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Gym Battles, have they become tougher?

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phanpycross

God-king
well totodile (waninoko) was only used in one gym and the rematch in Jhoto.

Yeah, but he shared the screentime with two other pokemon, and he was introduced last, much in the vain of squirtle and snivy doing all that much.

Froakie as a solo starter should defo be used more than that.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
I'm expecting him to take part in at least 5 gym battles in total by the end of the series.

That means he needs to be used in all by one of the remaining gyms. Not sure if he should sit out the electric gym with clemont or the grass gym. I'd rather see him take part of the grass gym, with a new pokemon, pikachu, and another new pokemon or one of the birds fighting in that one. I can see Frogadier do well in the ice, psychic, the fairy gym if he is not evolved into greninja by then.
 

Lorde

Banned
That means he needs to be used in all by one of the remaining gyms. Not sure if he should sit out the electric gym with clemont or the grass gym. I'd rather see him take part of the grass gym, with a new pokemon, pikachu, and another new pokemon or one of the birds fighting in that one. I can see Frogadier do well in the ice, psychic, the fairy gym if he is not evolved into greninja by then.

Given how he flopped against his first Fairy-type opponent, I doubt he'd do well against Valerie tbh. I'm not sure why Frogadier would need that much Gym battle screen-time anyway.
 

Captain America X

Well-Known Member
Given how he flopped against his first Fairy-type opponent, I doubt he'd do well against Valerie tbh. I'm not sure why Frogadier would need that much Gym battle screen-time anyway.
I don't get your logic,because he lost against his first fairy type opponent,he won't do well against the fairy type gym leader?That doesn't make sense.

Also he flopped because of Attract,not because Sylveon was a fairy type.If it wasn't for that he would have won.
 

inkaybee

Well-Known Member
I don't get your logic,because he lost against his first fairy type opponent,he won't do well against the fairy type gym leader?That doesn't make sense.

Also he flopped because of Attract,not because Sylveon was a fairy type.If it wasn't for that he would have won.

it'll be a different ball game against other new Fairy types, and past Pokemon that he's used to only considering from other type angles that now also have the Fairy typing.
 

KKS-Lapras

Well-Known Member
it'll be a different ball game against other new Fairy types, and past Pokemon that he's used to only considering from other type angles that now also have the Fairy typing.

Valerie being an expert of Fairy types in general makes this more interesting then just some random Sylveon trainer.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Did gym leaders became tougher?

I dont think they are any stronger than gym leaders Ash fought against in previous generations(Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh etc).

Only difference is that as time goes on animation and visual effects improve thanks to better technology available on market.

Style of battle improves with writers putting more effort and detail into them learning from past tries and making sure to deliver more gratiifyng job next time around. Giving out sensation of witnessing to playful spectacl full of colors, brute strength and innovative usage of attacks.

As new games come out introducing new pokemon and expanded moveset pokemon are capable of learning transfers to anime itself, hence explaining why in modern times like its case now with Viola or Grant gym. Techniques and defense mechanisms this gym leaders utilized seem more diversified and impressive on paper than what we as viewers got used to be seeing before.

With choice of attacks and moveset we used to be seeing in past such as water gun, tackle, flamethrower etc for today standards becoming outdated and predictable , presenting with newer gym leaders more sphosticated techniques such as drain punch, focus blast, protect or solar beam for example.

As far as strength of gym leaders goes:
- its well known fact how job of gym leaders is to examine challengers, bond between them and their pokemon, physical preparation and ability to promptly react in stressful sitiuation. Rather than using their full arsenal and run down into the ground any challnger.

Determining if they have enough talent in themselves, passion and teamwork to qualify for regional league.

In such cases when battling rookies gym leaders either use weaker pokemon or weaken deliberately their potential with their pokemon not using full strength of their attacks or not applying best combinations and strategy like they would when battling trainers of much higher calliber.

It is unavailing job and can lead to stagnation over time depending on how often they face trainers of mediocre and beginner capacity but its neeeded to give chance for new upcoming trainers to earn badge. Hence why many of them are seen traveling to search for stronger trainers, to develop more effective battle style, catch pokemon or enter tournaments in case of wishing to advance from current position.

I recall some even openly admitted like Blaine or Volkner how they lost interest or got tired in constantly battling weak trainers not learning anything new that way.

On other hand when more powerful and battle hardened veterans or very talented for their age challengers come to gym such as Paul, Gary when still being active trainer and Ash. In case gym leaders are aware of their previous record with such trainers using older reserves or fully prepared and tuned up for toughest battles they could face pokemon team caught in new regions.

I imagine they do not hold themselves back giving out all they got than. Which seemed to be situation in very big percentage of gym, battles Ash faced like Clair, Brawly, Fantina etc.

Serving as clear indication how while gym leader have certain standards and amount of knowledge they expect even from weakest challengers to deminstrate fulfiling criteria and earning respect to be given badge; they obviously wont go all in and with same strategy, strength of their pokemon attacks like they use when battling experienced veterans who for years train and battle.

Against beginners and fairly inexperienced trainers yielding on them abit.

Another detail which i feel should be brought up is how i dont think gym leaders strength is determined in order through they come in games.

Being possible that in anime earlier gym leaders Ash face coming of as stronger and more challenging than gym leaders who appear later.

For instance in games Maylene and Flannery comes as 3rd and 4th gym leaders. But in anime they have been shown as inexperienced gym leaders being at this position for short period of time. Their battle style and skills werent all that impressive either.

Like it was case with Roark for example who i feel gave Ash bigger run for his money than Maylene or Crasher Wake did who came of as big disappointment imo.

In Johto i had same impression with Whitney who seemed to be much bigger of hurdle to overcome through that devastating Miltank than Chuck was.

Or in Hoenn feeling Brawly and Norman were stronger bite to overcome for Ash than Wattson, Winona for example.

Portraying gym leaders, battles and power creep in more realistic and organic way with earlier gym leaders you face possibly giving you much harder time than those which come later.

Compared to games where there exists numerical order in strength of gym leaders as you climb your way up. For simplicity of programming and ease of measuring how much experience and power your pokemon get after each battle.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Newer/fancier animation quality + animator experience in depicting gym battles give a veneer that the gyms have become tougher.


Still, to some extent, yeah, the leaders have become stronger, and use more complex moves/strategies. You can argue that a lot of it has to do with above, but also I agree with the theory that the gym leaders adjust their benchmarks based on the trainer they are facing. Like they have a minimum gym standard for newbies and a maximum gym standard reserved for experienced trainers.
 

XanderCage

Loose Cannon Cop
I think that Origins explained it the best. The Gym Leader assesses the challenger and chooses Pokemon based on the perceived strength of the challenger. Things that are considered are gym badges, how long they have been traveling, bonds with pokemon etc. Ash's gym battles have become increasingly difficult because he is such a veteran trainer and the Gym Leaders and adjusting their own pokemon's strength and strategies accordingly.
 

inkaybee

Well-Known Member
I think that Origins explained it the best. The Gym Leader assesses the challenger and chooses Pokemon based on the perceived strength of the challenger. Things that are considered are gym badges, how long they have been traveling, bonds with pokemon etc. Ash's gym battles have become increasingly difficult because he is such a veteran trainer and the Gym Leaders and adjusting their own pokemon's strength and strategies accordingly.

i sometimes wonder if the gym leaders know who Ash is, having seen him battle on tv in previous leagues, or if word travels from other people traveling through the various regions, gym leaders having friends in other regions, etc, and that may explain how and why it sometimes appears the gym matches are a little tougher each new series.
 

KKS-Lapras

Well-Known Member
i sometimes wonder if the gym leaders know who Ash is, having seen him battle on tv in previous leagues, or if word travels from other people traveling through the various regions, gym leaders having friends in other regions, etc, and that may explain how and why it sometimes appears the gym matches are a little tougher each new series.

I wonder that to. We know that many of the gym leaders in Kalos seem to know one another, so word may indeed travel amongst them.
 

inkaybee

Well-Known Member
I wonder that to. We know that many of the gym leaders in Kalos seem to know one another, so word may indeed travel amongst them.

Clemont seems to be out of the loop. being that he's the youngest, I guess it makes sense, but, he does require trainers have 4 badges to challenge him, and he's in the middle of the Kalos region, in the biggest city, you'd think he'd know more then he seems to.
 

KKS-Lapras

Well-Known Member
I can say, Ramos already looks to be more competent then what many others predicted he'd be. I'm glad that's the case, he's my favorite of the Kalos gym leaders.
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
I can say, Ramos already looks to be more competent then what many others predicted he'd be. I'm glad that's the case, he's my favorite of the Kalos gym leaders.

I am glad to. I think Korrina was just foreshadowing how tough the other will be, even without Mega's.
 

LizardonX

Banned
When the gym leaders are so terrible as to lose to a pikachu using a mega evolution, you know they've hit rock bottom difficulty.
 

Dark_king

King of Ice
When the gym leaders are so terrible as to lose to a pikachu using a mega evolution, you know they've hit rock bottom difficulty.
Wasnt said gym leader a beginner at mega evolution? Every other mega evolution, ash has lost to.

I do think however that gym battles are tougher and more engaging to me than previous battles.
 

Lorde

Banned
Wasnt said gym leader a beginner at mega evolution? Every other mega evolution, ash has lost to.

Yeah. I still thought that the Gym battle was cheap, but that had less to do with Pikachu's win and more to do with the battle in general.

I do think however that gym battles are tougher and more engaging to me than previous battles.

I disagree. Personally, they've bored me with their predictability. :x
 
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