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Gym Leaders / Elite Four Discussion

H3R0

LordHotstuff
The Elite 4 just mainly gets upped, though Lance gains a Ttar, Karen a Honchkrow, and Bruno a Steelix. Surge loses an Electrode for a Jolteon and gains an Electivire. Sabrina gains a Slowbro. Misty, Erika, and Janine are upped, though Erika gets Tangrowth. Brock gets a Nosepass to replace the Onix, though he could get a Bastiodon or Sudowoodo-or maybe he could get fossil pokemon from the 3rd gen. Blaine gets an Infernape. Blue gets a up. Red becomes close to mastered.

Thats The Only Thing That Got Me. There's NO WAY Gamefreak Will Replace Brock's Onix. That's His Like Main Pokemon. Though It Could Evolve Into Steelix Just Like In The Anime.
 

zlxq3000

Master Collector
People need to stop suggesting non-Johto pokemon for the Gym Leaders. I can understand why you'd want that, but it wouldn't make any sense. Post-Nat. Dex, perhaps, but not the first run through.
 

H3R0

LordHotstuff
^^ Exactly.
FireRed And LeafGreen Gymleaders Didnt Get New Pokemon. So Why SS HG?
 

Mr. E Goods

Gone for good
For the Elete 4 I think they should have the following:
Will
Exeggutor Lv54
Jynx Lv54
Claydol Lv55
Xatu Lv55
Slowking Lv56

Koga
Crobat Lv55
Swalot Lv56
Roserade Lv56
Weezing Lv57
Muk Lv58

Bruno
Primape Lv57
Hitmontop Lv58
Lucario Lv58
Blaziken Lv59
MAchamp Lv59

Karen
Absol Lv58
Weavile Lv59
Honchkrow Lv59
Houndoom Lv60
Umbreon Lv61

Lance
Flygon Lv60
Gyarados Lv60
Dragonite Lv61
Kingdra Lv62
Salamence Lv63
Dragonite Lv64
 

Golde

Always Searching~
I hope nothing is changed except the levels. Even if there's 16 gyms (unlikely), we still need a power-up.

I honestly don't know why you people want 3rd and 4th gen pokemon in there. They all sucked. 2nd Gen was the best.
 

SuperSonic

Well-Known Member
I think Falkner will have a tailow
 

Mr. E Goods

Gone for good
I hope nothing is changed except the levels. Even if there's 16 gyms (unlikely), we still need a power-up.

I honestly don't know why you people want 3rd and 4th gen pokemon in there. They all sucked. 2nd Gen was the best.

Because there will be more variety in pokemon.
 

Larry

Well-Known Member
I definetly want to see what Lance will be holding....Wonder if he'll have Garchomp or Salamence
 

League

Master Abra Catcher
In the manga he has a Ttar. If he needs a filler to replace one D-nite, it should be that, as it is dragon-like alongside his other pokemon. Maybe Brock could keep the Onix, but with at a much higher than expected level to make up for it's stats, though the defense is quite adequate really. That being noted, the changes are once more at bottom.

Changes at bottom.

Original Falkner (Mud-Slap**Tutor Move currently): Pidgey L7/ Pidgeotto L9
Original Bugsy (Fury Cutter**): Metapod L14/ Kakuna L14/ Scyther L16
Original Whitney (Attract*TM currently): Clefairy L18/ Miltank L20
Original Morty (Shadow Ball*): Gastly L21/ Haunter L21/ Gengar L25/ Haunter L23
Original Chuck (Dynamic Punch): Primeape L27/ Poliwrath L30
Original Jasmine (Iron Tail*): Magnemite L30/ Magnemite L30/ Steelix L35
Original Pryce (Icy Wind**): Seel L27/ Dewgong L29/ Piloswine L31
Original Claire (Dragonbreath): Dragonair L37/ Dragonair L37/ Dragonair L37/ Kingdra L 40

Original Will: Xatu L40/ Jinx L41/ Exxegutor L41/ Slowbro L41/ Xatu L42
Original Koga: Ariados L40/ Venomoth L41/ Forrtress L43/ Muk L42/ Crobat L44
Original Bruno: Hitmontop L42/ Onix L43/ Hitmonchan L42/ Hitmonlee L42/ Machamp L46
Original Karen: Umbreon L42/ Vileplume L42/ Murkrow L44/ Gengar L45/ Houndoom L47
Original Lance: Gyarados L44/ Dragonite L47/ Dragonite L47/ Aerodactyl L46/ Charizard L46/ Dragonite L50

Original Lt. Surge: Raichu L44/ Electrode L40/ Magneton L40/ Electrode L40/ Electabuzz L46
Original Sabrina: Espeon L46/ Mr. Mime L46/ Alakazam L48
Original Misty: Golduck L42/ Quagsire L42/ Lapras L44/ Starmie L47
Original Erika (Giga Drain*): Tangela L42/ Jumpluff L41/ Victreebell L46/ Bellossom L46
Original Janine (Toxic*): Crobat L36/ Weezing L36/ Weezing L36/ Ariados L33/ Venomoth L39
Original Brock: Graveler L41/ Rhyhorn L41/ Omastar L42/ Onix L44/ Kabutops L42
Original Blaine: Magcargo L45/ Magmar L45/ Rapidash L50
Original Blue: Pidgeot L56/ Alakazam L54/ Rhydon L56/ Gyarados L58/ Exeggutor L58/ Arcanine L58

Original Red: Pikachu L81/ Espeon L73/ Snorlax L75/ Venusaur L77/ Charizard L77/ Blastoise L77

New Falkner: Pidgey L8/ Pidgeotto L10/ Delibird L9 (Johto-unique pokemon, Hustle + Aerial Ace)
New Bugsy: Butterfree L15/ Beedrill L15/ Scyther L17
New Whitney: Clefairy L19/ Miltank L22/ Clefable L21?
New Morty: Haunter L23/ Haunter L24/ Gengar L25/ Misdreavus L25
New Chuck: Primeape L29/ Machoke L30/ Poliwrath L32
New Jasmine: Magneton L34/ Magneton L34/ Steelix L38/ Skarmory L37
New Pryce: Dewgong L40/ Dewgong L40/ Mamoswine L43/ Glaceon L42
New Claire: Dragonair L45/ Dragonair L45/ Dragonair L47/ Kingdra L48

New Will: Xatu L54/ Jinx L55/ Exeggutor L55/ Slowbro L56/ Xatu L56
New Koga: Ariados L55/ Venomoth L57/ Forretress L57/ Muk L57/ Crobat L58
New Bruno: Hitmontop L56/ Steelix L58/ Hitmonchan L56/ Hitmonlee L56/ Machamp L60
New Karen: Umbreon L57/ Vileplume L57/ Honchkrow L59/ Gengar L59/ Houndoom L62
New Lance: Gyarados L61/ Dragonite L64/ Aerodactyl L63/ Charizard L63/ Tyranitar L64/ Dragonite L67

Differences in Johto and Elite 4 start from ~1 and end around ~17.

New Lt. Surge: Raichu L56/ Electrode L54/ Magnezone L54/ Jolteon L54/ Electivire L59
New Sabrina: Espeon L59/ Mr. Mime L59/ Alakazam L62/ Slowbro L60
New Misty: Golduck L56/ Quagsire L56/ Lapras L58/ Starmie L60
New Erika: Tangrowth L57/ Jumpluff L56/ Victreebell L61/ Bellossom L61
New Janine: Crobat L56/ Weezing L55/ Weezing L55/ Ariados L52/ Venomoth L58
New Brock: Golem L56/ Rhyperior L56/ Omastar L58/ Kabutops L58/ Onix L70/ Sudowoodo L59
New Blaine: Magcarco L59/ Magmortar L63/ Rapidash L65/ Infernape L63
New Blue: Pidgeot L70/ Alakazam L68/ Rhyperior L70/ Gyarados L73/ Exeggutor L73/ Arcanine L73

New Red: Pikachu L100/ Espeon L90/ Snorlax L94/ Venusaur L97/ Charizard L97/ Blastoise L97

Falkner should not get a Hoot-hoot: you'd probably have seen a million by then-he gets a Hustle/Aerial Ace Delibird were I in charge. Bugsy should just get the pod evos and Scyther slightly upped. Whitney gains a Clefable. Morty's Gastly should become a Misdreavus. Chuck gains a Machoke. Jasmine gets one Magnemite evo, the other becomes Skarmory. Pryce gets two Dewgong, a Mamoswine, and a Glaceon. Claire just gets upped.

The Elite 4 just mainly gets upped, though Lance gains a Ttar, Karen a Honchkrow, and Bruno a Steelix. Surge loses an Electrode for a Jolteon and gains an Electivire. Sabrina gains a Slowbro. Misty, Erika, and Janine are upped, though Erika gets Tangrowth. Brock gains a Sudowoodo. Blaine gets an Infernape. Blue gets a up. Red becomes close to mastered.
 
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loonatic

Smart and sneaky
We are indeed in need of a challenge this time around, as well as minor gym leader roster changes:

#1 Falkner - Reward: TM40 - Aerial Ace
;016; Pidgey - 12
;084; Doduo - 12
;163; Hoothoot - 14​
-
#2 Bugsy - Reward: TM62 - Silver Wind
;165; Ledyba - 19
;167; Spinarak - 19
;123; Scyther - 22​
-
#3 Whitney - Reward: TM45 - Attract/TM78 - Captivate
;039; Jigglypuff - 24
;035; Clefairy - 24
;241; Miltank - 26​
-
#4 Morty - Reward: TM65 - Shadow Claw
;093; Haunter - 28
;429; Mismagius - 29
;094; Gengar - 32​
-
#5 Chuck - Reward: TM08 - Bulk Up
;057; Primeape - 33
;062; Poliwrath - 34
;237; Hitmontop - 37​
-
#6 Jasmine - Reward: TM91 - Flash Cannon
;082; Magneton - 37
;205; Foretress - 38
;208; Steelix - 41​
-
#7 Pryce - Reward: TM72 - Avalanche
;087; Dewgong - 40
;225; Delibird - 40
;215; Sneasel - 42
;221; Piloswine - 44​
-
#8 Clair - Reward: TM59 - Dragon Pulse
;148; Dragonair - 46
;130; Gyarados - 46
;148; Dragonair - 48
;230; Kingdra - 50​
 
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League

Master Abra Catcher
Maybe the gym leaders could be tutors, to solve tm problems. Anyway, I'm thinking that if the PLatinum grass leader can get a Roserade, Morty can get a Mismagius.
 

Orphee

no need to be upset
for Johto leaders:
Falkner: Spearow, Hoothoot, Pidgeotto
Bugsy: Pineco/Ledian, Yanma/Ariados, Scyther
Whitney: Clefairy, Snubull, Miltank
Morty: Haunter, Misdreavus, Gengar
Chuck: Machoke, Primeape, Poliwrath
Jasmine: Magneton, Skarmory, Steelix
Pryce: Lapras/Delibird, Dewgong, Sneasel, Piloswine
Clair: Dragonair, Gyarados Kingdra


or well, I hope you can battle them again just like emerald
 

Chaos Rush

Well-Known Member
Just because everybody else is doing it :p.

Falkner:
Lv12 Murkrow
Lv13 Hoothoot
Lv15 Skarmory

Bugsy:
Lv18 Butterfree (Ditch the coccoons!)
Lv18 Beedrill (Ditch the coccoons!)
Lv21 Scizor

Whitney:
Lv24 Girafarig
Lv25 Dunsparce
Lv26 Miltank

Morty:
Lv30 Spiritomb (If they include it in the Johto Dex)
Lv29 Mismagius
Lv32 Gengar

Chuck:
Lv34 Heracross
Lv36 Machamp
Lv36 Primeape
Lv38 Poliwrath

Jasmine:
Lv36 Forretress
Lv34 Magnezone
Lv39 Steelix

Pryce:
Lv41 Glaceon
Lv43 Weavile
Lv43 Jynx
Lv45 Mamoswine

Clair:
Lv47 Dragonair
Lv48 Altaria (Hopefully it's in the Johto Dex)
Lv48 Gyarados
Lv50 Kingdra
 

arceus03

Well-Known Member
1. Falkner needs to get a Skarmory

I can see the others happening (particularly Jasmine with Bronzong) but this, no. IDK why, but Chikorita users will have a hard time against this one. Plus I don't think there's an early Fire type before Falkner. If so, Cyndaquil would be the most popular again.


Morty could use some Banette/Dusclops. Having Mismagius is okay, but that would be the same as Fantina. Whitney could also be raising Munchlax. No Slaking, though, it'll match Norman.

Sabrina should really have Unown. XD

And Clair. Clair is gonna have a fun time raising Garchomp, or Salamence.

People need to stop suggesting non-Johto pokemon for the Gym Leaders. I can understand why you'd want that, but it wouldn't make any sense. Post-Nat. Dex, perhaps, but not the first run through.

I hope nothing is changed except the levels. Even if there's 16 gyms (unlikely), we still need a power-up.

I honestly don't know why you people want 3rd and 4th gen pokemon in there. They all sucked. 2nd Gen was the best.

IMHO.
Granted, most players would prefer the original team for the gymleaders, but the addition of the new (and much stronger) Pokemon in the 3rd and 4th Generation overshadows the 2nd Gen Pokemon. What? Stop giving me dirty looks. *shudder* Like, compare a Steelix and a Bronzong. It's obvious which you'd choose, given the option. Seriously you'd think Falkner'd want to use Pidgeotto if he can get Staravia?

Still. Just mah humble opinion.

But then. The new Pokemon weren't in Johto PokeDex, so I assume the leaders will keep their original Pokemon....... *shot*
 
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I'm pretty sure they'll keep the rosters the same as the original games, like they did with the first set of remakes.
 

thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
I hope nothing is changed except the levels. Even if there's 16 gyms (unlikely), we still need a power-up.

I honestly don't know why you people want 3rd and 4th gen pokemon in there. They all sucked. 2nd Gen was the best.

Oh yes, Kanto was so much better. I miss the good old days when some designs were simply a giant pokeball with eyeballs or a regular white sealion with a horn stapled on. And don't forget evolution, aparently adding a few extra heads on a pokemon (Diglett, Doduo, Koffing, Magnemite) was the same as changing the design.

Anyway:

Falkner: Hoothoot, Wingull, Noctowl
Bugsy: Spinarak, Ledyba, Scissor
Whitney: Clefairy, Chansey, Miltank
Morty: Misdreavus,Dusclops, Gengar
Chuck: Machoke,Tyrouge, Poliwrath
Jasmine: Steelix,Skarmory Magnezone
Pryce: Dewgong, Sneasle, Mamoswine
Claire: Dragonair,Seadra, Kindra
Will: Xatu, Jynx, Alazakam, Girafarig, Slowking
Koga: Ariados, Victrebell, Muk, Venomoth, Crobat
Bruno: Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Hitmontop,Heracross, Machamp
Karen: Umbreon, Houndoom, Weavile, Honchkrow, Tyranitar
Lance: Gyarados, Kingdra, Aerodactyl, Altaria, Dragonite
 

calze6

Reclaiming da ladder
When is the game due? Also, pryce has lower level pokemon than the previous gym leader!
 
The Gym Leader's Pokemon would obviously be influenced by what is available in the Johto-dex. With that in mind, and with minimal guess-work as to which pokemon from 3rd and 4th generations might make it in, here's my guess for the Gym Leader and E4 teams. And yes, I also agree that the levels do need to be increased. I also believe there should be at least one or two more towns/grinding locations available between the events of the sixth gym and the E4. That's just me though.

-Falkner-
TM: Aerial Ace or Roost
-Level 8 Skarmory
-Level 10 Natu
-Level 14 Hoothoot

Note: If this is to work, considering the short distance between the beginning of the game and the first gym, wild encounters should be increased by 2-3 levels one or two routes in order to provide enough experience. Remember, Geodude and Phanpy are available for counters before facing Falkner as of this point, at least in Crystal. Skarmory might require Mareep becoming available earlier, or Cyndaquil to be your chosen starter without massive grinding or attrition. Also, I gave in on the idea that most of the Johto leaders should have Johto pokemon. Fortunately, this works for Falkner.

-Bugsy-
TM: U-turn
-Level 11 Spinarak
-Level 13 Yanma
-Level 15 Heracross
-Level 18 Scyther

Note: Going off the original games, there's not quite enough variation in pokemon between the first two gyms to allow for a huge advantage here (Geodude/Graveler, Cyndaquil/Quilava, and a Spearow/Pidgeotto). However, I'd say it's still definitely possible with enough grinding and some trades.

-Whitney-
TM: Attract or Return
-Level 18 Teddiursa
-Level 20 Eevee
-Level 22 Clefable
-Level 24 Miltank

Note: Easily manageable, if you scout ahead to get a Machop (which was available via trade at about the time you get to Goldenrod City anyway). Yes, I evolved the Clefairy.

-Morty-
TM: Shadow Ball (not much choice, here)
-Level 23 Haunter
-Level 25 Misdreavous
-Level 28 Gengar
-Level 30 Mismagius

Note: This should be fairly challenging, though not overwhelming, I'd think. Psychics will only get you so far, so Dark-attacks will be required to seal the deal at this point. If newer pokemon are available, I would replace Haunter with Shuppet or Duskull.

-Chuck-
TM: Bulk Up and/or Brick Break
-Level 30 Machamp (No Guard)
-Level 32 Heracross
-Level 33 Poliwrath
-Level 35 Hitmontop

Note: You should have access to enough grass and electric-type attacks by now to be able to take on Poliwrath, not to mention Flying techniques. Especially if Aerial Ace was given by Falkner or is available sometime before now.

-Jasmine-
TM: Iron Tail or Gyro Ball
-Level 34 Scizor
-Level 36 Magneton
-Level 38 Forretress
-Level 41 Steelix

Note: With fire-type availability, this should be a cinch. If Lucario was available, I'd replace Forretress with one. Even if Magnezone is somehow available, I would not replace the Magneton in this line-up with one.

-Pryce-
TM: Avalanche
-Level 36 Dewgong
-Level 39 Piloswine
-Level 42 Weavile
-Level 44 Mamoswine

Note: Again, with Fire, Steel, and Fighting types this should be simple.

-Clair-
TM: Dragon Pulse
-Level 42 Gyarados
-Level 44 Seadra
-Level 46 Dragonair
-Level 50 Kingdra

Note: If I was to include another Dragon-type from newer games, I'd replace Seadra with Flygon and throw in a Level 45 Altaria to start with. I would suggest Milotic as well, but honestly, Clair never struck me as a Coordinator-type.

In my opinion, and considering the sheer lack of original 2nd Gen pokemon (and how a fair number of them are not very good pokemon, namely the Sentrets and Stantler kinda pokemon), I think keeping a fair number of Kanto pokemon in the gym leader's teams is pretty much required. I didn't add any 'new' pokemon other than generational evolutions (such as Mamoswine, Weavile, Mismagius, etc) into consideration. I did jump their levels up quite a bit, however, compared to what they used to be. Considering that most players at least understand type advantages these days, they'd have to exploit them in order to take out the pokemon at these levels (without level grinding and/or breeding by around the third gym).

I do realize that there's a big issue with the number of available trainers to battle and wild pokemon to grind levels on, so there are a few options that present themselves: grinding in the wild and waiting for Match Calls as well.

Honestly, I think that this could be done. There's an average of 4-6 levels between the max levels of each gym leader, and the levels aren't that much higher except at the beginning. As mentioned above, increasing the levels of pokemon found on Route 46 by a few levels should do the trick.

For the E4 and Kanto teams... well, enough has been said on those, I think. And, it's late.

That's my 2-cents. Sorry, I don't have any change for ya right now.
 

Mr. E Goods

Gone for good
Once you complete the national dex hopefully you can re-verse the gym leader like in emerald and platinum. If so id like these pokemon to be in their roster:

Falkner
Noctowl Lv64
Honchkrow Lv65
Pidgeot Lv66
Gliscor Lv68

Bugsy
Butterfree Lv64
Yanmega Lv65
Scizor Lv66
Vespiquen Lv66
Heracross Lv68

Whitney
Wigglytuff Lv64
Loppuny Lv65
Blissy Lv66
Togekiss Lv66
Miltank Lv68

Morty
Sableye Lv64
Mismagius Lv65
Dusknoir Lv66
Spiritomb Lv66
Gengar Lv68

Chuck
Poliwrath Lv64
Toxicroak Lv65
Hitmonlee Lv66
Hitmonchan Lv66
Gallade Lv 68

Jasmine
Wormadan (steel) Lv64
Steelix Lv65
Forretress Lv66
Metagross Lv66
Magnezone Lv68

Pryce
Glalie Lv64
Walrein Lv65
Jynx Lv66
Dewgong Lv66
Mamoswine Lv68

Clair
Kingdra Lv64
Garchomp Lv65
Altaria Lv66
Salamence Lv66
Dragonite Lv68
 

thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
We will get to see the Kanto gym leaders again too. Can't forget that.

At this point in the game the player will probably have a national dex meaning all 493 pokemon will be at their disposal. The gym leaders can have a wide variety of pokemon.
 
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