Gym Leaders and Elite Four Discussion Thread [Read First Post]

[Aurath8]

There's lots of things to talk about. Whether something new, unnoticed, inspired, or different is brought up is a different matter.

My thoughts on Shizui's gym is that Undella town is a real possibility. Why I think so is for multiple reasons. I'll put them in the order you'd go through the game:

1. If you do take the plane from Mistralton to the east mountain, Twist mountain won't be visited (mining may have collapsed it). Replacing it, however, would be the east mountain's cave.

Looks likely. I still want to travel to Icirrus and have an event at Dragon Spiral Tower necessitating us to travel to the Giant chasm. Tubeline bridge could collapse in the afermath of the event meaning we need to travel to East Unova by plane. That would mean we pass through 2 large caves and a tower in quick succession, though.

3. Both Undella and Icirrus have a story important landmark to the north, with the Giant Chasm mirroring Dragonspiral tower. Speaking of mirroring, they're both placed on opposite sides of the map. Speaking of opposites, ones a tower and the others a crater. I find this cool.

Looks like this games structure could very well mirror BW1's. Thoughts on any of the points I brought up?

I think Shizui could be the 7th leader after Brycen, living in Undella town. Also I think we'll need to travel out into Undella bay with an event happening in the Abyssal Ruins in a similar way to Relic Castle. Clearly something has changed in the bay at least.

EDIT: Looking at the map again makes it seem like nothings happened to Twist Mountain. This doesn't necessarily mean nothing's happened. Not saying anythings definitely going to happen either, though.

True. Twist mountain looks unchanged. Also most of the altered places are underneath the ice while only the Northern exit in Icirrus is covered.

Anyone know what gym number is the water and poison type leaders??

No. All we know is that Homika appears early on she only has two Pokemon. Shizui appears to be later since he has 3 Pokemon and there are Ace trainers in his gym but we really have no idea. He is also seen in a hut near the sea which implies that he appears somewhere in Eastern Unova, such as Undella town as all the other town's near the sea in west Unova are harbours.

 

[mitchman_93]

That building on the mountain's gonna be a gym. Something tells me we're gonna go to Iccirus for the DS Tower, but not for the gym.

 

[Wulava]

Icirrus is a pretty bland place. IMO, the gym also seems out of place.
I won't be surprised if the gym is removed.

 

[Lorde]

No. All we know is that Homika appears early on she only has two Pokemon. Shizui appears to be later since he has 3 Pokemon and there are Ace trainers in his gym but we really have no idea. He is also seen in a hut near the sea which implies that he appears somewhere in Eastern Unova, such as Undella town as all the other town's near the sea in west Unova are harbours.

Why does the fact that Shizui has three Pokemon automatically mean that he's going to be encountered later in the games? Last time I checked, Bugsy had three Pokemon, yet he was the second Gym Leader in the Johto region. Gardenia also had three Pokemon, and she was only the second Sinnoh Gym Leader. Heck, Roxanne had three Pokemon in Emerald version, and she was just the first Gym Leader. I think it's possible that Shizui is the second Gym Leader.

 

[Sceptrigon]

I wonder what would happen to Lenora and the Waiter Triplets?

I am actually hoping that the Waiter trio would be removed from the game... they're annoying.

Eh, it's likely that they've moved to another area in the Unova region not covered in ice, and they probably have new buildings to work in. On the other hand, I'm hoping that all the characters from B/W will have an appearance in the sequels, though I don't think it's likely they would inlcude all of them. It would be nice to be able to battle them again, even if they might not be gym leaders anymore.

Icirrus is a pretty bland place. IMO, the gym also seems out of place.
I won't be surprised if the gym is removed.

Yeah, it does seem that way. I've always thought that the place didn't have much, other than the Fan club, wild pokemon and gym. I hope they'll add something more about Unova's history there (other than people reciting minor details about Reshiram/Zekrom), especially since it's close to the Dragonspiral Tower. I really think Brycen is gonna have some place in the plot, though, certainly if he isn't a gym leader anymore, either.

 

[Dooney]

Why does the fact that Shizui has three Pokemon automatically mean that he's going to be encountered later in the games? Last time I checked, Bugsy had three Pokemon, yet he was the second Gym Leader in the Johto region. Gardenia also had three Pokemon, and she was only the second Sinnoh Gym Leader. Heck, Roxanne had three Pokemon in Emerald version, and she was just the first Gym Leader. I think it's possible that Shizui is the second Gym Leader.

For me it's not so much the number of Pokemon (I mean, Chuck was no.5/6 and he had 2 Pokemon in G/S/C/HG/SS), but the location of his gym. I'd say for sure it is in Undella town, the pictures of him away from the gym would seem to confirm this.

 

[KickAsh]

Icirrus is a pretty bland place. IMO, the gym also seems out of place.
I won't be surprised if the gym is removed.

I'm hoping that BW2 will have a Safari Zone, and that it will be in Icirrus. With the expanded dex, it is now completely viable to have a pre-E4 Safari Zone with rare Pokemon from the Unova dex, and post E4 Safari Zone with rare Pokemon from the National Dex. I think Iccirus is a good candidate because it has plenty of space (the Moor of Icirrus), and not much is in that space at all.
But I think a Gym is necessary because without a Gym, Icirrus becomes one of most forgettable cities ever. All it has going for it is a Gym and the only entrance to Dragonspiral Tower. Without a Gym, it's basically just a pit stop on the way to Dragonspiral Tower.

I think it's possible that Shizui is the second Gym Leader.

That's what I think, too, but I've had trouble placing where his Gym could be. First I thought it could possibly be here, which is early enough in the game, but appears to be more of a cave entrance than an island. So I'm inclined to have to believe this--

For me it's not so much the number of Pokemon (I mean, Chuck was no.5/6 and he had 2 Pokemon in G/S/C/HG/SS), but the location of his gym. I'd say for sure it is in Undella town, the pictures of him away from the gym would seem to confirm this.

 

[Grei]

Homika is the First Gim leader in a Industry Zone
Burgh is the 2nd Gym LEader in Castelia City
Elesa is the third gym leader in Nimbasa
Clay is the Fourth gym leader in Driftevil
Skyla is the fifth gym leader in Mistralton
A New gym leader is the sixth in Black City, with other name.
Shizui is the Seventh gym leader in Undella
Iris is the Eight gym leader in Opelucid

Why would we travel to areas under the ice? The ice is hiding things for a reason. I seriously doubt we'll be able to visit any of the areas of Unova hidden by the ice prior to completing the main story.

 

[SurfingHaxorus]

I'm surprised no one thought of this but what if the new gym leaders are version excluives. Think about it we have black 2 and White 2. what if Shizui and Homika appear as leaders in one version only?

 

[ArmyOfOneIX]

I'm surprised no one thought of this but what if the new gym leaders are version excluives. Think about it we have black 2 and White 2. what if Shizui and Homika appear as leaders in one version only?

they are two different type of leaders though drayden/iris where the same type leader

 

[Grei]

I'm surprised no one thought of this but what if the new gym leaders are version excluives. Think about it we have black 2 and White 2. what if Shizui and Homika appear as leaders in one version only?

We already know that Shizui has three Pokemon, while Homika has two, so they aren't version exclusives.

 

[Soperman]

I wonder what would happen to Lenora and the Waiter Triplets?

I am actually hoping that the Waiter trio would be removed from the game... they're annoying.

They never did anything, besides add to the anime.

 

[Grey Wind]

Why would we travel to areas under the ice? The ice is hiding things for a reason. I seriously doubt we'll be able to visit any of the areas of Unova hidden by the ice prior to completing the main story.

Really? It's incredibly likely that Shizui's Gym will be in Undella Town (well, at least to me - there's no other beach), so I think we'll have to travel underneath the ice. I doubt there's going to be ~7 post-game towns/cities to explore, it seems like an awful lot. Plus, we're going to have to give either the second town, the tiny mountain town, or Anville Town a Gym just to have enough. It'll feel very... cramped.

 

[Grei]

Really? It's incredibly likely that Shizui's Gym will be in Undella Town (well, at least to me - there's no other beach), so I think we'll have to travel underneath the ice. I doubt there's going to be ~7 post-game towns/cities to explore, it seems like an awful lot. Plus, we're going to have to give either the second town, the tiny mountain town, or Anville Town a Gym just to have enough. It'll feel very... cramped.

Warning: oncoming rant~

Explain why there's ice covering that part of the region, then. If it's a part of the main story like the confirmed cities--old and new--why hide it from us? Why hide certain random cities from us, but not others? Better yet, why hide Undella Town from us if they're going to show us Shizui so much?

Shizui doesn't have to be in Undella. He can be in the new port town, or he can be on one of those nearby islands.

From the looks of it, you and your rival are on a random beach with a cave, and Shizui is in front of a boat or ship or something. What if this screenshot isn't even on the Unova map? It could be a Sevii Islands type of situation (which is unlikely given the information we have now, but I really see nowhere on the Unova map--Undella included--that fits the characteristics of this screenshot).
What if it's outside of the map, or simply not visible on the map (similar to the island on the Routes just west of Nuvema town)?
There are so many possibilities. Right now, a bunch of you are assuming that Undella is accessible--despite being under ice and purposely hidden from us, unlike a ton of other towns and cities--and that is based on the assumption that wherever Shizui is standing at the above screenshot is a part of Undella (despite Undella not having a cave, and there being no caves like that anywhere near Undella). If you're going to make huge assumptions, then you need to account for the facts that are confounding your assumption. First, why would Undella be accessible if ice is covering it? Second, why would Undella have a random cave, and a port/building situated on the water? It's slightly believable that a new Pacifidlog-style section of the city would be built onto Undella, but the presence of a cave doesn't make as much sense. Further, the Pokemon center in Undella was situated on a rock plateau, while in the above screenshot, it's on sand.

This isn't directed just at you, Sapphire Sceptile, as you're nowhere near the only one who has brought this speculation to the table. I'm directing this at everyone, because frankly, I'm tired of hearing these honestly weird theories that have no backup included.

EDIT: My bad, I missed some screenshots. My challenge for real backup still stands, however.

 

[Grey Wind]

Explain why there's ice covering that part of the region, then. If it's a part of the main story like the confirmed cities--old and new--why hide it from us? Why hide certain random cities from us, but not others? Better yet, why hide Undella Town from us if they're going to show us Shizui so much?

Major changes? That's really the only reason they'd have for hiding it at all. The only "old" city that can be seen with major changes is Driftveil. We can already see that Undella has changes, Dragonspiral Tower has changes, and that there's a new area close to the league. Plus, the Striaton Gym is likely to have been removed (or at least changed) considering Cress is a Water-type leader. There may be many spoilers in the covered towns that they don't want to reveal, while the shown cities (Mistralton, Castelia, Nimbasa, Opelucid) have minor changes.

Shizui doesn't have to be in Undella. He can be in the new port town, or he can be on one of those nearby islands. (And before anyone says "no that's Liberty Garden Tower we can't have a Gym there!!1"--oh? Since when is Game Freak not allowed to use certain areas for Gyms? As this is a sequel, with various areas developed, I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to use that island for a Gym and make that location a part of the actual game.)

He actually can't be anywhere there, though. We are always shown Gyms on the map, and there's no Gym that can be Shizui's anywhere we see. There's a beach beside his Gym, and we can't see any beach on the map. Even if the beach just isn't shown, there's no Gym, and any buildings that could be the Gym aren't on the coast.

Hell, he can even be in a random city. Just because we see him on a beach (gasp, a Water-type Gym Leader near water) does not mean that his Gym is located there.

We see his actual Gym beside the beach, so.

Right now, a bunch of you are assuming that Undella is accessible

Well, we kind of have to. We're just speculating (although that's generally a bad argument, but we don't have enough info at this point) - there's no way of knowing yet whether or not the ice-covered areas are accessible or not during the main story.

and that is based on the assumption that wherever Shizui is standing at the above screenshot is a part of Undella

I'm pretty sure people are basing the Undella thing off of this picture.

(despite Undella not having a cave, and there being no caves like that anywhere near Undella)

Well, that's just another assumption, really. We can't see Undella properly right now, so there could easily be some caves added.

First, why would Undella be accessible if ice is covering it? Second, why would Undella have a random cave, and a port/building situated on the water?

Why not? They really just add any random things they want to. Why does Driftveil have a random crater? Why does Nimbasa have a random extra building?

This isn't directed just at you, Sapphire Sceptile, as you're nowhere near the only one who has brought this speculation to the table. I'm directing this at everyone, because frankly, I'm tired of hearing these honestly weird theories that have no backup included.

It does have backup, though. Shizui's Gym is on a beach, and the only beaches are Undella and Route 18. Even if they're not showing the beach, we can't see the Gym anywhere. Not to come off as harsh or anything, but your only argument against it is that the ice covers the post-game areas - something we don't know yet.

 

[Lord Of Grapes]

I'm surprised no one thought of this but what if the new gym leaders are version excluives. Think about it we have black 2 and White 2. what if Shizui and Homika appear as leaders in one version only?

they are two different type of leaders though drayden/iris where the same type leader

We already know that Shizui has three Pokemon, while Homika has two, so they aren't version exclusives.

I think/hope what surfing hax was getting at was that Shizui and omika could have other Leaders as their version exclusives that we haven't seen yet. .-.

 

[Aurath8]

Why does the fact that Shizui has three Pokemon automatically mean that he's going to be encountered later in the games? Last time I checked, Bugsy had three Pokemon, yet he was the second Gym Leader in the Johto region. Gardenia also had three Pokemon, and she was only the second Sinnoh Gym Leader. Heck, Roxanne had three Pokemon in Emerald version, and she was just the first Gym Leader. I think it's possible that Shizui is the second Gym Leader.

I didn't mean later in the game, I meant later than Homika since in BW the first 2 gym leaders had 2 pokemon while the rest had 3. Hope that clears things up.

(despite Undella not having a cave, and there being no caves like that anywhere near Undella). If you're going to make huge assumptions, then you need to account for the facts that are confounding your assumption. First, why would Undella be accessible if ice is covering it? Second, why would Undella have a random cave, and a port/building situated on the water? It's slightly believable that a new Pacifidlog-style section of the city would be built onto Undella, but the presence of a cave doesn't make as much sense.

There is a cave on the mountain town on the East side of Unova along with a building and what appears to be a plane. The cave exit could easily be on Route 13/14, right next to Undella town.

I will admit that we are making a lot of assumptions but it's not much of a stretch when you consider that the only beach areas in the previous game were the aforementioned routes, Undella town, Route 17/18 and the tiny bit of coastline on Route 4.

 

[crystalzapdos]

No. All we know is that Homika appears early on she only has two Pokemon. Shizui appears to be later since he has 3 Pokemon and there are Ace trainers in his gym but we really have no idea. He is also seen in a hut near the sea which implies that he appears somewhere in Eastern Unova, such as Undella town as all the other town's near the sea in west Unova are harbours.

All the hut tells us is that he's probably not in the new port city. I don't know why everyone is thinking Shizui is in Undella Town. First of all, Undella looks nothing like the screenshots in the pictures. While it is possible that Undella gets a makeover, it doesn't seem like they would make over the town so much so that the geography is different, the Pokemon Center is moved, and the path to the next town is moved. It looks like a completely different city, one not revealed yet.

 

[Wasarym]

All the hut tells us is that he's probably not in the new port city. I don't know why everyone is thinking Shizui is in Undella Town. First of all, Undella looks nothing like the screenshots in the pictures. While it is possible that Undella gets a makeover, it doesn't seem like they would make over the town so much so that the geography is different, the Pokemon Center is moved, and the path to the next town is moved. It looks like a completely different city, one not revealed yet.

Cities on the coast can get hit pretty bad by natural disasters...

 

[crystalzapdos]

Cities on the coast can get hit pretty bad by natural disasters...

So in two years a hurricane hits, the geography changes Drastically in Undella but not South or West of it, a random cave appears, Undella gets a major upgrade in two years, despite it supposedly getting hit by a hurcaine and turning into nothing and on top of all of that gets a gym leader. Seems like a lot to happen in two years, especially the city getting rebuilt.