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Gym Leaders and Elite Four Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

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Wishing Star

Astral Charm Owner
But plenty of gym leaders have helped out like that

Gym leaders helping out the player character throughout their struggle is somewhat overused. I don't really know how to explain it. :/
 

★ Mr. Mime ★

Man of Mystery
Would anybody have preferred Cheren over Iris to be the Champion?

I don't mind Iris as champ, but I think it would have been more interesting to see a story revolved around Cheren becoming Champion.
 

Aurath8

Well-Known Member
Would anybody have preferred Cheren over Iris to be the Champion?

I don't mind Iris as champ, but I think it would have been more interesting to see a story revolved around Cheren becoming Champion.

I think having Cheren as champion would render most of his character development in BW almost meaningless. Considering how Cheren felt postgame in BW, I think it makes more sense for him to become the first gym leader tutoring new trainers and realising that strength isn't everything.
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
Would anybody have preferred Cheren over Iris to be the Champion?

I don't mind Iris as champ, but I think it would have been more interesting to see a story revolved around Cheren becoming Champion.

I'd rather it be Iris.
 

Nyarlathotep

Eldritch Abomination
Would anybody have preferred Cheren over Iris to be the Champion?

I don't mind Iris as champ, but I think it would have been more interesting to see a story revolved around Cheren becoming Champion.
I am satisfied with Iris being the Champion.

Cheren as the first GL and she as the champ contributed to the character development of both characters.
 

Nibbles4Ever

1 more day ^^
I think Cheren should have been champion instead of Iris. He just fits the role more.
 
I think Cheren should have been champion instead of Iris. He just fits the role more.

Not really. It would seem more of a rehash of Blue, I don't know. Plus his arc was learning how other other things besides becoming stronger is more important. That's why he's a teacher.

Bianca on the other hand would be more suiting than Iris
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
But then that would ignore her character development

I think Cheren and Bianca are fine where they are.

Her character development was her thinking she's a weak trainer. Her becoming an assistant is pretty much her saying "yeah I am so I'm gonna give up and do something else". Champion would be more fitting
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
Her character development was her thinking she's a weak trainer. Her becoming an assistant is pretty much her saying "yeah I am so I'm gonna give up and do something else". Champion would be more fitting

Her character development was figuring out what she wanted to do in life. She accepted that she was never going to be as good as you or Cheren (although one wonders why her name is listed on the Certified Trainers statues, then), and later on decided that she was going to become a researcher so that she could befriend more and more Pokemon, which is why she appears in Juniper's lab during BW's post-game.
 
Her character development was figuring out what she wanted to do in life. She accepted that she was never going to be as good as you or Cheren (although one wonders why her name is listed on the Certified Trainers statues, then), and later on decided that she was going to become a researcher so that she could befriend more and more Pokemon, which is why she appears in Juniper's lab during BW's post-game.

But that's what I was disappointed with. She essentially gave up on being as good as Cheren and Hilbert
 

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
Her character development was figuring out what she wanted to do in life. She accepted that she was never going to be as good as you or Cheren (although one wonders why her name is listed on the Certified Trainers statues, then)

But, she was as good as the protagonist and Cheren. As you stated, she has defeated Unova's eight Gyms, and her Pokemon are actually at higher levels than Cheren's in the post-game (granted, they have suckier movesets and no items). Bianca's problem was never so much her lack of ability as it was her confidence in her abilities, and allowing her to become Champion, while admittedly unexpected, could tie up her story as showing her as having faith in her skills, which makes her a better battler and good Champion.
 
Yeah, instead they gave it to Iris, which felt like a rehash of Wallace being 8th gym leader and all. And admittedly, Bianca was kinda useless in BW2. They could have had Drayden be the gym leader in Black 2 and Iris in White 2
 

R_N

Well-Known Member
But, she was as good as the protagonist and Cheren. As you stated, she has defeated Unova's eight Gyms, and her Pokemon are actually at higher levels than Cheren's in the post-game (granted, they have suckier movesets and no items). Bianca's problem was never so much her lack of ability as it was her confidence in her abilities, and allowing her to become Champion, while admittedly unexpected, could tie up her story as showing her as having faith in her skills, which makes her a better battler and good Champion.

Besides it's nice to have a rival or otherwise important character find that "Hey, I don't want to just do battling"

She kind of mirrors Oak's decisions, of all people
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
Yeah, instead they gave it to Iris, which felt like a rehash of Wallace being 8th gym leader and all. And admittedly, Bianca was kinda useless in BW2. They could have had Drayden be the gym leader in Black 2 and Iris in White 2

It didn't feel like a rehash to me, but I guess that might be because me and a few other users on here were already predicting that she would be the Champion once we saw the cover of a Japanese strategy guide that showed all of the BW2 Gym Leaders on the cover (obviously, Iris wasn't featured).

Besides that, I really like the old Champion/young Champion contrast between the games. Iris is practically the diametric opposite of Alder. Alder is experienced and wise, while Iris is new and a little impulsive. Alder's Champion room is architecturally reserved and resembles and old temple, while Iris has her whole "space dragon princess" thing (which is awesome in of itself) going on. Alder uses a mix-and-match party that focuses on variety/strategy, while Iris uses a dinosaur-themed party that focuses on force. And so on.
 

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
It didn't feel like a rehash to me, but I guess that might be because me and a few other users on here were already predicting that she would be the Champion once we saw the cover of a Japanese strategy guide that showed all of the BW2 Gym Leaders on the cover (obviously, Iris wasn't featured).

Besides that, I really like the old Champion/young Champion contrast between the games. Iris is practically the diametric opposite of Alder. Alder is experienced and wise, while Iris is new and a little impulsive. Alder's Champion room is architecturally reserved and resembles and old temple, while Iris has her whole "space dragon princess" thing (which is awesome in of itself) going on. Alder uses a mix-and-match party that focuses on variety/strategy, while Iris uses a dinosaur-themed party that focuses on force. And so on.

I'll just quote myself in response, 'cuz I'm lazy:

While I'm neutral as to whether or not it looks good, I rather like the idea and symbolism behind it; a younger, newer Champion has taken charge, and while she's certainly skilled, we can tell from the oversized, loose-fitting dress that she has large shoes to fill, and that she'll likely grow into her role more in the future. The backstory of the clothes being Drayden's idea? That makes it so much better. We can tell from it that though she has surpassed her mentor, she doesn't have his vast experience, and still defers to him in matters beyond Pokemon.

At least, I hope that's what they were going for with it. Otherwise this post seems incredibly stupid.

man they were so forgettable

Who was so forgettable?
 
I've long said that Cheren & Bianca were basically Wally & Brendan/May done right. Completely forgot they just wanted to bug off and help their dad (supposedly....)


man they were so forgettable

Okay I completely agree with Bianca, but they were nothing like Cheren
 
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