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Gym Battles, have they become tougher?

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deathseer

Oh, u mad bro?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that there has been an instance of a Gym Leader openly admitting to holding back or purposefully using weaker Pokemon. I think the case is that the Gym Leaders are all tough across the map and not solely based on what order we fight them in the games. In the anime, it is implied or outright stated that you can start your Pokemon journey from any city. So I would guess that you would be able to challenge that Gym Leader as your first one even if in the games you "supposed" to take them on at a later time. Sure the Gym Leader can turn you down for lack of experience and ask that you come back with a few more badges, but I think that's more to do with the fact that badges are sort of an indicator on how skilled you are and if you come back to that Gym Leader that said you were inexperienced with 4-6 badges, they would be able to take you more seriously as to them, they are pretty hard to obtain and getting just one of them is a rough go.

They even say that of the hundreds of trainers that make it to League, thousands more don't even qualify due to how hard it is to get 8 badges. It easy to see that Gym leaders don't hold back, no matter who they are battling. Otherwise there would a be larger pool of trainers that make it to League due to Gym leaders holding back on them.

My guess is that the attitude the writers are going with. There is no set order in which the Gyms are supposed to be challenged at so there is no need to make one seem weaker or easier than the other. They are all tough and they shouldn't be holding back.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that there has been an instance of a Gym Leader openly admitting to holding back or purposefully using weaker Pokemon. I think the case is that the Gym Leaders are all tough across the map and not solely based on what order we fight them in the games. In the anime, it is implied or outright stated that you can start your Pokemon journey from any city. So I would guess that you would be able to challenge that Gym Leader as your first one even if in the games you "supposed" to take them on at a later time. Sure the Gym Leader can turn you down for lack of experience and ask that you come back with a few more badges, but I think that's more to do with the fact that badges are sort of an indicator on how skilled you are and if you come back to that Gym Leader that said you were inexperienced with 4-6 badges, they would be able to take you more seriously as to them, they are pretty hard to obtain and getting just one of them is a rough go.

They even say that of the hundreds of trainers that make it to League, thousands more don't even qualify due to how hard it is to get 8 badges. It easy to see that Gym leaders don't hold back, no matter who they are battling. Otherwise there would a be larger pool of trainers that make it to League due to Gym leaders holding back on them.

My guess is that the attitude the writers are going with. There is no set order in which the Gyms are supposed to be challenged at so there is no need to make one seem weaker or easier than the other. They are all tough and they shouldn't be holding back.

Hmm, I feel like the final teams a lot of us see in BW2's world tournament and the Battle Mansion or w/e the name of that building is in XY shows us the final teams of the gym leaders with all of their pokemon being at the same level. I think that applies what you are saying versus the matchups we see in the anime of the 1st versus 8th gym battles. No doubt they don't hold back, but i do seriously think for some reason that a gym leader uses certain pokemon based off the trainer they are fighting.
 

Janovy

Banned
Pokemon Origins basically confirms that gym leaders have multiple Pokemon at their disposal. Brock asks Red if he has any badges, Red says he has none and Brock specifically chooses to use two Pokemon, Geodude and Onix, whereas it's clearly shown that he has AT LEAST six.
 

phanpycross

God-king
In DP Roark said he was constantly training to become better, yet he didnt mind his cranidos evolving, so Im guessing he has plenty of Rampardos lying around in his boxes.
 

Pepsi_Plunge

Dojyaaa~~aan
Pokemon Origins basically confirms that gym leaders have multiple Pokemon at their disposal. Brock asks Red if he has any badges, Red says he has none and Brock specifically chooses to use two Pokemon, Geodude and Onix, whereas it's clearly shown that he has AT LEAST six.

And Cheren, we know Cheren has a strong team yet he uses a weak team against us in BW2.
 
I thought it was pretty obvious that Gym Leaders have two teams nowadays. I admit that Brock and Misty's teams weren't all that impressive back in the day, but Pewter and Cerulean have an arsenal of badasses now. I don't really see any newbies beating trainers like the Kalos Gym Leaders either, so

1. There are different Gyms for beginner trainers.

2. Only the experts really get the privilege of fighting a Gym Leader's main Pokémon.

Man, I really hope they highlight this later on.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
I thought it was pretty obvious that Gym Leaders have two teams nowadays. I admit that Brock and Misty's teams weren't all that impressive back in the day, but Pewter and Cerulean have an arsenal of badasses now. I don't really see any newbies beating trainers like the Kalos Gym Leaders either, so

1. There are different Gyms for beginner trainers.

2. Only the experts really get the privilege of fighting a Gym Leader's main Pokémon.

Man, I really hope they highlight this later on.

If new trainers can't beat the Kalos Gym Leaders, then what's the point of trainers even getting a starter Pokemon in Kalos and even having a league? Are we expected to believe that every trainer in the league has been through 5 or more different regions in the Kalos league? Correct me if I'm wrong but Trip went to the Unova League and he just became a trainer, right? So are Gym Leaders as inconsistent as Ash is?
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
If new trainers can't beat the Kalos Gym Leaders, then what's the point of trainers even getting a starter Pokemon in Kalos and even having a league? Are we expected to believe that every trainer in the league has been through 5 or more different regions in the Kalos league? Correct me if I'm wrong but Trip went to the Unova League and he just became a trainer, right? So are Gym Leaders as inconsistent as Ash is?

No, I think it more so highlights the fact that beginner trainers need to fight easy gyms when they start off, because once they build up strength they will be able to take on the stronger gym leaders.
 
No, I think it more so highlights the fact that beginner trainers need to fight easy gyms when they start off, because once they build up strength they will be able to take on the stronger gym leaders.

Exactly what I was trying to say, Gym Leaders just test the beginners with weak Pokémon. They only use their full power to beat trainers with experience.
 

Lorde

Banned
Agreed, I feel like the upcoming evolution episode, and the good battles that Hawlucha and Fletchinder put in for the last gym is the sign that Pikachu won't have to be the final mon to take home the gym badge.

I still expect Pikachu to shine at every other Gym battle though due to his mascot status; I was just saying that Ash's other Pokemon are bound to get stronger as well and put up better fights at Gyms soon in my opinion, not that they'll all outshine Pikachu per se.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
I still expect Pikachu to shine at every other Gym battle though due to his mascot status; I was just saying that Ash's other Pokemon are bound to get stronger as well and put up better fights at Gyms soon in my opinion, not that they'll all outshine Pikachu per se.

I agree with you too, I guess I just met he might not be the one to take down the final pokemon in a few, sort of like the flying gym in BW. I think some people are hoping for a DP era gym pikachu where it would take down a pokemon, but not star, or just be the fall guy. I still feel like Pikachu was robbed of that ghost gym.
 
I agree with you too, I guess I just met he might not be the one to take down the final pokemon in a few, sort of like the flying gym in BW. I think some people are hoping for a DP era gym pikachu where it would take down a pokemon, but not star, or just be the fall guy. I still feel like Pikachu was robbed of that ghost gym.

I don't know what's wrong with Pikachu starring in some of the earlier Gym Battles. At that point, Ash's Pokémon were relatively new and had little experience. However, I expect Hinoyakoma and Luchabull to star in the upcoming Gym anyway, so no harm done.
 

inkaybee

Well-Known Member
I don't know what's wrong with Pikachu starring in some of the earlier Gym Battles. At that point, Ash's Pokémon were relatively new and had little experience. However, I expect Hinoyakoma and Luchabull to star in the upcoming Gym anyway, so no harm done.

Pikachu has been fine thus far, but i hope they cut back on it's use, especially against all the others, barring maybe Clemont.
 

KKS-Lapras

Well-Known Member
Pikachu has been fine thus far, but i hope they cut back on it's use, especially against all the others, barring maybe Clemont.

Pikachu needs to sit out or at least not "star", as others call it, in 4 of the remaining gyms.
 
Pikachu has been fine thus far, but i hope they cut back on it's use, especially against all the others, barring maybe Clemont.

I think Pikachu can be avoided during the 4th Gym, since Ramos is a Grass type trainer and Hinoyakoma and Luchabull are pretty much enough to take him out. If any backup is needed, Keromatsu should be enough.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
I think Pikachu can be avoided during the 4th Gym, since Ramos is a Grass type trainer and Hinoyakoma and Luchabull are pretty much enough to take him out. If any backup is needed, Keromatsu should be enough.

agreed, unless they bring in a new Pokemon. If that happens, it seems like for a starter, he will be underused. Speaking of which, is he the least used starter owned by Ash in gym battles if you go by the base form?
 
agreed, unless they bring in a new Pokemon. If that happens, it seems like for a starter, he will be underused. Speaking of which, is he the least used starter owned by Ash in gym battles if you go by the base form?

I think so. Keromatsu has only been used in a single Gym so far, which will be his last Gym before he evolves. Considering Ash's other Starters took more time to evolve and appeared in at least one Gym battle in their base form, he's either tied for lowest or just has the lowest out of all of them.
 

Captain America X

Well-Known Member
I think so. Keromatsu has only been used in a single Gym so far, which will be his last Gym before he evolves. Considering Ash's other Starters took more time to evolve and appeared in at least one Gym battle in their base form, he's either tied for lowest or just has the lowest out of all of them.
I'm expecting him to take part in at least 5 gym battles in total by the end of the series.
 
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