of badges to determine the level is a good theory, if we had a Pokemon League for junior/rookie trainers.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
I'd agree with that theory if Pokemon had like a Jr. Pokemon League for rookie trainers then. The Gym Leaders are suppose to test the trainers to see if there Pokemon are strong enough for the Pokemon League with their little badge system. The problem is all trainers are put in the same Pokemon League. So for a Gym Leader to hold back on a Rookie trainer and then like say use a Mega Pokemon on a veteran, why should the rookie trainer even bother? The E4 aren't going to use that same system. Odds are in the anime universe, Garchomp will be Cynthia's opening Pokemon too, and I doubt Cynthia and the others check to see how experienced the trainer is.

The anime is funny like that. For example Falker had a Pidgeot and Dodrio on his team when he's one of the early Gym Leaders. Obviously those were for Charizard and a non-reset Pikachu. But again, if Falker uses these Pokemon on Ash, then switches to like a Pidgey and Hoothoot for a rookie trainer, who's going to benefit more when it's Pokemon League time?

The number of badges to determine the level is a good theory, if we had a Pokemon League for junior/rookie trainers.

I completely disagree with having to have junior/rookie trainers leagues, only because you technically build up your pokemon to take on tougher opponents. I think that pokemon chronicles or whatever the video game adaptation was did a good job when they showed that Brock was going to use certain pokemon based off of how many badges Red had.

I think the point of the Champions league, that IIRC, was referenced if you beat the pokemon league, so the Champions league is essentially like the more advance trainer league you referred to, I also feel like the league is sort of the junior/rookie trainer league in the sense of only the winner is able to challenge the elite four officially.

However, I am sure the pokemon universe has some sort of league to what you are referring to, like the Junior cup in BW that Trip won, so I think you might have answered your own question?
(I pray that this wasn't all made up in my head. )


I still don't think Gym battles are getting harder per se; it's more like Ash's team in general is weak compared to the Gym Leaders' teams since he's barely starting out in Kalos, hence why he's struggled a bit and has had to devise better "strategies" and train more imho. He'll probably get better soon though.

Agreed, I feel like the upcoming evolution episode, and the good battles that Hawlucha and Fletchinder put in for the last gym is the sign that Pikachu won't have to be the final mon to take home the gym badge.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
I completely disagree with having to have junior/rookie trainers leagues, only because you technically build up your pokemon to take on tougher opponents. I think that pokemon chronicles or whatever the video game adaptation was did a good job when they showed that Brock was going to use certain pokemon based off of how many badges Red had.

I think the point of the Champions league, that IIRC, was referenced if you beat the pokemon league, so the Champions league is essentially like the more advance trainer league you referred to, I also feel like the league is sort of the junior/rookie trainer league in the sense of only the winner is able to challenge the elite four officially.

However, I am sure the pokemon universe has some sort of league to what you are referring to, like the Junior cup in BW that Trip won, so I think you might have answered your own question?
(I pray that this wasn't all made up in my head. )




Agreed, I feel like the upcoming evolution episode, and the good battles that Hawlucha and Fletchinder put in for the last gym is the sign that Pikachu won't have to be the final mon to take home the gym badge.

I don't care for a Junior Pokemon League. I was saying a system like that would work in with the number of badges. Rookie trainers pretty much have a 100% chance of losing the Pokemon League anyway. But this thread has made me realize how glad I am they never made two trainers going for badges on the show. Even though I've said I've always wanted to see one of the female leads go for the 8 badges, I'm glad they never did it with Ash still on the show. She'd get easier opponents and get criticized for it. Same if it were a male rookie trainer going for the league on the same main cast.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
I don't care for a Junior Pokemon League. I was saying a system like that would work in with the number of badges. Rookie trainers pretty much have a 100% chance of losing the Pokemon League anyway. But this thread has made me realize how glad I am they never made two trainers going for badges on the show. Even though I've said I've always wanted to see one of the female leads go for the 8 badges, I'm glad they never did it with Ash still on the show. She'd get easier opponents and get criticized for it. Same if it were a male rookie trainer going for the league on the same main cast.

perhaps, but maybe they could finally not reset Pikachu, and have Ash focus on his past teams of pokemon. Idk it would make total sense if they finally aged him and wanted to be consistent.
 
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