Has the pokemon anime lost its touch?

[Caelesti]

The only thing I really don't like about the current season is the new voice actors. I can't deal with them. |:

Other than that, the series still follows the same pattern; nothing's really changed but the characters and the Pokémon in the region.

The only character that's had true long-term character development is Gary. Gary started out on the same (maybe lower) maturity level as Ash, but he's pretty much a true adult now.

I totally agree. Although, I must say that Misty - even though she isn't in the show for the most part - changed a lot, too. They were the only characters that got some development imo. Brock is still girl crazy and Ash is still dense and immature.

 

[randomspot555]

Even if there are less filler episodes, they're not that entertaining. Even some of the actual important episodes follow that same repeated formula.

I'm the first to admit it's still formulaic. But re-using characters instead of introducing new ones (neve to be seen again), and giving an oveall plot to Sinnoh besides Contests/gyms, and so on...well, it's quite a change and pretty much all that could be expected from a show with a limit to how advanced the plot can get.

Regardless of the fact that they're recurring characters, they're still just as flat as when they showed up. Sure, Dawn may have had her pity party, but after that, she's really not changed in the long run.

Some are (Kenny, and to a lesse extent Zoey, who started out fairly interesting; and Nando, but mainly due to his lack of screen time), but overall I think characters like Angie and Conway have been a benefit to the series, and the Gym Leaders/E4 more interesting than before.

I will agree with you on Gary, though. I was really happy to see the change in Gary's character, but since that chain of events really started at the end of Johto, you can't really use that example when considering Sinnoh.

But it is the first time we see Gary actually doing research, because he didn't appear at all in Hoenn except for the last episode.

Horrid animation? I'm sorry, but the digital animation that most anime uses nowadays may look crisper and cleaner, but it just saps tons of life and character from the series. I'm coming into this argument extremely pro-hand drawn animation, but I really don't see how the "horrid" animation of the first series can turn you off...unless you were one of these kids raised on the crappy digital anime around today.

As I'll clarify later, I'm not comparing the animation of 10 years ago with the animation of today. But rather the animation of 10 years ago with the animation of 10 years ago used by other shows. It's very low quality, and is made even worse when on the big screen (Movie 1).

Slow pace? The Kanto Arc is the shortest out of all of them how could it have a slow pace?

While later sagas actually have stuff happen between the important episodes, Kanto did not. This is demonstrated in that, even though a number of episodes either never made it out of Japan, or aired out of order, the only important event that happened in those was Tauros being captured.

And comparing the animation from now and 10 years ago is rather pointless
as there will obviously be differences.

Again, I think even for the time it's in, the animation is quite poor.

 

[Zazie]

While later sagas actually have stuff happen between the important episodes, Kanto did not. This is demonstrated in that, even though a number of episodes either never made it out of Japan, or aired out of order, the only important event that happened in those was Tauros being captured.



Again, I think even for the time it's in, the animation is quite poor.

Stuff happened all the time between important episodes in the Kanto arc. There was an episode where children were being hypnotized, one where they went aboard the SS Anne one were a giant tentacruel attacked etc. All of that is stuff that happened. It may not be the kind of stuff you are interested in but it is stuff. As I said earlier gym battles don't setup as much crazy antics as the so called fillers do.

Since you are so convinced the animation is poor can you give any examples?

 

[randomspot555]

Since you are so convinced the animation is poor can you give any examples?

Movie 1 is a great example of poor animation. I honestly do mean most of movie 1.

I think it is poor animation, probably due to what I think were budget restraints. Remember that the anime didn't plan on going past Kanto.

But it also might be due to whoever was filling the role of director of animation. Which is still a problem that I've noticed today, most recently with the Cress Vs Darkrai episode. Particularly pay attention to stuff that's repeated all the time, like the poses of Team Rocket or waving bye to the COTD. If it seems like you missed a second or two of a hand wave, or Jessie got to her position in a pose too quickly, that's a mistake of the director.

I can't really give specific examples of early episodes because I don't have them handy at the moment.

 

[drtomoe123]

Movie 1 is a great example of poor animation. I honestly do mean most of movie 1.

I think it is poor animation, probably due to what I think were budget restraints. Remember that the anime didn't plan on going past Kanto.

Are you talking about the English or Japanese version of Movie 1? I could see that in the English version because of the pan and scan, which really screws up the proportions and overall image quality of the movie.

However, if you're not talking about that issue, I guess it's just personal opinion, because I thought the first movie looked pretty good, especially in comparison with the TV series.

 

[HoennMaster]

Not at all, the series is probably the best it has been. Even without Misty . sure the writers make some very stupid mistakes here and there, but Sinnoh > Kanto.

 

[pichu96]

Well I think it's pretty good, but not as good as the originals! Misty was awesome!

 

[Grei]

"Has it lost it's touch?" ?

Really? You're asking that?

It lost it's touch many years ago. It's been reduced to the following formula:

Introduce [featured Pokemon], sometimes with [featured Pokemon's trainer]
Get to know [featured Pokemon]
[Featured Pokemon] has it's problems introduced
Team Rocket appears and tries to ruin everything
Team Rocket battles Ash and co.
Team Rocket's blasting off again! (*ding*)
Yaay the [Featured Pokemon] solved it's problems!
[Repeat]

...and that's usually it. Fit in Brock's useless rants about why Water Pokemon have advantages over Fire types and you've got an episode of Pokemon.

Stack on the changed (and now poor) VAs and varying animation and you have one crappy anime.

It's saving grace is that Sinnoh has been pretty awesome thus far, despite the episode formula that they constantly use.

 

[Cobalt_Latios]

I totally agree. Although, I must say that Misty - even though she isn't in the show for the most part - changed a lot, too. They were the only characters that got some development imo.

Brock is still girl crazy

Which is more a running gag than anything. In fact, if it weren't for that, Croagunk, one of the funniest Pokemon to date, wouldn't have any real purpose.

and Ash is still dense and immature.

He is, but it's nowhere near as noticeable (in fact, there are moments where it seems he notices that himself), and he seems to be a heck of a lot more intelligent (this may be more battle wise than anything, but that's because it's who he is). Sure, he may still have some quirks here and there, but that's because it's who his character is.

But it is the first time we see Gary actually doing research, because he didn't appear at all in Hoenn except for the last episode.

There was that one episode back in Chronicles ("Putting the Air back in Aerodactyl", I think). You see him doing research on fossils I think.

I actually think the more recent series has certainly improved in terms of plot than in the past. Sure, you still have the same old song in dance in terms of actual storyline, but considering it's based on a game that's hardly changed much over the last 10-12 years (except maybe some gameplay elements and improved visuals... see the similarity?), it's gotten quite a bit better.

Maybe not much better compared to some other shows, but good enough to still stand strong after it's time being here. I've seen more decent episodes int he Sinnoh saga than I have in some of the previous ones.

*C_L*

 

[S.Suikun]

I'm gonna bust some heads with a post here tomorrow, but I wanna comment on the animation ordeal real quick:

It's personal preference whether you prefer cel or digital (both have their pros and cons; cel is charming but not as clean or efficient, while digital is cheaper and more vibrant but shortcuts are taken and some things appear tacky), but regardless of your preference, specific episode animation and art boils down to the different folks at the helm. Back in the cel animation days (up until near the end of Johto), there were good animation directors and bad animation directors. Nowadays in the digital era, there are still good animation directors and bad animation directors. Heck, many of those AD's today are the exact same ones from near the beginning. That's right; the Takeda you see today is the same Takeda in Indigo, without a lick of improvement.

As a general rule of thumb, however, the movies have a far superior animation budget than the series. That's the one indisputable fact here.

I'll get to material like plot or characters or development tomorrow.

 

[HoennMaster]

Honestly, from my point of view the animation is nice overall. I barely notice the differences between ADs (expect for a few minor things).

 

[bonslyclogsthetoilet]

To me, it's pretty much same as before. But I thought they improved in terms of villains and rivals. The rivals seems to appear more frequently than past series making it more center plot oriented as with the frequent appearances with Paul. Heck, even Gary managed to appear a few times. With team Galactic, i thought it's interesting how they got real villains other than the same old Team Rocket who I don't really considered to be villains, but rather just comic relief.

As for animation-wise, I don't think anyone that watches Pokemon watches it for it's animation, mainly they would watch it because they're just a fan of the games or fan of pokemon in general. If you do watch it for its animation, then there a bunch of other animes out there you can watch for it.

 

[Pom Pom]

I am very tired of Team Rocket. Maybe they wouldn't be so obnoxious if they actually won in a while, but it is no fun knowing that they will always lose. Now they are just annoying.

 

[S.Suikun]

I promised, and I shall deliver.
It's "Go" time.

Yes, because once upon a time Team Rocket was actually cool. And come on! The plot's so shallow, man... at least Yugioh had a pretty interesting plot. As for movies, they're just the old movies with a new face. Take Giratina and the Sky Warrior, for example. Pokémon 2000: the Power of One and Mewtwo Returns, anybody?

Team Rocket was cool? When was this? Oh, Kanto, you say? You mean the Kanto where Team Rocket gets beaten up by a Caterpie and then cowers in their little Beedrill tent while getting beaten up yet again? Seriously, when I ask people when Team Rocket was ever "serious", they respond with "Episode 2". That's fine; I agree. Too bad that in Episode 3 and beyond, they become the incompetent goofballs you continue to know them as today. Team Rocket as an organization was a threat, but as a trio? they've always been pathetic.

I also fail to see how Giratina is anything like the Mewtwo and Lugia movies outside the fact that all three are totally mediocre (seriously, Pokemon 2000 has aged so horribly). Villain who wants to capture a legend? It's a cliche now, and it was also a cliche back then.

If the plot get's better, as it seems they're trying to make it, who knows, I might watch it again.Hopefully when the HG/SS arc starts, It becomes much more of an anime and less of an advertisement.

I mocked this earlier, but I need to mock it again:
If Pokemon stopped being an advertisement, it wouldn't be Pokemon. If they didn't want it to be an advertisement, they wouldn't have an HGSS saga in the first place since - you know - that's exactly advertising.

While I will agree with lots of the posts in this topic regarding the fact that the anime has matured because of its new found focus on an actual, interesting plot, the character development has gone downhill considerably. The characters are cookie-cutter, almost fanfic-esque now. It's same-old same-old when it comes to EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER.

Funny, I'm not really recalling any truly sophisticated character develoipment in the series' entirety. Ash progressed as a character very gradually, but has never been the most interesting protagonist in the world by a longshot. Misty received some development in Kanto, then sorta stalled out through Johto until she was rightfully written off. Enter May and dawn, who arguably received even better growth than Misty thanks to having their own storyline and advnacing toward their goals. Misty took over the gym again, but that was last-minute. But I think we can agree that Brock has gone nowhere since the day he joined the group.

One thing that has undoubtedly improved, however, is the fact that the Pokemon themselves now have personality to expand upon. Sure, Bulbasaur and Squirtle were vibrant, but Charizard was the only one to really get any growth over time. But when you compare some of those Pokemon to Chimchar's story of brutality, it doesn't compare.

The overall plot structure (with the exception of gym, contest, any important event, etc. episodes) are flawed in the same way, which suffers from the "meet trainer, meet Pokemon, TR attacks, 'haha, thanks guys!'" formula that's plagued the series since Johto, and arguably Orange Islands.

The Problem With Paras
Ditto's Mysterious Mansion
The Battling Eevee Brothers
Make Room for Gloom
So Near Yet So Farfetch'd

That's just off the top of my head for Kanto. All follow that exact same tired formula and each were as boring as the last. I really think the amount of these types of formulaic episodes is over-exaggerated in every single saga, but the point stands.

As for overall plot, how can it have gone "downhill" when it hasn't really changed at all?

I would love to see a more mature version of pokemon. The show is aimed too much at little kids. It was fine to watch when I was young, but now it is not the same.

I think that a more mature spin-off of the show would be better

Go find one of the ten bazillion threads about the same thing and maybe learn a few things about demographics.

I think they've dumbed the show down a bit.
Like when i watch the indigo leauge, oragne islands or master quest sagas they arn't made like the new ones of DP.
(yes the anime design is all new but other than that)

Like they've made it to target little children but the true views are with the people that watched the show from the start. not a bunch of snotty little kids in grade 3 that think they know the show.

But that's just one girls thoughts.

It's funny, because I hear "Pokemon has become too kiddy" about as often as I hear "Pokemon has become too dark and serious!"
Make up your darn minds, you silly people.

I will agree with you on Gary, though. I was really happy to see the change in Gary's character, but since that chain of events really started at the end of Johto, you can't really use that example when considering Sinnoh.

I will actually say that gary is one of the things I disapprove of in Sinnoh. The fact that he has appeared so little proves my point - his story is totally done, and it's been done since Johto. They could do interesting things with his new career, but we've only gotten glimpses of it. Granted, Sinnoh has quite a few secondary characters to juggle around, so Gary takes a backseat.

Slow pace? The Kanto Arc is the shortest out of all of them how could it have a slow pace?

Indeed, "Slow pacing" isn't the right term to use for Kanto. I have a nice alternative:

"Awful pacing"

Setting one episode between gym battles and then soon placing over 30 episodes between two gym battles really proves that the staff had no idea what the **** they were planning for this series, and thus, were backed into a hole. When combined with all the elements that were retconned in early Kanto (levels being a big one), it really goes to show how many kinks were still being worked out in that stage of the series.

Yes the show did have more craziness back then an overexciuted Ash, Tsundere Misty, and comic releif pokemon like psyduck and jigglypuff.

Psyduck was great, I'll give you that one. Jigglypuff was great for a while, but was rightfully retired once its schtick became overly exhausted. But slapstick comic relief is still quite present in cast Pokemon like Croagunk or Corphish or even Happiny. And even though I'm talking about Hoenn here, I don't recall anything in Kanto being quite as "crazy" or "zany" as the antics with the Trick House, the Whiscash/Fishing Master episode, the Giant Claydol, etc. Maybe "Island of the Giant Pokemon", but that's all that jumps to mind.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Its hard to say if pokemon anime "has gone down" or not but personally i enjoyed more in this show before(it just had some kind of spark which doesnt have in these days).There were more unique plots like that whole St.Anne arc or unique gyms like it was the case during Orange Islands which you dont get to see in these days so often.Nevertheless i also enjoyed more when Misty was around who with her interesting personality and character interaction made this show more funny and interesting(in my opinion),and its a shame that she got boot when there is so many unused potential left unused and her story is left unfinished.

However aside from this its undeniable that writing has improved alot and there are made noticeable improvements over the years.Characters pokemon are being handled better,there is more arcs and new features introduced,characters goals are being expanded more,gym leaders are getting proper introducement(providing some informations about them and their backstories) etc.
In end while im not enjoying in this show like i used to(mainly because of some wrong decisions made from writers side in my opinion),im still liking this anime and the ways in which has been progressed.

I totally agree. Although, I must say that Misty - even though she isn't in the show for the most part - changed a lot, too. They were the only characters that got some development imo. Brock is still girl crazy and Ash is still dense and immature.

Thats true,Misty initially started as short tempered girl(being irritated over every little thing) but with time started to develop as character becoming more mature and responsible as person(even during Johto she received some development),continuing development further on in chronicles/cameos.Personally i like how she has developed as character still keeping her main traits but at the same time becoming more mature and responsible as person(although she can still explode) which shows her strenght giving more depth to her character.

Than again from what i have noticed May matured/changed even more.As for Ash while he still makes some rookie mistakes,he went through big development being more calculated,not so reckless in battles and changing his view about some things maturing as character.

 

[Ash-kid]

I think it little lost his touch since season 9.
The openings, songs in the episode, pokemon voices, and other things are not good as before season 9.
Also I waited a year to a season to come, and now only 3 months.

For example, see the opening of season 11.
How they dare to let girl to sing the opening???!!!!!
I feel because of this that the show is on Dawn not on ASH.
And why the opening begins with Dawn's eyes???
And why Zoey is shown in the opening and Paul not?????

 

[randomspot555]

How they dare to let girl to sing the opening???!!!!!

Sexist much?

 

[Ash-kid]

Sexist much?

I think it's the worst thinking of them to do that not a man will sing the opening!!

 

[randomspot555]

I think it's the worst thinking of them to do that not a man will sing the opening!!

What do you have against a woman singing an opening theme song?

 

[harryheart]

I think it little lost his touch since season 9.
The openings, songs in the episode, pokemon voices, and other things are not good as before season 9.

Firstly if you think its that bad then don't bother watching it! This is what annoys me people complain about the animé and then still watch it! Pointless! There's no point in watching it unless you enjoy it or have to for some reason or not!​

Also I waited a year to a season to come, and now only 3 months.

And this is bad because...? You wait a shorter time! That's good! And presumable because your talking about voices changing you live in America although your english and grammar are atrocious! So for Galactic battles you waited what a matter of a few weeks?​