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Hail Team Attempt

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Myrrh, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. Myrrh

    Myrrh Well-Known Member

    With this team I aim to try and use the Hail weather condition, but I try to bring in Hail later​
    on in the match as opposed to leading with it as is more likely done. Half the team does not benefit from Hail at all, so I lead with either of them and hope that they can do their job and help out again when needed later even while Hail is up. I've gotten some good wins with this team but I feel there is a lot of room for improvement. Hopefully I can get some great help here, and with that let's take a look at this train wreck.


    [​IMG]
    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Thunder Wave
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    With this pokemon I aim to Paralyze a number of my opponent's pokemon as most of mine are not terribly fast. In some instances I can also stall something out for PP or Hail or something. If I let something setup I can try and phaze it out with Dragon Tail. If I have Stealth Rock up I can also try and rack up passive damage by continually phazing things out if I can take more than a few hits from whatever my opponent sends out.

    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Giga Drain
    - Blizzard
    - Rapid Spin

    With three of my pokemon weak to Stealth Rock I need a good Rapid Spinner, and Tentacruel also helps with my Fighting weakness. Blizzard is there to take advantage of Hail when it can and so I don't get stalled by certain types like Grass or Dragons. Whatever Dragonite doesn't Paralyze Tentacruel can hopefully burn with Scald. Giga Drain to help keep it alive with the help of Black Sludge. With Rain teams being fairly common I could go with Rain Dish instead to take advantage of it, but Liquid Ooze has helped in a number of situations. Opponents have set up with Nasty Plot, Growth, and the like and Giga Drained Tentacruel only to take a good amount of damage themselves as well. Tentacruel often goes down regardless, but at the same time my opponents have as well.

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Leech Seed
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    With a Special Defensive spread hopefully I can switch in on those types of attacks and attempt to start chip damage with Hail and Leech Seed. Substitute I use on switches and if I can get one in on a successful fully Paralyzed opponent I can Leech Seed and annoy to better effect. Protect helps with stalling for my recovery, Hail damage, and scouting. I Blizzard when I can get in attack in and so I am not forced out due to a Taunt.

    [​IMG]
    Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Adaptability
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Thunderbolt
    - Tri Attack
    - Trick

    Being Modest natured, Scarfed, and able to fire off 100% Blizzards in Hail made Porygon-Z seem like a great Hail abuser, but more often than not I see myself using Tri Attack, and Hail is not always up to aid Porygon-Z. Thunderbolt is there so I am not walled by Steels and Trick is to Item screw the opponent. With Dragonite Paralyzing things I could risk going Specs, but most battles I'd be lucky if I can Paralyze 2-3 things at all.

    [​IMG]
    Cobalion @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 28 Atk / 228 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Close Combat
    - Volt Switch
    - Stealth Rock
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Cobalion is here to set up Stealth Rock and take Defensive hits. Outraging Dragons like Dragonite and Salamence hopefully won't be doing to much to Cobalion at all and then take great damage from HP Ice. Besides that i don't really remember why i chose this pokemon and what else it does to the team. >.> Will most likely get replaced with something as it adds a Fighting weakness and I could have easily had a lot of those.

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance
    - Substitute

    If I'm lucky I can see some weeps with this thing....if I'm lucky. I go for Intimidate cause my team is Fighting weak and it can cause switches for me to Substitute on and Dragon Dance after. With only two attacking moves I could potentially get walled by a number of things, so I try and send this out after some pokemon have been weakened/taken out. I am not too sure how well this pokemon fits as it gives another weakness to Stealth Rock..

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Leech Seed
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Giga Drain
    - Blizzard
    - Rapid Spin

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Thunder Wave
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Ice Fang
    - Protect

    So there it is, I noticed that I don't really have a great STAB Blizzard user to take advantage of Hail. Perhaps I should use like a Scarf Kyurem or something. Starmie also seems like another good choice for Rapid Spin support and it can fire off better Blizzards than Tentacruel, though I like what Tentacruel brings to the team. I don't really want to use a full Hail team, but if the help I get takes me there then that would be fine. I hope to get any sort of help I can get.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  2. Luciola

    Luciola Pokemon Tamer

    Are you really planning to use Dragonite under Hail? with Multiscale?
     
  3. Myrrh

    Myrrh Well-Known Member

    I don't lead with Hail, but yes, I do realize that it would be problematic. Perhaps I can use a different ParaShuffler like Milotic or something I guess. Or something else you suggested.....can suggest.
     
  4. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    Leftovers really helps with negating hail damage.
     
  5. Luciola

    Luciola Pokemon Tamer

    Yes, Leftovers helps in negating hail damage but it is still a problem in maintaining the Multiscale effect. In such circumstances, your only mode of recovery is Roost, since Leftovers is equalized by the passive weather damage. It would definitely screw your Dragonite's defensive tempo.

    I would suggest Gyarados or Cobalion (with Roar), a lesser option is Latias. Though using it would lessen offensive presence since it is not allowed with DT but Roar.
     
  6. Atrocious

    Atrocious Well-Known Member

    I really don't see the point of Abomasnow. Nothing really abuses hail besides like PZ to fire off some Blizzards along with Tentacruel but that's about it. Is it really necessary?
     
  7. Myrrh

    Myrrh Well-Known Member

    Yeah I know, I got thinking and I'm pretty sure I want to take out something for a Kyurem, likely Porygon-Z. I don't aim for this to be a full on Hail team, I would try to send in the non Hail abusers first to do their own thing and then bring in Hail later. But if this is crap then I can go ahead and try more Hail abusers.
     
  8. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    synergy also is important, and a weater team doesnt have to be full weather abuse, it can also be used to hinder the opponent's weather. Btw P-Z should have Download, along with Blizzard. Also make it Timid, it needs all speed it can get.
    The team isnt exactly fighting weak 2/2 its rock weak 3/1
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  9. Myrrh

    Myrrh Well-Known Member

    Yeah so, I'm gonna take out Porygon-Z in favor of this:

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem Choice Specs/Modest
    Blizzard
    Draco Meteor
    Earth Power
    Focus Blast

    252 HP/Special Attack, 4 I don't know

    That gives me another Rock Weakness which I don't need. I think I'd like to take out Cobalion, Gyarados, and leave Dragonite, Tentacruel, and Abomnasnow on the team along with Kyurem. I'm thinking for a Steel type I'd go for Skarmory, but it might come in with Hail up making Sturdy useless. Right now I don't have much idea of what to do with this.

    I'm listing 252 HP cause I figure it's bulky enough to take some big hits or whatever. If I should 252 Speed then I'll do that. This post seems so meh to me :/
     
  10. Ilaria

    Ilaria Member

    If you need some steel type Pokémon, I would suggest 3 of those:

    [​IMG]
    Metagross, leftovers, Adamant
    252 HP, 252 attack and 4 speed
    Meteor Mash
    Bullet punch
    Earthquake
    Zen headbutt
    It's a base moveset, really helpful if you need a Pokémon with high coverage

    [​IMG]
    Scizor, choice band, adamant
    Technician
    252 HP, 252 attack, 4 Special defense
    Bullet punch
    U-turn
    Pursuit
    Superpower
    The most reliable steel type of the metagame, I would suggest this if you really need a good Steel type.

    [​IMG]
    Registeel, leftovers, careful
    252 HP, 252 attack
    Stealth Rock
    Toxic
    Earthquake
    Iron head/Thunderpunch/Hammer arm (depends what kind of coverage you need)
    Registeel works well in OU metagames, if you ask me, takes fire attacks pretty well, can fight Heatran, Magnezone and Metagross without problems, just don't keep it against Infernape. Take this if you need coverage and a good attacker at the same time.
     
  11. Myrrh

    Myrrh Well-Known Member

    Okay, each of these seem good, thank you. I like the first two more since Toxic on Registeel seems counter intuitive with Dragonite wanting to Paralyze everything. I guess I'll try using one of these along with a 6th and see how the team does.
     
  12. Yellow De Viridian Grove

    Yellow De Viridian Grove Well-Known Member

    I would try Bounce>Earthquake because it has STAB, can paralyze, and what resists Flying, is usually hit hard by Waterfall. It also allows you to hit Breloom without being weak to Mach Punch.

    Also, I am kinda confused as to what this team is trying to accomplish. It doesn't have a solid core, defensive or offensive, and seems more like you put some pokemon that are good at what they do, just maybe not together...

    Synergy is kinda a problem. 3 pokemon are weak to fighting and 2 of the pokemon that resist fighting are weak to rock. The one pokemon who resists rock is weak to fighting. You're just asking for Terrakion to get a sub and sweep your team.

    You could try using Gliscor>Gyarados. He still has the Fighting resist while walling Terrakion to an extent. With the Toxic Orb and Ice Fang, it also is a good switch-in to Breloom. You could try to SD version. Gliscor rarely has Taunt nowadays, so it would be a good surprise and prevents phasing.

    I'll try to find a replacement for Cobalion later if you want one.
     
  13. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Bounce is a free switch for your opponent and should never be used unless you're trolling with Wailord.

    However, the point about Terrakion is valid, he gets a clean 6-0 on you if he carries Earthquake. I'd recommend replacing Porygonz with a decent Terra check, something like Scizor.
     
  14. Yellow De Viridian Grove

    Yellow De Viridian Grove Well-Known Member

    Bounce is useful on Gyarados. The first set has it as the main slash. I've also used to much success.

    Starmie can also be used over Tentacruel. It retains Rapid Spin and a resistance to Fighting while being able to switch-in on Terrakions Close Combat and threaten to KO with Hydro Pump. Close Combat will also be used more ofter over Stone Edge due to the more damage and higher accuracy, so it should be easier to get Starmie in even if you have an ice type out, who is weak to Stone Edge and Close Combat.
     
  15. ashsinnoh

    ashsinnoh Well-Known Member

    Hi, as some other people said, it seems that this team isn't built around anything and it's hard to understand how your team is supposed to work. First of all, while Dragonite is bulky and decent phazer, it's rather counterproductive against more defensive or balanced teams, and the fact that Pokėmon, such as Poitoed or Ferrothorn don't really mind paralysis. Another thing is serious Terrakion weakness. I would like to suggest Physically Defensive Poliwrath. Not only it resists both of Terrakion's STABs, but you also get a decent Scizor and rain check in general as well as a decent Tyranitar counter. Secondly, you basically have no way to stop sun teams. Your best bet is probably Gyarados, which seems rather shabby. I would try Specially Defensive or Offensive Heatran. It sets up Stealth Rock, can phaze with Roar and spread burns with Lava Plume or poisoning with Toxic. If you decide to go with offensive one, you get pretty good offensive pivot against sun and Steel-types in general. My last suggestion would be either to run Stone Edge for Earthquake on Gyarados, or try Latias or Celebi, because as of now Breloom and Thundurus-T seem like a big threats and both of sugested Pokemon help with that. In all honesty, I would switch Kyurem either into Sub + 3attacks or Scarf set and change Abomasnow to either Scarf (then run Sub 3attacks Kyurem) or Mixed Expert Belt set, as both either let you check other Dragons or force some kills/switches.
    Sorry for basically rebuilding your team, I just tried to bring out full potential of this team and haven't rated in a while (so my rate migh be dull). I'll post sets tommorow after school (rating this team at 4AM and on phone), just in case you decide to go for some of these changes. Thank you for reading and I hope I was some kind of help.
    Changes and Sets:
    (pending)
     
  16. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    Poliwrath only resists Stone Edge, not Close Combat. The only two Pokemon who resist its STABs are Gallade and Medicham.
     
  17. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Poliwrath is also terrible, with no base stat higher than 95. Gallade might be usable, but not defensively. You're best sticking with Gliscor or Skarmory, or something that can revengekill it.
     
  18. ashsinnoh

    ashsinnoh Well-Known Member

    Sorry if I sound rude, but you should test some Pokemons before really bashing it stat-wise. Poliwrath works perfectly fine in this meta, and while Skarmory may be better at 'kind of' checking Terrakion, same with Gliscor, they all have different checks and counters. Not that I mean to be offensive here, it's just something worth considering to think about ^^
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  19. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    There is no reason whatsoever to use Poliwrath over Vaporeon or Jellicent or Swampert or really any other bulky Water type. Absolutely 0. He has no useful niche whatsoever. Even in NU, I don't see why anyone would use it over Alomomola. Does he have reliable recovery? No. Does he have a unique ability? Nope. Does he have any real offensive prowess? Not really.

    Also, 252 Attack neutral Terrakion's Close Combat does 145-172 to 252 Defence positive Poliwrath. Guaranteed 2HKO after SR and 2 layers of spikes, small chance to 2HKO without hazards. In return, what do you do to it? Scald and hope for a burn?

    252 Attack neutral Choice Band Terrakion's a guaranteed 2HKO, so SubSD and Band Terra aren't even checked. In fact, Terra at +2 has a small chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  20. Skarm™

    Skarm™ Light It Up

    Hail really doesn't benefit this team, all it does is cause trouble to Pokemon like Dragonite with a multiscale ability. What I'd recommend is running Specially Defensive SubCM Latias > Abomasnow. It gives Dragonite more room to take hits, and takes special attacks like a boss. It'd also give you a popular DoubleDrag team. Here's a set:

    Latias @ Leftovers
    248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
    Levitate
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Substitute
    -Calm Mind
    -Roost

    This helps with your noticeable weakness to strong special attackers like Specs Latios and Gengar. This team also hates Tornadus-T, which is why I also recommend Choice Scarf Jirachi > Cobalion. It can take a Hurricane, then KO the Tornadus with one of its coverage moves. It also helps with the special attacker weakness because U-Turn nails Lati@s and an para flinch gengar to death. Here's a set:

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Serene Grace
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Ice Punch
    -Fire Punh
    -Iron Head
    -Uturn

    This set also ties with Scarf Salamence to possibly prevent a moxie sweep.

    Hope I helped!
     

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