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Gym Leaders and Elite Four Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

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Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
I agree...how many NPCs have had a Mantine on their team? I can think of only one.

Mantine definitely deserves a place on Shizui's first roster. If they decide not to include it in that roster for whatever reason, then I at least hope it's present in Shizui's updated roster after the Elite Four (that's if we get to battle the Gym Leaders again, of course).
 
So I was casually playing my Soulsilver in chucks gym while looking at the BW2 gym leaders and I had an amazing thought!!! :D

Say for example Homika's a early gym leader, gamefreak would want to make the first gym simple correct? So I thought that mabye when you enter the gym, Homika and her other instrumentalists would be jamming away and Homika would be so into her music that she doesn't notice you. So you have to battle the other 2 band members and when you defeat them, they stop playing. When it's only Homika playing she realises and stops to see a challenger for her gym.

If I'm anywhere near the mark I'll be chuffed. :D
 
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Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
Or give him a Mantyke so his rematch can have mantine depending on his placement

Mantyke if he's early; Mantine if he's late.

I suppose. I'm not a huge Mantyke fan, but it's certainly better than some of the other Water-types Shizui could have. I really liked the Golduck suggestion; it just seems like a Pokemon that Shizui would have because it's supposed to be a great swimmer. And I know that Golduck isn't the first Pokemon that comes to mind when you think about beaches and palm trees, but I hope Shizui has one anyway.
 

AuraChannelerChris

I can't Kominicate.
Would it be plausible for Shizui to have a Tropius? I mean, it sort of resembles a palm. :p

But on the (probably) serious side, I expect Lotads to be in the gym. Those lilipads should be hinting at Lotads and Lombres.
 
Last edited:

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Would it be plausible for Shizui to have a Tropius? I mean, it sort of resembles a palm. :p

No, Gym Leaders and Elite 4 members don't use random Pokemon unless they don't have enough of their specialty type in the regional dex.

But on the (probably) serious side, I expect Lotads to be in the gym. Those lilipads should be hinting at Lotads and Lombres.

Just like how Bugsy had a Spinarak in HGSS because the gym puzzle involved Spinaraks.

So I was casually playing my Soulsilver in chucks gym while looking at the BW2 gym leaders and I had an amazing thought!!! :D

Say for example Homika's a early gym leader, gamefreak would want to make the first gym simple correct? So I thought that mabye when you enter the gym, Homika and her other instrumentalists would be jamming away and Homika would be so into her music that she doesn't notice you. So you have to battle the other 2 band members and when you defeat them, they stop playing. When it's only Homika playing she realises and stops to see a challenger for her gym.

If I'm anywhere near the mark I'll be chuffed. :D

That'd be pretty neat, actually.

EDIT: Reposting my Gym Leader Speculation:

Homika-
Koffing Lv. 12
Venipede Lv. 14

Shizui-
Psyduck Lv. 17
Gyarados Lv. 18
Frillish Lv. 20

Burgh-
Scyther Lv. 20
Dwebble Lv. 21
Leavanny Lv. 23

Elesa-
Emolga Lv. 24
Tympole Lv. 24
Raichu Lv. 25
Zebstrika Lv. 27

Skyla (In my headcanon, Skyla is fought before Clay. I know it's unlikely, but just go with it. The only difference if they were switched would be the levels)
Rufflet Lv. 31
Togetic Lv. 32
Skarmory Lv. 33
Unfezant Lv. 35

Clay
Palpitoad Lv. 35
Camerupt Lv. 37
Krokorok Lv. 38
Excadrill Lv. 40

New Dark type gym leader
Umbreon Lv. 42
Absol Lv. 43
Drapion Lv. 44
Weavile Lv. 45
Zoroark Lv. 47

Drayden/Iris
Vibrava Lv. 45
Druddigon Lv. 47
Zweilous Lv. 48
Haxorus Lv. 50

Elite 4:

Shauntal:
Gengar Lv. 51
Spiritomb Lv. 52
Golurk Lv. 54
Cofagrigus Lv. 55
Chandelure Lv. 57

Brycen:
Cryogonal Lv. 51
Glalie Lv. 52
Abamasnow Lv. 54
Beartic Lv. 55
Vanilluxe Lv. 57

Caitlin:
Espeon Lv. 51
Gothitelle Lv. 52
Reuniclus Lv. 54
Metagross Lv. 55
Musharna Lv. 57

New Grass type Elite 4 member:
Leafeon Lv. 51
Whimsicott Lv. 52
Ferrothorn Lv. 54
Roserade Lv. 55
Lilligant Lv. 57

Marshall:
Scrafty Lv. 54
Hariyama Lv. 55
Sawk Lv. 57
Mienshao Lv. 59
Lucario Lv. 60
Conkeldurr Lv. 62

Gym Leader Rematch Teams:

Homika
Nidoqueen Lv. 60
Ariados Lv. 61
Drapion Lv. 62
Crobat Lv. 63
Weezing Lv. 64
Scolipede Lv. 65

Shizui
Kingler Lv. 60
Octillery Lv. 61
Sharpedo Lv. 62
Gyarados Lv. 63
Golduck Lv. 64
Jellicent Lv. 65

Burgh
Kricketune Lv. 60
Ninjask Lv. 61
Heracross Lv. 62
Scizor Lv. 63
Vespiquen Lv. 64
Leavanny Lv. 65

Elesa
Jolteon Lv. 60
Ampharos Lv. 61
Raichu Lv. 62
Luxray Lv. 63
Zebstrika Lv. 64
Eelektross Lv. 65

Skyla
Staraptor Lv. 60
Skarmory Lv. 61
Altaria Lv. 62
Unfezant Lv. 63
Togekiss Lv. 64
Braviary Lv. 65

Clay
Steelix Lv. 60
Camerupt Lv. 61
Krookodile Lv. 62
Rhyperior Lv. 63
Garchomp Lv. 64
Excadrill Lv. 65

Dark type Gym Leader
Umbreon Lv. 60
Absol Lv. 61
Houndoom Lv. 62
Honchkrow Lv. 63
Weavile Lv. 64
Zoroark Lv. 65

Drayden and Iris (Double Battle)
Kingdra Lv. 62
Druddigon Lv. 62
Dragonite Lv. 63
Salamence Lv. 63
Haxorus Lv. 65
Hydreigon Lv. 65

Lenora
Watchog Lv. 60
Cincinno Lv. 61
Ambipom Lv. 62
Stoutland Lv. 63
Clefable Lv. 64
Blissey Lv. 65

Cilan, Chili, and Cress (Rotational/Triple Battle)
Simisage Lv. 70
Simisear Lv. 70
Simipour Lv. 70

Elite 4 Rematch:

Shauntal
Spiritomb Lv. 71
Mismagius Lv. 72
Cofagrigus Lv. 73
Dusknoir Lv. 74
Gengar Lv. 75
Chandelure Lv. 77

Brycen:
Cryogonal Lv. 71
Glalie Lv. 72
Beartic Lv. 73
Abamasnow Lv. 74
Mamoswine Lv. 75
Vanilluxe Lv. 77

Caitlin
Xatu Lv. 71
Gardevoir Lv. 72
Espeon Lv. 73
Reuniclus Lv. 74
Metagross Lv. 75
Musharna Lv. 77

Grass Type Elite 4 Member:
Cherrim Lv. 71
Tangrowth Lv. 72
Bellosom Lv. 73
Ferrothorn Lv. 74
Roserade Lv. 75
Lilligant Lv. 77

Marshall
Hariyama Lv. 73
Machamp Lv. 75
Gallade Lv. 76
Mienshao Lv. 77
Lucario Lv. 78
Conkeldurr Lv. 80

Champion Meetup (fought in a similar fashion to the Elite 4):

Lance
Flygon Lv. 81
Haxorus Lv. 82
Garchomp Lv. 83
Hydreigon Lv. 83
Salamence Lv. 83
Dragonite Lv. 85

Steven
Forretress Lv. 81
Bastiodon Lv. 82
Ferrothorn Lv. 83
Bronzong Lv. 83
Aggron Lv. 83
Metagross Lv. 85

Cynthia
Spiritomb Lv. 80
Eelektross Lv. 81
Braviary Lv. 83
Milotic Lv. 83
Lucario Lv. 83
Garchomp Lv. 85

Alder
Waillord Lv. 81
Bisharp Lv. 82
Archeops Lv. 83
Bouffalant Lv. 83
Druddigon Lv. 83
Volcarona Lv. 85

Hilbert/Hilda
Excadrill Lv. 85
Zoroark Lv. 85
Serperior Lv. 87
Emboar Lv. 87
Samurott Lv. 87
Reshiram/Zekrom Lv. 100
 
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Blackjack the Titan

It’s been a while
Reposting my Gym Leader Speculation:

Elite 4:

Shauntal:
Gengar Lv. 51
Spiritomb Lv. 52
Golurk Lv. 54
Cofagrigus Lv. 55
Chandelure Lv. 57

Brycen:
Cryogonal Lv. 51
Glalie Lv. 52
Abamasnow Lv. 54
Beartic Lv. 55
Vanilluxe Lv. 57

Caitlin:
Espeon Lv. 51
Gothitelle Lv. 52
Reuniclus Lv. 54
Metagross Lv. 55
Musharna Lv. 57

New Grass type Elite 4 member:
Leafeon Lv. 51
Whimsicott Lv. 52
Ferrothorn Lv. 54
Roserade Lv. 55
Lilligant Lv. 57

Marshall:
Scrafty Lv. 54
Hariyama Lv. 55
Sawk Lv. 57
Mienshao Lv. 59
Lucario Lv. 60
Conkeldurr Lv. 62

I really like the idea of a Grass Elite.
Also why did Elesa have a Tympole in her team. Sorry I deleted that part from the quote.
 

thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
I'm going to continue my post from earlier


Unova gym leaders:
[SPOIL]
1) Steel type gym leader - Magnemite, Klink (Rematch: Magnezone, Metagross, Lucario, Bisharp, Klinklang)
2) Poison type gym leader - Koffing, Scolipede (Rematch: Weezing, Toxicroak, Skuntank, Garbodor, Scolipede)
3) Grass type gym leader - Foongus, Cacnea(Unova has deserts), Whismicott (Rematch: Cacturne, Amoongus, Sawsbuck, Lilligant, Whimsicott)
4) Water type gym leader - Golduck, Mantine, Seismitoad (Rematch: Golduck, Mantine, Alomomola, Kingler, Seismitoad)
5) Fire type gym leader - Magmar, Camerupt(Deserts), Darmanitan (Rematch: Arcanine, Camerupt, Heatmor, Magmortar, Darmanitan)
6) Rock type gym leader - Rhydon, Pupitar, Gigalith (Rematch: Rhyperior, Tyranitar, Probopass, Kabutops, Gigalith)
7) Flying type gym leader - Sigilyph, Dodrio, Braviary (Sigilyph, Dodrio, Skarmory, Honchkrow, Braviary)
8) Dark type gym leader -Mandibuzz, Zweilous, Zoroark (Rematch: Manibuzz, Hydreigon, Absol, Weavile, Zoroark)
[/SPOIL]

Elite 4:
[SPOIL]
Shauntal - Jellicent, Confagrigus, Golurk, Dusknoir, Chandelure
Marshal - Sawk, Throh, Meinshao, Breloom, Scrafty, Conkeldurr
Cheren - Liepard, Simisear, Haxorus, Galvantula, Lucario, Serperior
Adler - Acelgor, Escavalier, Bouffalant, Salamence, Ursaring, Volcarona
[/SPOIL]

Champion:
[spoil]
N - Archeops, Carracosta, Vanilluxe, Klinklang, Zoroark, Hydreigon (From Ghetsis?)
[/spoil]

Post Elite 4 - additional gym leaders:
[SPOIL]
Cilan, Chili, Cress (triple/rotation battle) - Simisage, Simisage, Simipour
Lenora - Watchog, Girafarig, Stoutland, Lickilicky, Tauros
Burgh - Leavanny, Crustle, Pinser, Durant, Heracross
Elesa - Zebstrika, Emolga, Ampharos, Stunfisk, Eelecktross
Clay - Krookodile, Marowak, Donphan, Excadrill, Flygon
Skyla - Swanna, Swoobat, Unfezant, Tropius, Togekiss
Brycen - Beartic, Vanilluxe, Cryogonol, Glalie, Lapras
Iris/Drayden - Haxorus, Druddigon, Dragonite, Garchomp, Salamence, Hydreigon
[/SPOIL]

Final boss:
[spoil]
Hilda/Hilbert - Samurott, Cincinno, Simisage, Raichu, Reuniclus, Zekrom/Reshiram (depending on the version you're playing)
[/spoil]

Battle Frontier:
[spoil]
Caitlin and Darach - Gothitelle and Gallade
Grimsley - Bisharp, Drapion, Darkrai
The Subway twins - Depends on the challenge
Bianca - Emboar, Simipour, Musharna
New character
New character
[/spoil]
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I really like the idea of a Grass Elite.

We really need one. For that matter, I'm thinking of replacing Shauntal, Caitlin, and Marshal as well. We've had three Psychic, Fighting, Ghost, and Dark Elite 4 members, but no Grass, Electric, Rock, Normal, or Flying (unless you count Lance) Elite 4 members.

EDIT: Replaced Shauntal with a new Rock type Elite 4 member:

Homika-
Koffing Lv. 12
Venipede Lv. 14

Shizui-
Psyduck Lv. 17
Gyarados Lv. 18
Frillish Lv. 20

Burgh-
Scyther Lv. 20
Dwebble Lv. 21
Leavanny Lv. 23

Elesa-
Emolga Lv. 24
Tynamo Lv. 24
Raichu Lv. 25
Zebstrika Lv. 27

Skyla (In my headcanon, Skyla is fought before Clay. I know it's unlikely, but just go with it. The only difference if they were switched would be the levels)
Rufflet Lv. 31
Togetic Lv. 32
Skarmory Lv. 33
Unfezant Lv. 35

Clay
Palpitoad Lv. 35
Camerupt Lv. 37
Krokorok Lv. 38
Excadrill Lv. 40

New Dark type gym leader
Umbreon Lv. 42
Absol Lv. 43
Drapion Lv. 44
Weavile Lv. 45
Zoroark Lv. 47

Drayden/Iris
Vibrava Lv. 45
Druddigon Lv. 47
Zweilous Lv. 48
Haxorus Lv. 50

Elite 4:

Brycen:
Cryogonal Lv. 51
Glalie Lv. 52
Abamasnow Lv. 54
Beartic Lv. 55
Vanilluxe Lv. 57

New Rock type Elite 4 member:
Aggron Lv. 51
Gigalith Lv. 52
Archeops Lv. 54
Rhyperior Lv. 55
Tyranitar Lv. 57

Caitlin:
Espeon Lv. 51
Gothitelle Lv. 52
Reuniclus Lv. 54
Metagross Lv. 55
Musharna Lv. 57

New Grass type Elite 4 member:
Leafeon Lv. 51
Whimsicott Lv. 52
Ferrothorn Lv. 54
Roserade Lv. 55
Lilligant Lv. 57

Marshall:
Scrafty Lv. 54
Hariyama Lv. 55
Sawk Lv. 57
Mienshao Lv. 59
Lucario Lv. 60
Conkeldurr Lv. 62

Gym Leader Rematch Teams:

Homika
Nidoqueen Lv. 60
Ariados Lv. 61
Drapion Lv. 62
Crobat Lv. 63
Weezing Lv. 64
Scolipede Lv. 65

Shizui
Kingler Lv. 60
Octillery Lv. 61
Sharpedo Lv. 62
Gyarados Lv. 63
Golduck Lv. 64
Jellicent Lv. 65

Burgh
Kricketune Lv. 60
Ninjask Lv. 61
Heracross Lv. 62
Scizor Lv. 63
Vespiquen Lv. 64
Leavanny Lv. 65

Elesa
Jolteon Lv. 60
Ampharos Lv. 61
Raichu Lv. 62
Luxray Lv. 63
Zebstrika Lv. 64
Eelektross Lv. 65

Skyla
Staraptor Lv. 60
Skarmory Lv. 61
Altaria Lv. 62
Unfezant Lv. 63
Togekiss Lv. 64
Braviary Lv. 65

Clay
Steelix Lv. 60
Camerupt Lv. 61
Krookodile Lv. 62
Rhyperior Lv. 63
Garchomp Lv. 64
Excadrill Lv. 65

Dark type Gym Leader
Umbreon Lv. 60
Absol Lv. 61
Houndoom Lv. 62
Honchkrow Lv. 63
Weavile Lv. 64
Zoroark Lv. 65

Drayden and Iris (Double Battle)
Kingdra Lv. 62
Druddigon Lv. 62
Dragonite Lv. 63
Salamence Lv. 63
Haxorus Lv. 65
Hydreigon Lv. 65

Lenora
Watchog Lv. 60
Cincinno Lv. 61
Ambipom Lv. 62
Stoutland Lv. 63
Clefable Lv. 64
Blissey Lv. 65

Cilan, Chili, and Cress (Rotational/Triple Battle)
Simisage Lv. 70
Simisear Lv. 70
Simipour Lv. 70

Elite 4 Rematch:

Brycen:
Cryogonal Lv. 71
Glalie Lv. 72
Beartic Lv. 73
Abamasnow Lv. 74
Mamoswine Lv. 75
Vanilluxe Lv. 77

New Rock type Elite 4 member:
Aggron Lv. 71
Gigalith Lv. 72
Rampardos Lv. 73
Archeops Lv. 74
Rhyperior Lv. 75
Tyranitar Lv. 77

Caitlin
Xatu Lv. 71
Gardevoir Lv. 72
Espeon Lv. 73
Reuniclus Lv. 74
Metagross Lv. 75
Musharna Lv. 77

Grass Type Elite 4 Member:
Cherrim Lv. 71
Tangrowth Lv. 72
Bellosom Lv. 73
Ferrothorn Lv. 74
Roserade Lv. 75
Lilligant Lv. 77

Marshall
Hariyama Lv. 73
Machamp Lv. 75
Gallade Lv. 76
Mienshao Lv. 77
Lucario Lv. 78
Conkeldurr Lv. 80

Champion Meetup (fought in a similar fashion to the Elite 4):

Lance
Flygon Lv. 81
Haxorus Lv. 82
Garchomp Lv. 83
Hydreigon Lv. 83
Salamence Lv. 83
Dragonite Lv. 85

Steven
Forretress Lv. 81
Bastiodon Lv. 82
Ferrothorn Lv. 83
Bronzong Lv. 83
Aggron Lv. 83
Metagross Lv. 85

Cynthia
Spiritomb Lv. 80
Eelektross Lv. 81
Braviary Lv. 83
Milotic Lv. 83
Lucario Lv. 83
Garchomp Lv. 85

Alder
Waillord Lv. 81
Bisharp Lv. 82
Archeops Lv. 83
Bouffalant Lv. 83
Druddigon Lv. 83
Volcarona Lv. 85

Hilbert/Hilda
Excadrill Lv. 85
Zoroark Lv. 85
Serperior Lv. 87
Emboar Lv. 87
Samurott Lv. 87
Reshiram/Zekrom Lv. 100

Also why did Elesa have a Tympole in her team. Sorry I deleted that part from the quote.

Mainly for the challenge in having to face a Pokemon with no weaknesses (unless you can nullify Levitate).

1) Steel type gym leader - Magnemite, Klink (Rematch: Magnezone, Metagross, Lucario, Bisharp, Klinklang)

Steel is a terrible first gym type. It's too punishing for players who aren't familiar with type matchups since Steel resists everything. Plus, its weaknesses are somewhat uncommon in the early game.

Cheren - Liepard, Simisear, Haxorus, Galvantula, Lucario, Serperior

Cheren wouldn't have just one starter and even if he did, it'd probably be dependent on your starter.

N - Archeops, Carracosta, Vanilluxe, Klinklang, Zoroark, Hydreigon (From Ghetsis?)

Seems quite OOC for N to become Champion. The only reason he did it in BW1 was to free Pokemon from humans, and he still believes in that ideal, so it's highly unlikely that he'd retain that title.

Hilda/Hilbert - Samurott, Cincinno, Simisage, Raichu, Reuniclus, Zekrom/Reshiram (depending on the version you're playing)

They'd probably only have Pokemon in the Old Unova Dex, so I doubt they'd have Raichu.

Grimsley - Bisharp, Drapion, Darkrai

Not saying this can't happen, but I'd like an explanation as to why Grimsley became a Frontier Brain. Also, off topic, but doesn't the BW2 rival look like Grimsley's son?


Bianca - Emboar, Simipour, Musharna

Bianca is unlikely to become a Frontier Brain, she seems quite happy as Professor Juniper's assistant.
 
Last edited:

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
But on the (probably) serious side, I expect Lotads to be in the gym. Those lilipads should be hinting at Lotads and Lombres.

I don't think Shizui will have a Lotad or a Lombre since they seem more like freshwater Pokemon, but perhaps some of the Gym trainers will use them. You know, people never seem to care about Gym trainers, but I think they're interesting. In fact, I always look forward to battling against Gym trainers because the battles are always a good source of experience.
 

Grei

not the color
We really need one. For that matter, I'm thinking of replacing Shauntal, Caitlin, and Marshal as well. We've had three Psychic, Fighting, Ghost, and Dark Elite 4 members, but no Grass, Electric, Rock, Normal, or Flying (unless you count Lance) Elite 4 members.

EDIT: Replaced Shauntal with a new Rock type Elite 4 member

While I like the creativity from you and others, I don't think anybody should seriously expect the entire Unova region's Gym and Elite 4 structure to be overhauled. The Elite 4 will likely stay exactly the same. If there was any change, it'd probably only be one person--and I could see Darach getting involved somehow. Masuda (or someone) said that Darach is closer to Caitlin than we know of in Black and White, which makes me think he's in Unova. If he isn't a character we already know of--like Grimsley--he'll likely appear as himself in BW2.

But beyond that? I wouldn't expect such radical changes. A lot can change in two years, but not that much needs to change in two years.

Cheren wouldn't have just one starter and even if he did, it'd probably be dependent on your starter.

Why would he have more than one starter? That makes no sense. Canonically, Cheren only obtained one starter.

Seems quite OOC for N to become Champion. The only reason he did it in BW1 was to free Pokemon from humans, and he still believes in that ideal, so it's highly unlikely that he'd retain that title.

That reasoning makes no sense. If he became Champion to free Pokemon and still feels that way now, he'd logically still want to retain the title.
And anyway, that's not true. By the end of BW, N has had a change of heart.

N (After Final Battle) said:
"… … Zekrom/Reshiram and I were beaten. Your truth/ideals… Your feelings… They were stronger than mine, it seems… Reshiram and Zekrom… Each of them choosing a different hero… Is that even possible? Two heroes living at the same time— one that pursues truth and one that pursues ideals. Could… Could they both be right? I don't know. It's not by rejecting different ideas, but by accepting different ideas that the world creates a chemical reaction. This is truly the formula for changing the world."
"But…I have no right to be the hero!"
"Acting like you understand… Up till now, we've been fighting each other over our beliefs! Yet, despite that… Why?!"
"I want to talk to you about something."
"It's about when I first met you in Accumula Town. I was shocked when I heard what your Pokémon was saying. I was shocked because that Pokémon said it liked you. It said it wanted to be with you."
"I couldn't understand it. I couldn't believe there were Pokémon that liked people. Because, up until that moment, I'd never known a Pokémon like that. The longer my journey continued, the more unsure I became. All I kept meeting were Pokémon and people who communicated with one another and helped one another. That was why I needed to confirm my beliefs by battling with you. I wanted to confront you hero-to-hero. I needed that more than anything."
"There's no way a person like me, someone who understands only Pokémon— No, actually… I didn't understand them, either. No way could I measure up to you, when you had met so many Pokémon and were surrounded by friends…"
"The Champion has forgiven me, and… What I should do now is something I'll have to decide for myself."

He admits that the correct way to live is to accept different ideas, and that he doesn't understand Pokemon in the way he thought he did. That doesn't indicate at all that he still believes Pokemon should be separate from humans. That indicates that he realized his perception of the Pokemon-human bond was flawed.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
While I like the creativity from you and others, I don't think anybody should seriously expect the entire Unova region's Gym and Elite 4 structure to be overhauled. The Elite 4 will likely stay exactly the same. If there was any change, it'd probably only be one person--and I could see Darach getting involved somehow. Masuda (or someone) said that Darach is closer to Caitlin than we know of in Black and White, which makes me think he's in Unova. If he isn't a character we already know of--like Grimsley--he'll likely appear as himself in BW2.

But beyond that? I wouldn't expect such radical changes. A lot can change in two years, but not that much needs to change in two years.

Well look at how much has changed in Unova since BW1. There's tons of new areas, major changes to old ones, and completely new gym leaders. It's not unreasonable to expect a completely new Elite 4, especially considering how lackluster BW1's was.

Why would he have more than one starter? That makes no sense. Canonically, Cheren only obtained one starter.

True, but since he's no longer the rival, he probably wouldn't be using his starter. I doubt he'll somehow acquire all three (if anyone would, that'd be Hilbert/Hilda), but I don't think he'll be using just one either.

That reasoning makes no sense. If he became Champion to free Pokemon and still feels that way now, he'd logically still want to retain the title.
And anyway, that's not true. By the end of BW, N has had a change of heart.



He admits that the correct way to live is to accept different ideas, and that he doesn't understand Pokemon in the way he thought he did. That doesn't indicate at all that he still believes Pokemon should be separate from humans. That indicates that he realized his perception of the Pokemon-human bond was flawed.

I'll admit my memory of the ending of BW1 isn't crystal clear, but didn't he leave to find a way to free Pokemon from humans without forcing other people? My interpretation was that he was still in favor of humans and Pokemon living separately, but was more accepting of other trainers living with Pokemon if they treat them with respect. Either way, there are better candidates for the Champion title than N.
 

cascadethewarrior

~Ðiva and Lucariϕ~
No, Gym Leaders and Elite 4 members don't use random Pokemon unless they don't have enough of their specialty type in the regional dex.

Not true. Candice from Sinnoh used a random Medicham when there were plenty of ice types to choose from in the regional dex.
 

rocky505

Well-Known Member
Not true. Candice from Sinnoh used a random Medicham when there were plenty of ice types to choose from in the regional dex.

Yes it's true. She had medicham because there were only two ice type lines in dp snover line and sneasel line. Same goes for volkner except he could've used pachirisu but it was too weak for an 8th gym
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Same goes for volkner except he could've used pachirisu but it was too weak for an 8th gym

Lt. Surge has a mother****ing Pachirisu (I seriously ROFL'd when I found out that was his last Pokemon) in his rematch team in HGSS. Volkner has no excuse. Still, the point remains that DP is (IIRC) the only time they've done that and that was only because the DP Sinnoh Dex lacked diversity.
 
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rocky505

Well-Known Member
Lt. Surge has a mother****ing Pachirisu (I seriously ROFL'd when I found out that was his last Pokemon) in his rematch team in HGSS. Volkner has no excuse.

Because pachirisu was the only 4th gen electric type not used by Volkner.
 

Grei

not the color
Well look at how much has changed in Unova since BW1. There's tons of new areas, major changes to old ones, and completely new gym leaders. It's not unreasonable to expect a completely new Elite 4, especially considering how lackluster BW1's was.

Well, lackluster by your standards. ;) I happened to like Unova's Elite Four on a whole, and I found them to be fairly challenging when you battle them for real (post-main story, anyway).

True, but since he's no longer the rival, he probably wouldn't be using his starter. I doubt he'll somehow acquire all three (if anyone would, that'd be Hilbert/Hilda), but I don't think he'll be using just one either.

I'm not sure I follow what you think, then. So you're saying he'd for some reason have two of the starters? I would not be surprised if Cheren, Bianca, and Hilbert/Hilda all had set Starters in BW2. I wouldn't see anything wrong with it.

I'll admit my memory of the ending of BW1 isn't crystal clear, but didn't he leave to find a way to free Pokemon from humans without forcing other people? My interpretation was that he was still in favor of humans and Pokemon living separately, but was more accepting of other trainers living with Pokemon if they treat them with respect. Either way, there are better candidates for the Champion title than N.

He just sort of leaves, saying he has to figure out what to do now that his worldview has been shattered.

But yeah, I don't see him as the Champion. If Alder isn't the Champion, I'd imagine Drayden or Cheren would be. Although, if GF did it my way, Lt. Surge would be the Champion, since he's American and having an Electric-type Champion would be intense.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Well, lackluster by your standards. ;) I happened to like Unova's Elite Four on a whole, and I found them to be fairly challenging when you battle them for real (post-main story, anyway).

First of all, as with pretty much anything in Pokemon, "challenging" depends on which Pokemon you use. When I first battled the Elite 4, I had trouble with Marshall, but that was because the only Pokemon I had that had a type advantage was Archeops. Other than that, I pretty much mopped the floor with them. At any rate, the BW1 Elite 4 just weren't that memorable, the trainers themselves weren't that interesting, and the types they used have been done not once, but twice before when there's about half a dozen types that have been unused. That's why I consider them lackluster.

I'm not sure I follow what you think, then. So you're saying he'd for some reason have two of the starters? I would not be surprised if Cheren, Bianca, and Hilbert/Hilda all had set Starters in BW2. I wouldn't see anything wrong with it.

I'm saying he's either going to have 3 or 0 starters (probably 0). And fixed starters don't make sense considering how open ended Pokemon is, that's basically saying there's only one "right" starter to pick.

Although, if GF did it my way, Lt. Surge would be the Champion, since he's American and having an Electric-type Champion would be intense.

If they add in Lt. Surge, then they may have to remove Elesa (not necessarily, but typically they don't double up on types in one game), and I don't see a reason for them to do so. Either way, I would at least like to see him get a cameo explaining what his relation to Unova is.
 
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