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Hardest Gym Leader of All Time

LucarioIsMegaEvolving

A single misplaced step
I hated battling Volkner in Diamond and Pearl because he only had 2 Electric Pokemon and that messed up my Ground type strategy. I'll never understand why they gave him Octillery and Ambipom when they could've given him two Pachirisu or a Pikachu and a second Raichu.
While I do like the idea of gym leaders using more than just monotype teams, he could’ve at least used like a Porygon-Z and a Rotom form, Pokémon that are related to electricity.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
LucarioIsMegaEvolving said:
While I do like the idea of gym leaders using more than just monotype teams, he could’ve at least used like a Porygon-Z and a Rotom form, Pokémon that are related to electricity.

Are you referring to his Platinum team, or his Diamond and Pearl team? Because Porygon-Z and Rotom weren't available in D/P until the post-game, so it wouldn't have made much sense for him to have had them on his Gym roster in D/P.
 

LucarioIsMegaEvolving

A single misplaced step
Are you referring to his Platinum team, or his Diamond and Pearl team? Because Porygon-Z and Rotom weren't available in D/P until the post-game, so it wouldn't have made much sense for him to have had them on his Gym roster in D/P.
I was thinking the D/P team, but my memory of those games and Platinum is kind of conflated, so I didn’t realise those Pokémon were unavailable. Those were just my first thoughts anyway, letting him use Pokémon outside his type without the Pokémon chosen being seemingly at random. Is there a reason it was specifically Octillery and Ambipom in D/P?
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
I was thinking the D/P team, but my memory of those games and Platinum is kind of conflated, so I didn’t realise those Pokémon were unavailable. Those were just my first thoughts anyway, letting him use Pokémon outside his type without the Pokémon chosen being seemingly at random. Is there a reason it was specifically Octillery and Ambipom in D/P?

They can both learn electric moves. Octillary has coverage so that make it useful and Ambipom uses Technician Shock Wave, Two boosting moves and baton pass which is a fun challenge. Volkner was the last gym leader and you could have a legendary in the team at that point.
 

NovaBrunswick

Canada Connoisseur
While I do like the idea of gym leaders using more than just monotype teams, he could’ve at least used like a Porygon-Z and a Rotom form, Pokémon that are related to electricity.

I keep forgetting that the Porygon line aren't Electric-types, but I think they should be, given that they were made in cyberspace and all.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
Clair in the Johto games was a pain in the neck. I hated fighting Dragon types back in Generation 2 because they used to be so overpowered compared to now.
I quite agree. Dragonair wasn’t too bad if you had a strong Ice type with Ice Beam but Kingdra was a total nightmare. That thing was virtually unstoppable without another strong Dragon type.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
OwensJB said:
Clair in the Johto games was a pain in the neck. I hated fighting Dragon types back in Generation 2 because they used to be so overpowered compared to now.

I definitely didn't like having to battle her, but after thinking it over a bit, I think I've come to respect her team because of how challenging it was. The same applies to Akane's (Whitney's), and it's weird because despite G/S/C being generally easy games, they still managed to have two of the hardest Gym Leaders in the series.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
Giovanni was hard for me as a kid with Yellow. Of course, I was a dumb kid so I was unprepared, but Fissure. All the Fissure. Then there was Persian's Slash, and of course this being Gen I, Slash was always critical. And then Rhydon was just awful. I remember wandering around in the backyard telling myself not to go inside until I beat him because I was crying so much and didn't want anyone to see me.

But hands down, Whitney was the worst no matter what I did. The fact they kept her hard in the remake is what freaks me out so much, like I thought I was prepared to take her down, but it still took me like a good fifteen/twenty minutes to finish the fight, and I was playing it before class started, too. All that pressure.

I honestly forgot Tate & Liza were hard if you weren't prepared for them. Their Pokémon having Levitate I think is what had thrown me off the first time around, next to their Psychic/Rock dual-typing, they just resisted Water, Grass, Dark, and Fighting attacks--just about everything except maybe Steel? Took me a few times to finally beat them. Dick move, Game Freak. Really no wonder Ash had to pull Thunder Armor out of his ass to beat them.
 

NovaBrunswick

Canada Connoisseur
I quite agree. Dragonair wasn’t too bad if you had a strong Ice type with Ice Beam but Kingdra was a total nightmare. That thing was virtually unstoppable without another strong Dragon type.

I feel like most people would've chosen Totodile, so it could have Bite for Morty and Ice Fang for Clair and Lance. On my first Silver game (which was also my first Pokémon game ever), I had a Feraligatr.

Clair in the Johto games was a pain in the neck. I hated fighting Dragon types back in Generation 2 because they used to be so overpowered compared to now.

I definitely didn't like having to battle her, but after thinking it over a bit, I think I've come to respect her team because of how challenging it was. The same applies to Akane's (Whitney's), and it's weird because despite G/S/C being generally easy games, they still managed to have two of the hardest Gym Leaders in the series.

Funny how the Champion in the Johto games is easier than the third and final Gym Leaders. The Elite 4 were also quite easy too.

Giovanni was hard for me as a kid with Yellow. Of course, I was a dumb kid so I was unprepared, but Fissure. All the Fissure. Then there was Persian's Slash, and of course this being Gen I, Slash was always critical. And then Rhydon was just awful. I remember wandering around in the backyard telling myself not to go inside until I beat him because I was crying so much and didn't want anyone to see me.

I think Sabrina in Gen 1 would've been a nightmare too, since Psychics were immensely overpowered, Ghost-types failed to affect them (due to a glitch in the programming) and their only weakness was Bug, and there weren't many strong Bug-types at the time. GF were aware that the Psychic-type was OP in Gen 1, which is why they created the Dark and Steel types in Gen 2 to help balance the games out. Same reason the Fairy type was created in Gen 6.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
I think Sabrina in Gen 1 would've been a nightmare too, since Psychics were immensely overpowered, Ghost-types failed to affect them (due to a glitch in the programming) and their only weakness was Bug, and there weren't many strong Bug-types at the time.

Oddly enough, she was easy in Yellow thanks to Pikachu's Slam. I didn't realize this at the time that the Alakazam line are glass cannons, I was just picking out attacks I thought would be the strongest. Erika was more frustrating because of Sleep Powder and Wrap, though I think in Red/Blue she was worse than in Yellow.

Grinding being a pain in the ass in Gen I plus too much Normal-type movepools for a lot of Pokémon I think is what made those games hard in general next to the glitches. But I don't know when it was exactly kids back then noticed the IVs to make it easier on themselves. The teenagers might've, but I dunno.
 

NovaBrunswick

Canada Connoisseur
Oddly enough, she was easy in Yellow thanks to Pikachu's Slam. I didn't realize this at the time that the Alakazam line are glass cannons, I was just picking out attacks I thought would be the strongest.

Don't Psychic-types generally have poor physical Attack and Defense stats anyway?
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
Don't Psychic-types generally have poor physical Attack and Defense stats anyway?

Yeah, but again, I didn't know that at the time. I just used whatever attack I wanted, and just happened to notice Slam was pretty powerful against Sabrina's Pokémon even though they were twenty levels higher than mine. Willing to bet a lot of kids my age didn't know about IV stats back then, so some had more trouble with Sabrina than others. I remember my one brother having a hard time with her when I had previously bragged "She was eaaaaasy".
 

NovaBrunswick

Canada Connoisseur
Yeah, but again, I didn't know that at the time. I just used whatever attack I wanted, and just happened to notice Slam was pretty powerful against Sabrina's Pokémon even though they were twenty levels higher than mine. Willing to bet a lot of kids my age didn't know about IV stats back then, so some had more trouble with Sabrina than others. I remember my one brother having a hard time with her when I had previously bragged "She was eaaaaasy".

I think most of us didn't really care about stats, EVs and IVs when we were kids, we just chose Pokémon and attacks we thought looked cool or powerful, or both. Which is why there were so many Hyper Beams, Earthquakes and Flamethrowers back in the day.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
In Gen I Psychic Pokémon were weak to other Psychic types so if you spammed Psychic on Sabrina, her Pokémon would go down with ease.
 

Aduro

Mt.BtlMaster
In the main games: Lenora. That Herdier is going to kill something, and watchhog is a mencae with hypnosis and a good speed stat. Like the OP said, normal gym leaders are really tough.

Overall though, I'd say Janine's second team in Stadium 2. So much hax in a game that will abuse RNG. Toxic, followed by double teams, flinching. confusion and attraction. You'd better have a fast mon with taunt, and hope it doesn't get flinch haxed to death by her crobat.
 
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