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Gym Leaders / Elite Four Discussion

  • Thread starter Deleted member 11515
  • Start date

Giratina93

King of the Koopas
Clair's rematch team needs to be a bit more origonal. I'm rather dissapointed that her team's just a cop of Lance's team.

Here's an ideal Clair Rematch team that SHOULDF have been done.

Clair
lv. 54 Flygon
lv. 56 Kingdra
lv. 56 Gyarados
lv. 57 Salamance
lv. 55 Feraligator
lv. 58 Dragonite

Now that would have been better for Clair to have...
 

R_N

Well-Known Member
So, thanks to yaminokame, here's what Green says in his gym, prebattle and after:
Oh, you came
I got a little nervous
back at Cinnabar
but now I feel like
battling all out!
... ... ...
What's that, you beat all of the Johto gyms?
hahaha so that's all Johto's got! (I'm not sure the best way to translate this, but he's saying this in the sense that Johto Gym Leaders are weak)
Oh well
I'll just have to battle you
to figure out if you
actually are any good or not!
-----------------------------------
So that's the best
Johto has......
I can't believe it!
I lost to
someone like this!!
...... ...... ......
...... Eh, Oh well
Here, this is the
Viridian City badge!

And here's what he says in GSC
Yo! Finally got here, huh? I wasn't in the mood at Cinnabar, but now I'm ready to battle you. ... You're telling me you conquered all the Gyms in Johto? Heh! Johto's Gyms must be pretty pathetic then. Hey, don't worry about it. I'll know if you are good or not by battling you right now. Ready, Johto Champ?

What? How the heck did I lose to you? ... Tch, all right... Here, take this -- it's Earth Badge.

... All right, I was wrong. You're the real deal. You are a good Trainer. But I'm going to beat you someday. Don't you forget it!

It's similar, but he's clearly less of an a-hole overall. Of course, there is a chance that the JP GSC dialog was less douchey but somehow I doubt it.
 

Venomfrog

Perpetual Observer
Green does seem to have mellowed. Maybe swapping the Alakazam for a Machamp made him less of a "head" case, given that Alakazam's IQ is astronomical and Machamp's brain is probably average. :p

Personally I liked the addition of gym trainers to Green's gym and to that of Blaine. Seafoam Gym looks uncannily like an eerie volcano.

Now for some discussion on AI and difficulty based on my recent visits to YouTube:

An annexe to my earlier note on item strategies: Misty's Starmie has a Colbur Berry, which halves super effective Dark damage. I interpret from this that the developers predicted (probably accurately) that a good deal of players would try to Sucker Punch the starfish into the ground. For example, a player confident that his Honchkrow will annhilate Misty's signature sees the starfish survive and Thunderbolt the bird. I take this as another piece of evidence that the gym leaders were handled well in terms of strategy.

Of course, there is plenty of evidence that the gym leaders are still not the best. Case in point:

1. Player from YouTube sends out Lv. 55 Arcanine against Morty's Lv. 57 Gengar (the Focus Blast one).
2. Arcanine takes over half from Focus Blast.
3. Crunch does not KO Gengar, but lowers its Defense.
4. Morty uses a Full Restore on Gengar.
5. Due to the lowered Defense, Gengar falls from the second Crunch.

Any truly intelligent trainer would have Shadow Balled the weakened Arcanine in Step 4. To be honest, as seen on almost every video, Morty is very smart in HGSS, using Shadow Ball almost always when he should. In the very same battle as the Arcanine confrontation, Morty defeated a Dragonite and Destiny Bonded an Electivire with his other Gengar. Yet this obvious Crunch case tricked the AI. In my opinion, the gym leader reliance on healing items is still their greatest weakness.

At least Gengar's performance proves one thing: HGSS contains some tough battles. For members with battle experience or even viewing experience, what is your opinion on gym leader AI in HGSS compared to past games, and how do you think it could be improved?
 

Dragonite19

Dragonite Fan
^ Morty beat a Dragonite? Dang. That really does prove the rematches are tough. Man, I still can't believe a Dragonite got K.O.ed. That is sad.:(
 

R_N

Well-Known Member
Not...really?
Dragonites are KOd all the time.
There is probably a Dragonite being KOd right now
 

Chaos Rush

Well-Known Member
You know, it is possible that the translators of the original G/S/C changed it up a little, so for all we know Green might say the exact same thing he did in the Japanese G/S/C games.
 

Venomfrog

Perpetual Observer
^ Morty beat a Dragonite? Dang. That really does prove the rematches are tough. Man, I still can't believe a Dragonite got K.O.ed. That is sad.:(

Shadow Ball + Thunderbolt. The Gengar survived Fly. Seriously, Morty must have EV trained that phantom.
 

R_N

Well-Known Member
You know, it is possible that the translators of the original G/S/C changed it up a little, so for all we know Green might say the exact same thing he did in the Japanese G/S/C games.
Of course, there's no way to know for certain unless someone plays through the jp version of GSC and translates his dialog.
Shadow Ball + Thunderbolt. The Gengar survived Fly. Seriously, Morty must have EV trained that phantom.

Shadow Ball does neutral damage, Thunderbolt is super effective. Gengar have high special attack.
Dragonite was gonna go down.
 

Chimchar15

Well-Known Member
Of course, there's no way to know for certain unless someone plays through the jp version of GSC and translates his dialog.


Shadow Ball does neutral damage, Thunderbolt is super effective. Gengar have high special attack.
Dragonite was gonna go down.

Umm actually against Dragonite Thunderbolt also does neutral damage. You know since he's part Dragon which is resistant to Electric-type attacks and part Flying-type which is weak to Electric-type attacks.
 

R_N

Well-Known Member
Umm actually against Dragonite Thunderbolt also does neutral damage. You know since he's part Dragon which is resistant to Electric-type attacks and part Flying-type which is weak to Electric-type attacks.

Ah, silly me. I was trying to remember what type flying made it weak too (rock) and electric was the first to come to mind.

Well still, a dead dragonite is not surprising.
 

Venomfrog

Perpetual Observer
Against Morty's Gengar, only two levels above the Dragonite, though, it is still an indicator. Dragonite has good enough Special Defense and HP that it should be able to survive two Shadow Balls coming from a mediocrely trained Gengar.

I did the calculations of Shadow Ball from Gengar vs. Dragonite at level 100 assuming completely neutral IVs, EVs and natures, and determined from the damage formula that Shadow Ball would do a maximum 46% to Dragonite and Thunderbolt would do up to 36%. These figures would be roughly the same in the 50s. In the battle Shadow Ball did 99/160 = 62% damage. Either Gengar has a +Sp.Atk. nature or Dragonite has a -Sp.Def. nature, and if GameFreak is going to go as far as giving Chuck's Breloom a SubPunch Toxic Orb set, then I am assuming they would give Gengar a +Sp.Atk. nature.

To support the +Sp.Atk. theory, I noticed that the other Gengar did less with its special attacks to Arcanine than the Thunderbolter did to Dragonite, which assuming Dragonite is -Sp.Def. and Arcanine is +Sp.Def. (which would result in roughly equal capacity in taking special attacks), still results in the conclusion that Morty's second Gengar is stronger at attacking than the first, which implies the choosing of natures by GameFreak. The second Gengar must have purposely been given a +Sp.Atk. nature.

Of course, I could be horribly off, but I am confident that something was tampered which resulted in a tougher battle than, say, against Fantina's Gengar.
 

Competitive5910

Codename:ArseusEater
So, thanks to yaminokame, here's what Green says in his gym, prebattle and after:


And here's what he says in GSC


It's similar, but he's clearly less of an a-hole overall. Of course, there is a chance that the JP GSC dialog was less douchey but somehow I doubt it.

I like the fact that he finally realized that he isn't the best. After losing to red he's lost half of his douchiness

Rematch teams are nice. Lance's team is kickbutt. I love how he's got every gen pseudo dragon in there, and no weaklings either. Cynthia's garchomp was a pushover. This dude here, lance, uses outrage instead of the common miss and hit dragon rush.
 

R_N

Well-Known Member
I like the fact that he finally realized that he isn't the best. After losing to red he's lost half of his douchiness

Rematch teams are nice. Lance's team is kickbutt. I love how he's got every gen pseudo dragon in there, and no weaklings either. Cynthia's garchomp was a pushover. This dude here, lance, uses outrage instead of the common miss and hit dragon rush.

Garchomp also couldn't get Outrage until Platinum.
It was probably seen as overkill your first time through then, too.


Also re: "tampering", for what it's worth, Cynthia's team has full flawless IVs across the board. This was found by the capture anything code; I imagine the results will be interesting to see once a similar code is made for HGSS
 

pokebrah

New Member
How about the Elite Four?
Heres what i think they should be packing.

Will definitely needs a Gallade or an Alakazam

Koga needs a Drapion

Bruno has to have an Infernape

Karen should at least have a Tyranitar

and really?Does Lance really need three Dragonite?
sack two of them and throw in a freaking Flygon and Garchomp
 
Here is what I think for kanto:

Brock- Rhydon,Omanyte,Golem,Kabutops,Aerodactyl
Misty- Starmie,Gyarados,Lanturn,Quagsire,Lapras
Lt.Surge- Electrode,Raichu,Jolteon,Electabuzz,Ampharos
Erika- Jumpluff,Meganium,Parasect,Bellosoom,Venusaur
Janine- Venomoth,Muk,Weezing,Golbat,Ariados
Sabrina- Alakazam,Espeon,Mr.Mime,Xatu,Hypno
Blaine- Houndoom,Magmar,Arcanine,Flareon,Magcargo
Green- Nidoking,Pidgeot,Kingdra,Umbreon,Tyranitar,Rapidash


And Bugsy should have a Yanma
 

waterballoon

Aspiring Coordinator

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
Will definitely needs a Gallade or an Alakazam

Koga needs a Drapion

Bruno has to have an Infernape

Karen should at least have a Tyranitar

and really?Does Lance really need three Dragonite?
sack two of them and throw in a freaking Flygon and Garchomp

Here is what I think for kanto:

Brock- Rhydon,Omanyte,Golem,Kabutops,Aerodactyl
Misty- Starmie,Gyarados,Lanturn,Quagsire,Lapras
Lt.Surge- Electrode,Raichu,Jolteon,Electabuzz,Ampharos
Erika- Jumpluff,Meganium,Parasect,Bellosoom,Venusaur
Janine- Venomoth,Muk,Weezing,Golbat,Ariados
Sabrina- Alakazam,Espeon,Mr.Mime,Xatu,Hypno
Blaine- Houndoom,Magmar,Arcanine,Flareon,Magcargo
Green- Nidoking,Pidgeot,Kingdra,Umbreon,Tyranitar,Rapidas h


And Bugsy should have a Yanma

Complaining and "What ifs" are useless at this point.

Hell, they were pointless all along.
 

Dragonite19

Dragonite Fan
I lol'd so hard! omg!

Hey, don't be so mean! (Sarcasm) I am just surprised, thats all. I mean Dragonite is fairly strong, being one of the "gen dragons" (the powerhouse dragon line for the gen, ex: Tyrannitar, Garchomp). It is just really depressing to a Dragonite fan like me. :(
 
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