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Gym Rework

Discussion in 'Pokemon GO Discussion' started by Locormus, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. Locormus

    Locormus Can we please get the old forum back?

    Simple. Starting June 16th, the gym system as we know it will be changed for good..

    What are you guys hoping? What are you guys expecting? I haven't got a clue what's coming, but what I'm hoping for is.

    Gym Defender Diversity:

    What I'm hoping for is that the diversity of Gym Defenders will change drastically. I've heard of a datamine-leak that there's text in place to restrict the placement of more than a couple of the same species. Well, how about just limiting that to a single of each species? Only one Dragonite in a gym.

    Type Specific Gyms:

    Another thing I'd like, which would also greatly increase Defender Diversity is that a gym would only have a single primary type that each trainer should follow after the first defender has been set until the gym is completely taken down.

    You want to set a Dragonite? Fine. It's a Dragon/Flying-type. The following trainer has TWO options. Am I going to put in another Dragon-type, or another Flying-type? I'd go with Flying-type, since the Dragon-type is currently still pretty limiting. But what if? Then you'd get a Gym with this roster:

    - Dragonite
    - Kingdra
    - Dragonair
    - Dratini

    And that's it. One species per gym. Of course, this would be a problem, but when GenIII rolls out (which has more Dragon-types) the problem will solve itself.

    If the trainer chose a Flying-type, say.. Gyarados would be the likely one, than then gym could look like:

    - Dragonite
    - Gyarados
    - Charizard
    - Skarmory
    - Crobat
    - Mantine
    - Aerodactyl
    - Pidgeot
    - Xatu
    - Jumpluff

    This would force trainers to use and to power-up Defenders that they normally wouldn't bother the time of day/power-up. Sure, these gyms would be heavy on the Rock-weakness, but that would make it interesting to have defenders like Jumpluff, Mantine, Aerodactyl (Iron Head) and Skarmory that can actively fight Rock-types with their own STAB-movesets.
     
  2. Playful Latios

    Playful Latios @Soul Dew

    I'm hoping that instead of CP, Pokemon are ordered by either the level they are or it has to do with who go t in the gym first. At least with level you can get more of a variety in gyms since anything could be powered up. I'm not happy that I'm going to lose the one gym that has been stable for a long time with my Blissey and right after it, another person's Blissey.
     
  3. Team Volt Grunt

    Team Volt Grunt Pokémon Collector

    I like the idea of limiting the number of same species to 1, but I don't like the idea of type restrictions on gyms. Diversity of the pokemon in a gym makes the challengers need to understand type alignments and use strategy. It's already easy enough to defeat a rival gym without being able to come in with 6 of one type and wiping them out.

    I like the idea that pokemon have a set amount of time before they are booted out of a gym if you don't go back and train/feed them regularly. I hate stale gyms and they never change in my town anymore, unless some lowlife with an alternate account comes to kick one of their teammates out just for a spot in a gym.

    I hope they rework the battling system a little bit. it's still glitchy.

    I want it to be easier to train your own color up. It's much faster to take down a rival team's gym than to build up your own team's.
     
  4. Bguy7

    Bguy7 The Dragon Lord

    Honestly, I couldn't even tell you what I want out of a gym rework. I just want things to work more smoothly. Though, I would appreciate something that balances Blissey better. I do like the type-based gym suggestion too.

    My fear right now though is the fact that they're saying this will increase collaborative gameplay. As a solo player, that has me afraid that this may make things harder for me. Hopefully whatever it is, it's completely optional.
     
  5. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    Something that makes more Pokemon useable please, not the usual suspect list of current gym attackers/defenders.
     
  6. LookingGoodra

    LookingGoodra Member

    I would do a couple things.
    1. A gym can only have 1 of each Species. If the gym has a Dragonite, that's the only one in the gym.
    2. A player cannot have more than 1 of the same species in a gym. If you placed a Dragonite in one gym, you can't put another dragonite elsewhere. Just another way to get different pokemon in the gym.
    3. Change the way pokemon are ranked. The CP system is broken and only adds fuel to the same pokemon problem. Let's make it so that Electric, Fairy, Fighting, Ice, Ghost, Steel and Bug type pokemon are viable.
    4. Fix the dodging glitch. Several times I will dodge an attack and it will register as a hit at first, switch pokemon, then switch back. That makes it incredibly difficult to dodge later or to complete a gym.
    5. Give us something better than Dodge and Attack. More attacks. Attack effects (poison, burn, paralyzed, etc), abilities. Something to make it better than simply swipe and tap. (This is a pipe-dream at this stage, I'd settle for any or all of the above).
     
  7. Locormus

    Locormus Can we please get the old forum back?

    Well, tomorrow is the big day. Gyms will shut down..

    Honestly disagree, respectfully.. In my neighborhood, I can check four gyms from home. Three of them have a couple of Blissey's, sometimes along with a Snorlax as well, specifically stacked at the bottom, by the same player with the intent obviously being to discourage players to attack them. And those aren't 1400cp Blissey's owned by people that just get by and managed to get 50 Chansey candy, those are spoofers that have farmed Blissey during the Valentine's event and are at 2600CP: Definitely strong and a bother to take down, but not high enough so that most teammates can place their Snorlax/Gyarados/Rhydon/Tyranitar/Dragonite on top of those.

    So, if I want to battle gyms, which I did for a while, I now have to fight not one, but TWO 2600CP Blissey's, perhaps a Snorlax after that and then an assortment of seven of the usual suspects all around 2800-3400cp.

    An real-life example:
    - 1. 2742 Blissey
    - 2. 2791 Blissey
    - 3. 2796 Snorlax
    - 4. 2808 Gyarados
    - 5. 2819 Gyarados
    - 6. 2877 Vaporeon
    - 7. 2917 Snorlax
    - 8. 2943 Gyarados
    - 9. 2975 Gyarados
    - 10. 3096 Gyarados

    This gym, has two weaknesses I can exploit: Fighting and Electric, but it's just not fun anymore. Because while I probably need two or three Jolteon to get through the Gyarados, I probably need four high level'd Fighting-types to work my way through those two Blissey and two Snorlax. And that Vaporeon isn't x4 weak to Electric, so a Grass-type would be nice to have in my team as well, but there's hardly room for that.

    Not to mention that if I take down a gym, the same guy with three accounts immediately spoofs in and bubblestrats up to Level 9.. waits until the gym hits 10, uses an alt-account, knocks it back to 9, and then places a high CP at the top. It goes on and on.

    So while you are obviously happy with your current situation (and honestly, if I could farm candy like that for more then 2 days I'd be happy too), respectfully, for the good of the game, it should not be made possible anymore.

    1. Agreed.
    2. Agreed, but it would annoy a lot of people that have spoofed for Chansey Candy and now have seven high level Blissey that aren't really worth it in terms of offense, as opposed to defense. If that means that I can only place one of my four Gyarados, so be it. I usually have one I place regardless, as the others are good battlers vs. Dragonite or Rhydon.
    3. Electric is viable: Jolteon is my go-to guy vs. Gyarados, it just isn't defensively. Fighting is viable: a good Machamp is a must vs. Blissey/Snorlax/Ttar. Gengar had the highest damage output I thought? Ice.. Well, historically is a bad defensive type in general. Lapras was good and I honestly can't wait until GenIV drops and I can get a Mamoswine. Fairies only get it big in GenVI and GenVII, with the exception of Togekiss and Gardevoir, which obviously aren't available yet. Abilities don't exist, otherwise Azumarill would've been seen a lot more often in offensive guides. Steel is a defensive type, but yeah, CP is broken and it just doesn't translate well to stuff like Skarmory, Forretress or Steelix and Scizor for that matter. Metagross will be spammed though once GenIII comes out later this year, Aggron as well. As for Bug.. It's a weak typing defensively. Forretress should be up there as a great defensive wall, but other than that I'm not surprised to see so few show up, not to mention that Heracross (great bulk and offense = high CP) is only available in Latin America.
    4. Agreed.
    5. Agreed at the "pipe dream" portion. Considering how it's not turn-based, stuff like poison and paralysis wouldn't even work in the same way. Well, as you only have 100 seconds per battle, poison could chip at your health every 10 seconds or so? Paralysis could have a chance to make your attack fail? But considering how often people just spam, I doubt people would notice that as much as they notice the speed drop in the main series. Freeze would be easy to incorporate, confusion would be hard, burn would work like poison would on a timer and the attack drop would work out as well. But I think that abilities would overcomplicate this game by miles. Yes, certain pokémon are only viable because of their abilities (Huge Power Azumarill for instance). But having to sit through a notification every time an effect happens would kill the momentum that the battles have currently. I hate how during confusion you need to click through lines of text. Just show if I hit myself or tell me if I snapped out. Imagination how that would work in PoGo between each Tap? Or thinking ahead: Mudsdale's Stamina?
     
  8. LookingGoodra

    LookingGoodra Member

    For 3, when I say Viable, I mean as defenders in the Gym. I have a strong collection of Jolteons and Lanturns that are a staple of my attacking team. But I would love to see a viable Electric type in the Gym. Same with Fighting (I do see the occasional Machamp), Fairy, Ice etc. Nerfing Lapras really sucked because that was a bonafide good Ice type. The overall point is CP sucks for Gym Ranking.

    For 5, I think there is a way to do effects without overcomplicating. For example, Poison you just have a purple haze on the character and they slowly lose HP over time. If your fighter is poisoned its the same way, except it could last into the next match (say I beat a Muk in a gym but my Rhydon was poisoned, the effect would continue as long as I have him in play until poison wears off). Would make Poison types a viable gym defender. Paralysis would prevent you from dodging. Confusion may cause you to miss or cause damage to yourself instead. Sleep, can't attack (maybe have to rapidly tap to wake up). I think there are ways to incorporate without overly complicating. I'd agree on Abilities.
     
  9. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

  10. PrismaticPrincessAnna

    PrismaticPrincessAnna I'll do my Lilliest

    In my opinion, first come first serve. Doesnt matter the CP. The first person has to be the one on the bottom.

    Also sick of seeing those same Pokemon being used, esp Blissey and Snorlax. Dragonite and Vaporeon fine since I can take it out easy.

    Thats about it I guess. Also diff Pokemon there and types. So its better.
     
  11. LookingGoodra

    LookingGoodra Member

    I actually strongly disagree with this one. If I spend a lot of resources tearing down a 10 person gym, why should my pokemon be the first one out? That would actually be a disincentive to taking down big gyms because your pokemon won't last in the gym because either (yours will be the first out when its attacked or yours will be taken down because no one is in the gym because people may not want to add to lower level gyms knowing they'll be out first). If that's the new system, I wouldn't bother taking out gyms, I would just find 7 8 or 9 Gyms and training them up so I can have the top spot.

    If I were to re-prioritize, I would make it based on where they are boosting wise. If you are Max Trainer Level 26 pokemon CP 1700, you get priority over a Level 24 Blissey even if the Blissey's CP is higher. CP can be a tiebreaker.
     
  12. Bguy7

    Bguy7 The Dragon Lord

    I am very interested in all this stuff announced. Unfortunately, it looks like the core gym battles themselves will be pretty much the same, it just a whole bunch of stuff added on top of what we already had. But all that extra stuff really does look pretty interesting, so I don't mind too much. Even if it doesn't fix some of the issues with gyms, it should at least make gym battles more interesting, and therefore more worth partaking in.

    EDIT: Never mind, I just found something that describes the new mechanics much better than Serebii. Read it here. Now I'm much more intrigued. This post claims that prestige, and therefore training a gym, is no longer a thing (thank you so much, that was my least favorite part of the game), but it doesn't mention what replaces it. I wonder what does. What I also want to know more about is this new coin system. It says that coins are now given when a Pokémon returns to you, based on how long it stayed in the gym. My area has an extremely high gym turnover rate, so I hope that there's a minimum of 10 coins given upon the return, or I may never get as many coins as I used to, which wasn't much.

    EDIT 2: After further reading, I found what is replacing the prestige system. It's the motivation system. A Pokémon can lose motivation by losing a battle, but earn it back by feeding it berries.

    Do you realize how messed up that would be? The person who put a Pokémon in first is the one who took the gym in the first place, so probably the ones who deserve to be on top the most, and stay in the longest. On the bottom, they're the ones who are going to be kicked out first.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  13. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    I like this new system as it means you can just keep putting Pokemon up and get rewarded for each one rather than put one up, claim the coins and then wait 21 hours to be able to do so again (and you'll have to put up another Pokemon on a Gym anyway).

    Raid battles seem pretty great to me as well. Just not sure about the one-pass-a-day feature...

    10 --> 6 Pokemon per Gym now, but I've noticed some PokeStops around my flat have now become Gyms too - ergo, more Gyms! And you can spin them too for items, just not place lures on them. Fine by me!
     
  14. Vipsoccermaster

    Vipsoccermaster Well-Known Member

    Looking forward to the gym changes, but sadly, none of the stops where I live (within view) have changed to gyms. Another thing that's disappointing since that training is no longer necessary, the Ace Trainer is completely useless. You still have the medal, but you won't be able to make any further progress. That means if you still have yet to get a gold medal for Ace Trainer, that opportunity is gone forever. Too bad that applies to me, I only got 77/1,000. And since I think training at gyms is the only way to get XP at weird numbers other than a 5 or a 0, if you have a digit other than 0 or 5 and wish to get to that digit, you're also out of luck. Maybe not, but we'll see when it truly comes.
     
  15. Bguy7

    Bguy7 The Dragon Lord

    Yeah, but it's not like the medal did anything before. It's always been useless. And what does it matter is your experience doesn't end in 0 or 5? That's an odd thing to worry about.
     
  16. Vipsoccermaster

    Vipsoccermaster Well-Known Member

    It's kind of pointless to have useless medals sitting in your profile page, in my opinion. The Type Medals are at least useful in which they provide catch bonus. The XP doesn't matter to me, but I'd thought I bring it up.
     
  17. Rapiido

    Rapiido Well-Known Member

    On the bright side, 2 Pokestops on the way to my gym/work have changed to gyms.. on the downside, there was only 5 stops on the way. Hoping gyms give a decent amount of items to make up
     
  18. Bguy7

    Bguy7 The Dragon Lord

    If that's your problem, then the Ace Trainer Medal is already worthless, as it provides no bonus and just sits there on your profile page. That much isn't going to change.

    The average stop only gives out three items. There's no way that gyms will give less than that. They have stated that friendly gyms will give more items, and you can also get bonus items by getting that gyms badge, so I'm assuming that it will be a base of three items, like Pokéstops, with additional items added for those criteria. It could likely end up being better than having a stop.

    Speaking of, that's one little change that I really like. Getting extra items from a friendly gym may not make that much of a difference, but at the very least it is a something that can actually benefit you if the gym is controlled by your team. In the past, a high leveled friendly gym was a worse thing to see than an enemy gym, because it was so hard to get into. There was no advantage to a gym being your color, unless you were actually in it. That's part of the reason I always felt that the team element of this game was so ridiculous. But now there is something to be happy about with a friendly gym, even if it is a minor reason.
     
  19. Playful Latios

    Playful Latios @Soul Dew

    They did a massive fail with gyms by not giving you the priority when you beat a gym with the new update. I got sniped twice before I could put in in addition to dealing with server issues.
     
  20. bobandbill

    bobandbill Winning Smile Staff Member Super Mod

    WOke up to the news and... gyms around me already filled by opposing teams. Whelp.

    I'll see if I can do anything to/from work I suppose. But early reports say that you get no coins unless your Pokemon sit on the GYm for an hour minimum. Then you get one coin!

    ...Niantic this is not how to do things! There is good news - feeding Pokemon berries can sometimes net you a candy for the Pokemon being fed, which is a good bonus. (And you get stardust for doing this too. Take that, Nanab berries!). But... coins! =(
     
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