Has the Strength of "Unbeatable" Trainers been reduced by the Anime in Recent Times?

[Ragnarok4]

The Sinnoh League hands down has the most skilled trainers out of all the leagues in the series.

This.
Conway and Paul were great strategists, they were true competitors.

Man, Paul back then was a better trainer than Ash (to me). After so long, he should be stronger than Alain or Cynthia. Paul should be participating in the PWC, and he should already be ahead of Ash.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

This.
Conway and Paul were great strategists, they were true competitors.

Man, Paul back then was a better trainer than Ash (to me). After so long, he should be stronger than Alain or Cynthia. Paul should be participating in the PWC, and he should already be ahead of Ash.

Paul would have a better chance at being stronger than Alain than Cynthia imo,due to his competitive nature as a trainer he'd take full advantage of Mega Evolution,Z-Move and Dynamax the same way he did with Status Moves/Abilities.The guy was always obsessed with power and was willing to do almost anything to obtain it,early DP he entered the Hearthome City Tag Battle Tournament not to win the sooth bell but to meet other fire type pokemon that could power up his Chimchar's moves.

 

[Blood Red]

Champions seemed invincible because Ash, the protagonist, was nowhere near as strong as them. Now that Ash is a Champion himself, he's no longer a step below them; he's at their level. Plus, all his peers grew to be just as strong as he is. There's no reason for E4/Champs to appear unbeatable because Ash and his rivals are either at that level, or beyond it.

 

[Ignition]

I think the franchise in general is being less about a “those at the top are unreachable goals” mindset and more “they’re reachable but it’ll take a lot of effort/skill” perspective. Comparing NPC dialogue from earlier Gens to recent ones shows more of a supportive outlook for the MC becoming Champion.

Ash’s current goal having everyone start at the bottom is a good way to convey this as you could be the Champion or a rookie and still make it to the top (hypothetically) which works considering what Ash was vs what he is now as of SM. I think this works better as it gives both them & Ash a sense of strength while also opening up the possibility of getting stronger instead of being content with being untouchable

 

[TheWanderingMist]

No, Ash has just gotten better. There's a big difference between (metaphorically) the chances of a Lv. 5 against a Lv. 50 and a Lv. 40 vs. a Lv. 50. The Lv. 40 will still have quite some work to do to win its battle, but the Lv. 5 stands almost no chance outside of extremely unorthodox tactics that probably wouldn't work in the anime like they do in-game.

 

[DayQuil95]

I really like this, actually. Ash went from a 10 years old who mostly had badges handed to him and wasn't skilled in the slightest as a trainer, to a 10 years old trainer who pulls the best out of even his weakest Pokémon. A prime example of this is how his Charizard, arguably his strongest base-form Pokémon, had lots of troubles facing Articuno in Battle Frontier, but seasons later he managed to overcome Zapdos with a recently evolved Noivern, by overpowering it? No, by outwitting and using of excellent strategy. (Yes, I do recognize that Articuno had a trainer, while Zapdos was wild, but still.)
At this point, I'd be glad to see Ash's rematches with members from Elite Four that he lost to. How cool would it be to see Ash face-off against the likes of Lorelei, Agatha, and Flint again? Or best-case scenario, winning against them. We have been shown that Ash went face-to-face against Alain, whose Charizard managed to overpower Malva's Ace, it's already time we see Ash showing just how skilled he is as a trainer by beating one Elite Four himself. And once the inevitable final battle against Leon comes, finally make a huge part of the fandom acknowledge Ash as an actual trainer on par with the strongest and most skilled trainers in the franchise, like Manga Red.

 

[TheNewGuy]

I really like this, actually. Ash went from a 10 years old who mostly had badges handed to him and wasn't skilled in the slightest as a trainer, to a 10 years old trainer who pulls the best out of even his weakest Pokémon. A prime example of this is how his Charizard, arguably his strongest base-form Pokémon, had lots of troubles facing Articuno in Battle Frontier, but seasons later he managed to overcome Zapdos with a recently evolved Noivern, by overpowering it? No, by outwitting and using of excellent strategy. (Yes, I do recognize that Articuno had a trainer, while Zapdos was wild, but still.)
At this point, I'd be glad to see Ash's rematches with members from Elite Four that he lost to. How cool would it be to see Ash face-off against the likes of Lorelei, Agatha, and Flint again? Or best-case scenario, winning against them. We have been shown that Ash went face-to-face against Alain, whose Charizard managed to overpower Malva's Ace, it's already time we see Ash showing just how skilled he is as a trainer by beating one Elite Four himself. And once the inevitable final battle against Leon comes, finally make a huge part of the fandom acknowledge Ash as an actual trainer on par with the strongest and most skilled trainers in the franchise, like Manga Red.

I agree completely. After 20+ years IRL it became basically impossible to portray Ash as a weak trainer given the achievements the plot basically demanded that he get...I mean, he won like 40+ gym badges on the strength of his battling alone, made top 2/4/8 of multiple tournaments, so after a certain point you have to stop pretending he sucks. Thankfully, they did that and now we're where he probably should have been like a decade ago, but whatever. I feel like his defeat of Iris is low-key his biggest win, but because we were only TOLD that Iris is now a top-tier trainer and the champion of the entire region, not SHOWN, it doesn't quite feel that way.

The only thing I'm waiting for with Ash is to see him unleash his fullest power in a battle - to use his dream team. I want him to take on somebody that was already established as a top-tier trainer - say, Cynthia - and beat them using his 6 best.

 

[Pokemonfan5]

I agree completely. After 20+ years IRL it became basically impossible to portray Ash as a weak trainer given the achievements the plot basically demanded that he get...I mean, he won like 40+ gym badges on the strength of his battling alone, made top 2/4/8 of multiple tournaments, so after a certain point you have to stop pretending he sucks. Thankfully, they did that and now we're where he probably should have been like a decade ago, but whatever. I feel like his defeat of Iris is low-key his biggest win, but because we were only TOLD that Iris is now a top-tier trainer and the champion of the entire region, not SHOWN, it doesn't quite feel that way.

The only thing I'm waiting for with Ash is to see him unleash his fullest power in a battle - to use his dream team. I want him to take on somebody that was already established as a top-tier trainer - say, Cynthia - and beat them using his 6 best.

I think using 6 best in one battle wouldn't be a good idea, Pokemons like Charizard and Infernape should be use to win against different trainers so they won't get overshadowed.

Charizard can be use to beat Cynthia's Garchomp while Ash can use other non ace pokemons like Gliscor and Melmetal for other Cynthia pokemons.

While Ash-Greninja most important win I think would be against Alain charizard x, Pikachu battle against Leon's charizard as finale is already building up like Tapu Koko.

 

[DayQuil95]

I just want to see Ash's Infernape rematch against Flint's Infernape, or even first clash again a champion for that matter.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I just want to see Ash's Infernape rematch against Flint's Infernape, or even first clash again a champion for that matter.

Ash vs Flint NEEDS to happen, f Volkner

 

[U.N. Owen]

It’s less that the strength of unbeatable trainers has gone down and more like the anime has blundered in its storytelling and its abuse of offscreen land. It doesn’t help that we lack of scale of time since this universe doesn’t exactly give us a nice calendar we can run the numbers and scale what happens in off screen land.

 

[TheNewGuy]

I think using 6 best in one battle wouldn't be a good idea, Pokemons like Charizard and Infernape should be use to win against different trainers so they won't get overshadowed.

Charizard can be use to beat Cynthia's Garchomp while Ash can use other non ace pokemons like Gliscor and Melmetal for other Cynthia pokemons.

While Ash-Greninja most important win I think would be against Alain charizard x, Pikachu battle against Leon's charizard as finale is already building up like Tapu Koko.

Sorry, I only just saw this.

I really believe he should use his 6 best in his biggest battle, or something close to it. I don't mind Charizard being overshadowed this time because in my mind if Ash were to beat, say, Cynthia, any contribution is welcome. Charizard doesn't need to KO 2 or 3 of her Pokemon. Even if he just weakened the Garchomp, that's good. Any damage to any of the Pokemon is welcome. Similar to how Melmetal lost against Gladion but still played a vital role in weakening Silvally.

 

[Pokemonfan5]

Sorry, I only just saw this.

I really believe he should use his 6 best in his biggest battle, or something close to it. I don't mind Charizard being overshadowed this time because in my mind if Ash were to beat, say, Cynthia, any contribution is welcome. Charizard doesn't need to KO 2 or 3 of her Pokemon. Even if he just weakened the Garchomp, that's good. Any damage to any of the Pokemon is welcome. Similar to how Melmetal lost against Gladion but still played a vital role in weakening Silvally.

But which trainer is strong enough to make Ash use his 6 strongest Pokemons? Pikachu already reach high champion level and going to beat world champion Leon's charizard, Charizard and Ash-Greninja most likely low to mid champion level as well, Incineroar and Infernape probably high E4 or low champion level now.

While we never seen any trainer whose team is this much close to each others, like in last DP Episode it was revealed Flint Infernape beat 2 of Cynthia's Pokemons alone and put good fight against Garchomp means Cynthia's other pokemons are far weaker than Garchomp.

 

[Ragnarok4]

But which trainer is strong enough to make Ash use his 6 strongest Pokemons? Pikachu already reach high champion level and going to beat world champion Leon's charizard,

you're talking too fast, like always, with assumptions

1) Leon is the world champion, we do not know if his other 5 pokemon are Mid Champion level
2) we still don't know if Ash will defeat Leon

 

[Pokemonfan5]

you're talking too fast, like always, with assumptions

1) Leon is the world champion, we do not know if his other 5 pokemon are Mid Champion level
2) we still don't know if Ash will defeat Leon

Yeah Leon is maybe the only trainer right now that can force Ash to use 6 strongest Pokemons but it's still assumption.

 

[Psajdak]

They are all losers.

 

[AznKei]

I think it's a good thing that the number of unbeatable trainers has been reduced in recent times. I'm not a fan of them tbh. I like to see rivals taking losses and struggling during the battles and that they grow throughout their respective series.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Yeah Leon is maybe the only trainer right now that can force Ash to use 6 strongest Pokemons but it's still assumption.

Alain’s Charizard alone

 

[Pokemonfan5]

Alain’s Charizard alone

You're overestimating Alain's charizard x too much.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

You're overestimating Alain's charizard x too much.

Then again, anything is possible with Hyper Potions between matches.