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Gym Leaders / Elite Four Discussion

Spirit of Darkness

Well-Known Member
They seriously need to level up their pokemon adn even re-new them, espacially the first two.
New evolutions can be included!!
 

Yoru Ryu

Zhampy
For the GL/Elite levels to be higher they'd need to put a LOT more trainers inbetween each city. Peronally, i'm fine with the low levels so long as they mix up the teams a bit. Jasmine and Clair were... bad. It always puzzled me why the early gens focused on dragons so much when they didn't really get any variety until RSE =/

As i said, i'm fine with the lower levels so longas the E4 power up post National 'dex. After all of Kanto the Johto Elite could go from the weakest of the series to the strongest XD
 

TurtwigFan1

burning it down
Here's my predictions for how the Johto League will have become stronger.

Gym Leaders

Falkner
-Level 8 Pidgey
-Level 11 Pidgeotto

That's the highest I can imagine he'd go.

Bugsy
-Level 11 Butterfree
-Level 11 Beedrill
-Level 13/14 Scyther

Whitney
-Level 19 Sentret/Furret
-Level 20 Clefairy
-Level 22 Miltank

Morty
-Level 24 Misdreavus
-Level 26 Haunter
-Level 29 Gengar

Chuck
-Level 30 Primeape
-Level 31 Machoke
-Level 33 Poliwrath

Jasmine
-Level 35 Magneton
-Level 37 Skarmory
-Level 39/40 Steelix

Pryce
-Level 40 Sneasel
-Level 41 Dewgong
-Level 43 Jynx
-Level 44 Piloswine

Clair
-Level 42 Dragonair
-Level 44 Dragonair
-Level 46 Dragonair
-Level 49 Kingdra

If they keep the old Johto Dex, then that's the team she'll probably have.

Elite Four

Will
-Level 49 Alakazam
-Level 50 Slowking
-Level 51 Jynx
-Level 52 Xatu
-Level 54 Espeon

Koga
-Level 53 Ariados
-Level 54 Venomoth
-Level 55 Weezing
-Level 56 Muk
-Level 57 Crobat

Bruno
-Level 56 Hitmonlee
-Level 56 Hitmonchan
-Level 56 Hitmontop
-Level 57 Primeape/Onix
-Level 58 Machamp

Karen
-Level 57 Murkrow/Honchkrow
-Level 58 Houndoom
-Level 59 Sneasel/Weavile
-Level 60 Gengar
-Level 61 Umbreon

Champion Lance
-Level 60 Gyarados
-Level 61 Aerodactyl
-Level 62 Dragonair/ite
-Level 63 Charizard
-Level 65 Dragonite
-Level 66 Dragonite

All in all, they all receive level-ups and Lance's last Dragonite would become on a par Cynthia's Garchomp.
 

~:Shadow:~

Well-Known Member
As stated, they are inevitably weak, and need to be strengthened. Better still is to make completely new teams, consisting of a mixture of Pokemon from Johto mainly and other Pokemon generations. The E4 have the same problem as well.
 

Pyrax

The Ghost of Tsushima
Falkner
Hoothoot - 11
Zubat - 11
Pidgeotto - 13

Bugsy
Ledian - 16
Pineco - 17
Scyther - 18

Whitney
Clefairy - 24
Snubbull - 24
Miltank - 26

Morty
Misdreavus - 28
Gastly -30
Haunter - 30
Gengar - 32

Chuck
Primeape - 33
Hitmontop - 34
Poliwrath - 37

Jasmine
Magneton - 39
Scizor - 40
Steelix - 41

Pryce
Seel - 39
Dewgong - 43
Sneasel - 42
Piowine - 44

Claire
Dragonair - 45
Gyarados - 46
Seadra - 46
Kingdra - 48

Higher levels and different Pokémon.
 
Last edited:

dynamo

Do not pass Go.
Everyone saying Falkner should have a Skarmory is a damn idiot. You might as well just take Chikorita out of the game .___.

Obviously much higher levels, Falkner obtains a Spearow, have Bugsy drop her Metapod and Kakuna, Jasmine to maybe have a Magneton? If, IF they decide to add some 3rd and 4th gen into the Johto dex, Pryce to have Mamoswine. He IS the 2nd to last gym leader in the region after all, so he should pose a bit of a threat. You should easily have a developed Fire or Fighting type by that point to take it down.
 

iAmDewgong

Not too shabby
I'd want both the E4-people and the GL's to keep their main pokes. Bugsy could leave her caccoons somewhere, as long as he keeps Schyter. Same goes for Chuck + Heracross - Poliwrath should still be his main.
 

BM14murph

Master Collector
They need to give each gym leader a johto pokemon for their main

Falkner = hoothoot
Bugsy = Ariados/Ledian
Whitney = Miltank
Morty = Misdreavous
Chuck = Hitmontop
Jasmine = Steelix
Pryce = Piloswine
Clair = Kingdra

Elite 4
Will = Xatu
Karen = Houndoom
Bruno = Hitmontop/Sudowwoodo - rock/fighting
Koga = Crobat

Lance can keep what he's got once he has a Kingdra der aswell
 
In my opinion, Johto's Gym Leaders were the weakest out of the Pokémon franchise, there is no doubt that Nintendo and Game Freak should raise their levels, and add Pokemon to the teams, here's what I think the teams should be like:

Faulkner
Pidgey Lvl. 12
Hoothoot Lvl. 11
Pidgeotto Lvl. 14

Bugsy
Metapod Lvl. 19
Kakuna Lvl. 19
Scyther Lvl. 21

Whitney
Clefairy Lvl. 24
Furret Lvl. 26
Miltank Lvl. 27

Morty
Gastly Lvl. 26
Misdreavus Lvl. 28
Haunter Lvl. 28
Gengar Lvl. 30

Chuck
Machoke Lvl. 34
Primeape Lvl. 33
Poliwrath Lvl. 36

Jasmine
Magnemite Lvl. 36
Skarmory Lvl. 38
Magneton Lvl. 39
Steelix Lvl. 42

Pryce
Dewgong Lvl. 39
Cloyster Lvl. 41
Piloswine Lvl. 44

Clair
Dragonair Lvl. 48
Gyarados Lvl. 47
Kingdra Lvl. 49
 

red2000

Liger Zero!!!
Weil Im really looking forward to a E4 upgrade, and they as in Pt and FR/LG should get stronger after you go to Kanto they should even add New Pokemon

Will:
-Xatu lv51
-Slowking lv52
-Girafarig lv52
-Alakazam lv53
-Gardevoir lv55

Koga:
-Ariados lv 54
-Seviper lv 56
-Muk Lv 58
-Crobat lv 57
-Forrtress lv 58 ( I never Understood this one, but Its nice to see somebody use it )

Bruno
-Hitmontop lv 61
-Steelix lv 60 (why give Jasmine one and not an E4 member?)
-Gallade lv 63
-HitmonChan lv 59
-Hitmonlee lv 59

Karen:
-Umbreon lv 60
-Honchkrow lv 59
-Houndoom lv 60
-Weavile lv 61
-Tyranitar lv 62


Lance:
-Gyarados lv 61
-Aerodactyl lv 64
-Tyranitar lv 65
-Charizard lv 63
-Flygon lv 65
-Dragonite lv 68

That Might be a bit Much at first but thats just an estimate
 

Nintendo-Wii

Well-Known Member
I'll just post the level ranges I want.

Falkner
1st battle.
10-16
2nd battle.(After E4)
40-45
3rd battle.(After battling the 8 Kanto gyms and E4.)
60-65



Bugsy
1st.16-20
2nd. 40-47
3rd. 62-66


Whitney
1st.20-26
2nd. 40-47
3rd. 60-66


Morty
1st. 24-29
2nd. 45-48
3rd. 60-68


Chuck
1st. 30-35
2nd. 48-53
3rd. 62-68


Jasmine
1st. 32-37
2nd. 50-52
3rd. 62-68


Pryce
1st. 40-44
2nd. 52-55
3rd. 64-69


Claire
1st. 47-52
2nd. 55-60
3rd. 66-72


I guess I'm going crazy with the # of times you can battle the gym leaders but whatever :p
 
I've just written up a list of each of the Pokemon owned by each of the Jhoto gym leaders, whether in GSC, Pokemon Stadium, anime, magna, TCG and so on. Most of the Pokemon in each list come from the Pokemon Stadium games though, seeing as each gym leader has about 10 Pokemon each in those games.

Falkner

Charizard
Delibird
Dodrio
Farfetch'd
Fearow
Gligar
Hoothoot
Noctowl
Pidgey
Pidgeotto
Pidgeot
Skarmory
Togetic
Zapdos

Bugsy

Beedrill
Butterfree
Caterpie
Heracross
Kakuna
Ledian
Metapod
Pinsir
Pupitar
Quagsire
Raticate
Scizor
Scyther
Spinarak
Sudowoodo
Unown
Weedle
Weepinbel
Yanma

Whitney

Clefable
Clefairy
Cleffa
Ditto
Dodrio
Donphan
Furret
Golduck
Gloom
Igglybuff
Lickitung
Magby
Miltank
Mr. Mine
Nidorina
Persian
Smeargle
Stantler
Tauros
Wigglytuff

Morty

Ariados
Exeggutor
Gastly
Gengar
Girafarig
Granbull
Haunter
Hypno
Lapras
Mantine
Marowak
Misdreavus
Murkrow
Ninetales
Noctowl
Sudowoodo

Chuck

Ampharos
Donphan
Granbull
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Hypno
Machoke
Poliwrath
Primeape
Rhydon
Sandslash
Tauros
Ursaring

Jasmine

Ampharos
Blastoise
Corsola
Electabuzz
Forretress
Jolteon
Magnemite
Magneton
Mantine
Raichu
Rapidash
Scizor
Skarmory
Slowbro
Stantler
Steelix
Togetic

Pryce

Articuno
Cloyster
Delibird
Dewgong
Donphan
Girafarig
Hitmontop
Jynx
Lapras
Piloswine
Quagsire
Seel
Shellder
Sneasel
Swinub
Tentacruel
Ursaring

Clair

Ampharos
Arcanine
Blastoise
Charizard
Dragonair
Dragonite
Dratini
Gyarados
Jynx
Kingdra
Lapras
Mantine
Nidoking
Politoed
Rhydon
 

dynamo

Do not pass Go.
Claire
Dragonair - 45
Dragonite - 46
Seadra - 46
Kingdra - 48

Eh, don't you think Dragonite should be left to Lance? He IS the trainer who represents that line of Pokemon, imo the final evolution should be left to him. Leave Claire to the seahorse line plus Dragonair and possibly Gyarados. I really do like all your other suggestions though =)
 

Torpoleon

Well-Known Member
Here are Pre National Dex battles meaning before you get the National Dex:
Gym Leaders:
Falkner:
Pidgey LV 10
Gust
Tackle
Sand Attack

Spearow LV 11
Fury Attack
Peck
Growl

Pidgeotto LV 14
Quick Attack
Gust
Tackle
Sand Attack

Bugsy:
Butterfree LV 20
Confusion
Posionpowder
Sleeppowder
Gust

Beedrill LV 22
Pursuit
Twineedle
Fury Attack
Hidden Power

Syther LV 25
Fury Attack
Wing Attack
False Swipe
Agility

I'm at a bit of a writer's block so I'll do everything later. The remaining gyms and E4 members will be in a seperate post.
 

Dragon trainer

Arise from the Ashes
First time:
Falkner: Between L13 - L16 - Skarmory/Pidgey or Pigetto L18/Hoothoot/Natu
Bugsy: Between L15 - L20 - Scyther/Beedrill/Pineco/Heracross/Shuckle
Whitney: Between L20 - L24 Miltank/Raticate/Chansey or Happiny/
Morty: Between L25 - L30Haunter/Misdreavus or Mismagius/Dusclops if available if not then Gengar
Chuck: Between L35 - L40 Hitmontop/Poliwrath/Heracross
Jasmine: Between L40 - L45 Steelix/Magnezone or ton/Foretress/
Pryce: Between L45 - L50 Piloswine/Dewgong/Jynx/
Clair: L50's - Dragonairre/Kingdra/Shellgon/Dragonite

Second time: After Nat.Dex: Levels are low 50's
Falkner: Togetic/Xatu/Pidgeot/Skarmory
Bugsy: Scizor/Foretress/Heracross/Schuckle/Pinsir/Anorith
Whitney: Miltank/Blissey/Raticate/Lickitung/Castform
Morty: Gengar/Mismagius/Dusclops/Sableye/Spritomb
Chuck: Poliwrath/Hitmontop/Heracross/Combusken/Makuhita
Jasmine: Steelix/Magnezone/Fortres/Beldum/Aron
Pryce: Mannoswine/Dewgong/Jynx/Sealo/
Clair: Dragonite/Kingdra/Salamence/Vibrava/Gabite

Third Time: After Nat.Dex: Levels are high 50's/low 60's
Falkner: Togekiss/Xatu/Pidgeot/Skarmory/Crobat/Honchrow or Murkrow/Starvaria
Bugsy: Scizor/Foretress/Heracross/Schuckle/Pinsir/Armadola/Mothim/Vesquen
Whitney: Miltank/Blissey/Raticate/Lickyliki/Castform/Lopunny/Porygon
Morty: Gengar/Mismagius/Dusknoir/Sableye/Spritomb/Driftblim
Chuck: Poliwrath/Heracross/Blaziken/Haryima/Rioul/Gallade
Jasmine: Steelix/Magnezone/Fortres/Metang/Aggron/Bronzong or Probopass or Bastidon
Pryce: Mannoswine/Dewgong/Jynx/Walrein/Weavile or Sneasel/Glaceon/Flosslass
Clair: Dragonite/Kingdra/Salamence/Flygon/Gachomp/Altaria

Fourth:
After Nat.Dex: Levels are low to mid 70's
Falkner: Togekiss/Xatu/Skarmory/Crobat/Honchrow/Staraptor
Bugsy: Scizor/Heracross/Pinsir/Armadola/Mothim/Vesquen
Whitney: Miltank/Blissey/Lickyliki/Castform/Lopunny/Porygon2
Morty: Gengar/Mismagius/Dusknoir/Sableye/Spritomb/Driftblim
Chuck: Poliwrath/Heracross/Blaziken/Haryima/Lucario/Gallade
Jasmine: Steelix/Magnezone/Metaross/Aggron/Bronzong or Probopass or Bastidon
Pryce: Mannoswine/Jynx/Walrein/Weavile/Glaceon/Flosslass
Clair: Dragonite/Kingdra/Salamence/Flygon/Gachomp/Altaria

Fifth:After Nat.Dex: Levels are high 70's to mid 80's
Falkner: Togekiss/Xatu/Skarmory/Crobat/Honchrow/Staraptor
Bugsy: Scizor/Heracross/Pinsir/Armadola/Mothim/Vesquen
Whitney: Miltank/Blissey/Lickyliki/Castform/Lopunny/PorygonZ
Morty: Gengar/Mismagius/Dusknoir/Sableye/Spritomb/Driftblim
Chuck: Poliwrath/Heracross/Blaziken/Haryima/Lucario/Gallade
Jasmine: Steelix/Magnezone/Metaross/Aggron/Bronzong or Probopass or Bastidon
Pryce: Mannoswine/Jynx/Walrein/Weavile/Glaceon/Flosslass
Clair: Dragonite/Kingdra/Salamence/Flygon/Gachomp/Altaria

EDIT: Tm's
1st Badge: Aerial Ace or Roost or Pluck
2nd Badge: Bullet Seed or Silver Wind or X-Scissor
3rd Badge: Return or Facade
4th Badge: Shadow Claw or Shadow Ball
5th Badge: Focus Punch or Brick Break or Drain Punch
6th Badge: Iron Tail or Steel Wing or Gyro Ball or Flash Cannon
7th Badge: Ice Beam or Hail or Avanche
8th Badge: Dragon Claw or Dragon Pulse

E4: Levels from 60's: First Time Pre Nat Dex
Will: Xatu/Jynx/Espeon/Exeggutor/Slowking
Koga: Arbok/Nidoking or Queen/Muk/Weezing/
Bruno: Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Machamp/Steelix
Karen: Honchrow/Umbreon/Houndoom/Tyranitar or Pupitar/Weavile
Lance: Dragonitex2/Aerodactyl/Kingdra/Dragonairre


E4: Levels from 70's: Ater Nat Dex
Will: Xatu/Jynx/Espeon/Exeggutor/Slowking/Gardevoir
Koga: Arbok/Nidoking or Queen/Muk/Weezing/Seviper/Stunktank
Bruno: Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Machamp/Steelix/Toxicroak/Medicham
Karen: Honchrow/Umbreon/Houndoom/Tyranitar/Weavile/Mightyena/Drapion
Lance: Dragonite/Aerodactyl/Kingdra/Dragonairre/Salamence/Flygon/

Levels continue to rise until 90's which is the fifth time.
 
Last edited:

Ultimate Glalie

Well-Known Member
Gym Leaders:

Falkner:

Lv 11 Spearow
Lv 12 Hoothoot
Lv 14 Pidgeotto

Bugsy:
Lv 16 Butterfree
Lv 16 Beedrill
Lv 19 Scyther

Whitney:

Lv 20 Jigglypuff
Lv 22 Clefairy
Lv 25 Miltank

Morty:

Lv 26 Haunter
Lv 28 Misdreavus
Lv 30 Gengar

Chuck:

Lv 31 Machoke
Lv 32 Primeape
Lv 32 Hitmonlee
Lv 34 Poliwrath

Jasmine:

Lv 35 Magneton
Lv 36 Skarmory
Lv 38 Steelix

Pryce:

Lv 39 Dewgong
Lv 40 Lapras
Lv 40 Cloyster
Lv 42 Piloswine

Clair:

Lv 43 Dratini
Lv 45 Dragonair
Lv 46 Seadra
Lv 48 Kingdra

Post E4/National Dex:

Falkner:

Lv 66 Pelipper
Lv 68 Tropius
Lv 68 Fearow
Lv 69 Swellow
Lv 70 Pidgeot

Bugsy:

Lv 66 Vespiquen
Lv 67 Mothim
Lv 69 Butterfree
Lv 69 Beedrill
Lv 70 Scizor

Whitney:

Lv 67 Bibarel
Lv 67 Girafarig
Lv 68 Wigglytuff
Lv 69 Clefable
Lv 70 Miltank

Morty:

Lv 67 Dusknoir
Lv 68 Mismagius
Lv 69 Banette
Lv 69 Sableye
Lv 70 Gengar

Chuck:

Lv 67 Hariyama
Lv 69 Lucario
Lv 69 Hitmonlee
Lv 69 Primeape
Lv 70 Poliwrath

Jasmine:

Lv 68 Magnezone
Lv 68 Bastiodon
Lv 69 Metagross
Lv 70 Mawile
Lv 70 Steelix

Pryce:

Lv 69 Dewgong
Lv 69 Walrein
Lv 69 Abomasnow
Lv 70 Lapras
Lv 70 Mamoswine

Clair:

Lv 70 Salamence
Lv 70 Garchomp
Lv 70 Dragonite
Lv 70 Altaria
Lv 70 Kingdra

Elite Four:

Will:

Lv 52 Xatu
Lv 54 Alakazam
Lv 55 Slowbro
Lv 55 Exeggutor
Lv 58 Hypno

Koga:

Lv 56 Ariados
Lv 58 Muk
Lv 58 Weezing
Lv 59 Tentacruel
Lv 61 Crobat

Bruno:

Lv 60 Hitmonlee
Lv 60 Hitmonchan
Lv 61 Hitmontop
Lv 62 Primeape
Lv 64 Machamp

Karen:

Lv 63 Gengar
Lv 64 Umbreon
Lv 64 Murkrow
Lv 65 Vileplume
Lv 67 Houndoom

Lance:

Lv 66 Gyarados
Lv 68 Charizard
Lv 69 Aerodactyl
Lv 69 Kingdra
Lv 69 Tyranitar
Lv 70 Dragonite

Kanto Gym Leaders (Assuming you now have the National Dex):

Brock:

Lv 62 Onix
Lv 63 Rhyperior
Lv 64 Rampardos
Lv 64 Cradily
Lv 65 Golem

Misty:

Lv 62 Mantine
Lv 63 Lanturn
Lv 64 Milotic
Lv 64 Lumineon
Lv 65 Starmie

Lt Surge:

Lv 64 Electrode
Lv 64 Electivire
Lv 65 Luxray
Lv 66 Jolteon
Lv 68 Raichu

Erika:

Lv 64 Bellossom
Lv 65 Tangrowth
Lv 65 Torterra
Lv 67 Cherrim
Lv 68 Victreebel

Janine:

Lv 65 Seviper
Lv 67 Skuntank
Lv 67 Weezing
Lv 68 Swalot
Lv 69 Roserade

Sabrina:

Lv 66 Espeon
Lv 67 Bronzong
Lv 67 Medicham
Lv 69 Mr Mime
Lv 70 Alakazam

Blaine:

Lv 68 Rapidash
Lv 68 Infernape
Lv 70 Camerupt
Lv 71 Magcargo
Lv 72 Magmortar

Blue:

Lv 71 Gallade
Lv 72 Garchomp
Lv 72 Froslass
Lv 73 Metagross
Lv 74 Staraptor
Lv 75 Blastoise

And lastly, Red:

Lv 90 Pikachu
Lv 85 Heracross
Lv 86 Torkoal
Lv 88 Glalie
Lv 89 Charizard
Lv 89 Sceptile

That's what all the Gym Leaders and E4 members should have, IMO. I'm still updating this.
 
Last edited:

Harkett

whatisthisidonteven
They aren't going to change the most important aspects of the game (epic Gym/Elite Four battles) that much! And rest assured that they will not have any Sinnoh Pokemon, at least pre-National Dex.
 

Torpoleon

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking tha for the first time you battle the Gym Leaders and E4, their Pokemon would be native to Kanto and Johto only as it is not the National Dex yet.
 
They aren't going to change the most important aspects of the game (epic Gym/Elite Four battles) that much! And rest assured that they will not have any Sinnoh Pokemon, at least pre-National Dex.

I'm not so sure that they won't. You might be right, but they did change Giovanni's team, and they changed the levels of the E4 for FRLG. Not to mention, these games are in urgent need of a change in rosters, because the game is pathetically easy. RBY was a decent-ish difficulty (infact, FRLG made the game easier, overall, if we discount the fact that the gym leaders in FRLG had AI), but GSC wasn't. In order for me to rate the game as highly as possible, the game NEEDS to be harder. I think others agree.

Of course, there are other ways to make the game harder though, such as having less trainers, so our Pokemon level up much less, and will be weaker in comparison to the gym teams, or decreasing the levels of wild Pokemon, so, again, our Pokemon will be weaker throughout the game, making it harder.

Game Freak usually make intelligent decisions, and I hope they will again.
 
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