• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Has Pokémon Journeys Lowered Our Standards

Has Pokémon Journeys Lowered Our Battle Standards?

  • Yes

    Votes: 42 56.0%
  • No

    Votes: 19 25.3%
  • Eat the Rich!

    Votes: 14 18.7%

  • Total voters
    75

Bortgreen

Captain Pikachu is EPIC
Journeys actually lowered their own standards
I was just watching some early JN battles and there is a clear difference in animation from what we have been getting lately, the only one that felt more like the current ones was Mr. Mime vs Hariyama.
The series improved a lot fanservice/continuity-wise over time, but there were clearly some production issues after that beginning. The first episode that needed to have many animation directors was JN020 that was early March, and we only got two more episodes before the pandemic hiatus happened.
Even now things have gotten better, there are still issues or the staff just got used to make worse animation. They didn't even plan to animate the other Master 8 battles

I do hope we get better battles from now on, we are reaching high levels now with the Ash battles

Not going to talk about questionable decisions like the Greninja retcon because for some reason they like to mess up randomly like that in every series
But honestly, early Journeys feels like a completely different series and not just because of animation
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
In terms of battle it was ok. Still not OP like the ones from os to xy, but decent.
And the characters look less distorted when compared to last series so it is wonderful
 

Bortgreen

Captain Pikachu is EPIC
Btw I watched the video and I never thought I would hear SM battles were better than Journeys(and the craziest thing is that it's mostly true). I enjoyed it but Alola was never a battle-heavy series
Even if JN's artstyle is a clear improvement
Anyway, the staff will have to work very hard to achieve anything near the madness the last few SM battles were
We are already lacking a hype ending like Type Wild
 

Morax

King of heroes
Piccolo himself thought it was smart to enter the tournament himself, just to rub it in to the world that he defeated his nemesis in the "Strongest Under The Heavens Martials Arts Tournament", instead of just confronting Goku at any moment afterward, so clearly he thought it wise.

Also it's not like Goku woulda just packed up and gone home if Piccolo had knocked him out of the ring during the fight. He's in it for the game, but I strongly doubt the loss of a title win would stop him from pressing on.
I don’t know what you’re getting at but the point i’m trying to make is that villains aren’t pointless just because they are predictable. By that logic every Hero x Villain story ain’t worth watching because we know the hero wins in the end.
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
I don’t know what you’re getting at but the point i’m trying to make is that villains aren’t pointless just because they are predictable. By that logic every Hero x Villain story ain’t worth watching because we know the hero wins in the end.
Yeah, predictable or not shouldn't really matter as much as what the series' story is about. XY/Z's story was much more involved with the villain plot, so of course that'd be the big climax, while with most of the others it makes sense it's the league....and then there's BW where I have legit no idea what they were trying to do for that whole final year aside from "stall for XY"
 

Poke Master 7

Boulder Trainer
Journeys in itself is a lower standard compared to pretty much everything post OS. Between the battles, Pokémon and character development and even episodes themselves, everything feels like a cheap version of what came before Where they rush to finish everything in a half hour. It’s basically like comparing Dragon Ball/Z to Super in quality.
 

Heitor160

Well-Known Member
So given that Ash looked TIGHT and the episode prior told Iris she should go at Cynthia with everything she got, I’m wondering if they’re going to go with the whole “avenge me” thing make Ash sweep her. I get the tease that this will be one of Journeys “bad battles” as well with the fandom.
Ash vs Cynthia would be the perfect occasion for Ash to use his previous aces (Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape, Krokodile?, Greninja, Lycanrock). His past mons would have some time to shine while his current team could defeat Leon.
Maybe the writers are worried that kids won't find it compeling to see Ash fighting with mons unknown to them, but at the same time they already did an episode with two characters barely shown in the series fighting (Lance vs Diantha), so this argument kinda falls flat.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I know XY had its flaws like filler and how they handled Serena & Clemons at different points in the series, but I thought the general consensus was that the series was perfect in terms of the battles
Battles they could be BOTHERED with at least, which I think is true for any series. Serena didn't get to battle ONCE without some sort of interruption for example, while parts of the Kalos League were skipped over. Not to mention how many battles came down to "Dodge!" spamming.

I feel like XY set the high standard for its BEST battles, but like other series, you had to get through a lot of padding.

I think the biggest problem with Journeys is that it's not really got a gold standard area except perhaps all the returning characters and their arc continuation, and even that makes up only a small percentage of episodes. Like I feel like it wants to have the story variation of SM and the battle intensity of XY, but it never really reaches the quality of either. This last year has saw an improvement but I wouldn't say it's top notch yet.

That doesn't mean Journeys is BAD however, I'd argue I'd still like to watch a random episode of Journeys over some of the earlier eras where many episodes just felt interchangable. It's just more a jack of all trades series rather than one with real good and bad areas.
 

GGuitarGuy95

Well-Known Member
I'm seeing a whole bunch of ppl praising the fanservice and continuity despite the fact the Anime is doing the absolute bare minimum. In this aspect, yes, the standards are lower. Everything else, not so much.
 

Dragonsoldier77

Bittersweet Satisfaction
It definitely feels like the standard has lowered in many respect, battles are probably just the most obvious one.

Even taking away how good the animation are, the thing that i missed the most from XY battles is the quick counter and dodge towards attacks. It felt like each battler always at least TRY to not get by their opponents move, and it made them look like skilled battlers that can think on their feet and make split second decisions.

Now it’s basically just waiting for the attack for the most part, then being shocked pikachu faces when it hits. It’s like the games, which takes away what how anime battles actually made battles feel more dynamic. I do wonder if this is just another bout of incompetence or did they do it on purpose because how they seem to be trying way harder to stick to the games with everything else as well?
 

GLTSRY

Sorry not sorry for my smugness
I do wonder if this is just another bout of incompetence or did they do it on purpose because how they seem to be trying way harder to stick to the games with everything else as well?

I think so. It’s basically 2 birds with one stone: It’s closer to the games AND they save themselves the hustle of animating more dynamic scenes.

The issue is, while many people - me included - want the basic rules of the game to apply to the anime, the turn based mechanic is something that no one wanted. The entire charm of the anime was that we get to see Pokémon battle in real time, making use of the environment, dodging etc.

Right now, I can just create the PWC with my friends and enjoy an online tournament instead of watching the anime - I wouldn’t miss out on anything
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
Erm yes but as far as the Master Class? Not really. These battles victors were decided way before the actual battles occurred which isn’t rare but you could tell that they just didn’t plan these at all.

Leon is questionable because he is the monarch and it does give a preview of his team so his match could have but Diantha and Cynthia were planned as winning way before they even thought about all of this
 

Ѕhiny Missingno

Well-Known Member
It was not Journeys that lowered people's standards but rather Sun&Moon.

SM introduced having fewer battles, having battles with worse animation than previous series, having almost no 3v3s and only one 6v6 at the end and so on.

Journeys is just continuing on SM's track record. It's just that these flaws are more noticeable with Journeys because Journeys is actually a battle-focused series so the shortcomings are more prominent as opposed to a slice-of-life series. Also Journeys having a less interesting main cast than SM is contributing to its downfall.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Has the animation style and quality changed? Yes. Have the show's style and formatting changed? Yes.

The format of the show has changed slightly. Even though the show has always been semi-serialized with fillers between arc episodes, they used to connect those together better using the narrator. JN doesn't use that anymore. Filler episodes stand on their own, making the series feel more episodic.

Pokererlax isn't wrong that the M8 battles don't hold up to the Lumiose Conference finals in XYZ. The animation style, especially the battle animation style, has changed significantly. JN isn't XY or even SM, which had much more fluid battle animations. COVID, the animator shortage, and the pressures of doing a weekly anime are all likely contributors to this.

But I don't think that its fair to blame the show for "lowing our standards." We can choose whether we accept the changes in animation and story quality and vote with our remotes. If we choose to continue watching, then we're making the choice to lower our own standards and accept the changes that the show made. Blaming the show is just scapegoating and clout chasing.

I'm not saying that the show doesn't deserve criticism for the changes, but its not the show's fault if you keep watching.

Remember - Serebii PADS posters and YouTube influencers aren't the target audience for the show. The show is targeted to 10 year olds who generally don't care about the animation.
 

pardusco

"The oppression of Poké Balls."
It was not Journeys that lowered people's standards but rather Sun&Moon.

SM introduced having fewer battles, having battles with worse animation than previous series, having almost no 3v3s and only one 6v6 at the end and so on.

Journeys is just continuing on SM's track record. It's just that these flaws are more noticeable with Journeys because Journeys is actually a battle-focused series so the shortcomings are more prominent as opposed to a slice-of-life series. Also Journeys having a less interesting main cast than SM is contributing to its downfall.
You conveyed my thoughts into words so perfectly. SM set us up for this!!!!
 

Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer

Gingertail24

Well-Known Member
Yes. To each their own. But I guess I can't find myself putting any of these M8 battles a 9/10 or 10/10 as I've seen other people. Even 8/10 feels like a stretch to me. The best M8 battle imo is at best 7/10. I still think the best battle was the Volkner battle
 
Top