Has the Strength of "Unbeatable" Trainers been reduced by the Anime in Recent Times?

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

I'm still asking why use weak Pokemons even for sacrifice when strong pokemons can do far better? Depending on just one or 2 Pokemon to win entire battle seems really bad, also why anyone will use this kind of strategy to purposely lose their Pokemons.

Why is using 2 pokemon to scout a person's team a "terrible strategy" when we know he saw him use reserves against other opponents at the league?"And for all we know Paul could've been saving Torterra,Magmortar,Ursaring for Tobias.Just saying it was terrible strategy because he didn't use his strongest pokemon against Ash isn't a good enough reason.

Pikachu tie with much stronger Latios, if he was as powerful in the beginning of DP as he was at the end of BF Ash would've easily won against Paul in first battle and beat roark in front of Paul, but no Ash has to be a fodder trainer because plot demanded for their rivalry otherwise why pikachu did faaar worst against Roark than Roxanne?
Pikachu alone would've take out 2 if not at least Ursaring and make Drapion exhausted for Gliscor to finish, Starraptor can take out Honchkrow, blaze Infernape can take out Electivire and Torterra (that Infernape use flare blitz many times and was poisoned since second time Ash bring him still won against Paul), Weavile doesn't have strong feat to beat other 2 Pokemons alone.
Torkoal did faaar better against one of Regis than Ursaring and Electabuzz.

Obvs if Pikachu didn't reset it would've beat Elekid,this is so irrelevant because everyone knows this,same thing for if Ash used Charizard,Sceptile,Snorlax the entire time in DP.

Starraptor can take out Honchkrow

Based on what?A Pokeringer contest is different from an actual pokemon battle.

Weavile doesn't have strong feat to beat other 2 Pokemons alone.

Not sure why you're mentioning Weavile since I said TEDUMH not his Lake Acuity team,Weavile is clearly Paul's weakest pokemon.But it was still impressive that it managed to dodge Staraptor's Aerial Ace and also get on top of it's back.

Torkoal did faaar better against one of Regis than Ursaring and Electabuzz.

Do you think Torkoal is stronger than Ursaring from Lake Acuity?Because that's one of Ursaring's best feats along with the one against Barry at the SL.

 

[mehmeh1]

No one will EVER be Yusuke Urameshi or Yusei Fudo-level broken

Yusei lost to Kalin/Kiryu tho (sure, his life points didn't reach 0 so he wouldn't die but he still by all intents and purposes lost)

 

[RafaSceptile]

Fanbois' minds aren't going to be changed.

There is no "unbeatable" trainer.

There are only protagonists below the level of Goku, Tai, Yusuke Urameshi, Naruto/Boruto, Deku and/or Yusei Fudo.

TO quote Team Four Star's Dragon Ball Z Abridged..

"POWER LEVELS ARE BULLSHIT"

This also applies to win rate biases.

No one will EVER be Yusuke Urameshi or Yusei Fudo-level broken.

Quit letting other stuff induce bias on things such as win rates and power levels.

Ash isn't Yusuke or Yusei.

And neither are other trainers in Pokémon.

So don't expect unbeatability from ANYONE.

The problem is that people is trying to said that post-DP series had a lot less strategies than pre-BW series, which is not true, from most of the Gym Battles especially in XY to the Grand Trials to Kalos and Alola League, the important battles showed plenty of strategy on both sides.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Yusei was really OP at the WRGP when he mastered Clear Mind and Accel Synchro Summon.Before that he was being aided by the Crimson Dragon.

 

[Gamzee Makara]

Yusei lost to Kalin/Kiryu tho (sure, his life points didn't reach 0 so he wouldn't die but he still by all intents and purposes lost)

And Yusuke lost once, too.

My metaphor was regarding characters scaled to the point of being portrayed as unbeatable.

 

[deliaketchum]

I belive the reason DP battles are considered more strategic and better by some due to-
1. They introduced a rival very early on. Gary was a rival but the rivalry was not the main focus throughout the series unlike DP. This gave more serious tone to DP compared to other regions. Hence the writing related to how battles would develop were natural. Battles also seemed more serious and dramatic.

Unova introduced rival early but then the rivalry was not developed. They made rookie a rival who was not only irritating but cheap copy of paul. Unova had more relaxed tone early and then every thing was rushed. Too many arcs - team rocket, team plasma, N, Declore islands, etc. Everything was muddy. DP had clear goal of defeating Paul.

I think evolution of battles/strategies is the key reason you will find DP battles more interesting.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Paul gave DP a serious tone because of not only him appearing more often than Gary but how skilled and competitive he was as a trainer,multiple times Paul was seen capturing & scanning pokemon with his pokedex,he gave his Azumarill to another trainer after it lost badly to Roark,throughout DP he was shown putting his pokemon through intense training.

Every time him and Ash faced each other it was intense and Ash really had to work to try and beat him.I'd say DP still has the best strategic battles,the gym battles improved a lot compared to the ones in the previous series,the contest battles also improved to the point of Ash using some of the strategies (Counter Shield) (Ice Aqua Jet).The Sinnoh League hands down has the most skilled trainers out of all the leagues in the series.

 

[Morax]

There are only protagonists below the level of Goku, Tai, Yusuke Urameshi, Naruto/Boruto, Deku and/or Yusei Fudo

You forgot to add Yamcha-sama.

 

[Pokemonfan5]

Why is using 2 pokemon to scout a person's team a "terrible strategy" when we know he saw him use reserves against other opponents at the league?"And for all we know Paul could've been saving Torterra,Magmortar,Ursaring for Tobias.Just saying it was terrible strategy because he didn't use his strongest pokemon against Ash isn't a good enough reason.

Obvs if Pikachu didn't reset it would've beat Elekid,this is so irrelevant because everyone knows this,same thing for if Ash used Charizard,Sceptile,Snorlax the entire time in DP.

Based on what?A Pokeringer contest is different from an actual pokemon battle.

Not sure why you're mentioning Weavile since I said TEDUMH not his Lake Acuity team,Weavile is clearly Paul's weakest pokemon.But it was still impressive that it managed to dodge Staraptor's Aerial Ace and also get on top of it's back.

Do you think Torkoal is stronger than Ursaring from Lake Acuity?Because that's one of Ursaring's best feats along with the one against Barry at the SL.

Dot that strategy need to be just copy paste and rely on just one or two Pokemons in 6vs6?
Pikachu getting reset is to show that Ash is fodder trainer to Paul, otherwise Ash would've easily shown more powerful than Paul in many occasions, Pikachu beat Regice but can't beat a single Pokemon in lake acuity even though Paul Pokemons was easily destroyed by Regis, otherwise he would've taken out 2-3 Paul Pokemons alone, but that can't happen because for story Ash has to lose very badly.

Starraptor also beat ice type Weavile who had type advantage.

Torkoal did far better against Regi than any Paul Pokemon, Ash would've obviously beat Paul lake acuity team in Sinnoh league with Sinnoh team if writers stop nerfing his pokemons, Pokemons like Infernape, Pikachu and Gliscor become way more powerful in Sinnoh league than they was in Lake acuity battle.

For other comment, Paul shown doing much intense training to Chimchar only because he wanted to bring out his special blaze, in all other pokemon he was shown training same way Ash and other trainers did in anime,

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Dot that strategy need to be just copy paste and rely on just one or two Pokemons in 6vs6?

SMH.....

Pikachu getting reset is to show that Ash is fodder trainer to Paul, otherwise Ash would've easily shown more powerful than Paul in many occasions, Pikachu beat Regice but can't beat a single Pokemon in lake acuity even though Paul Pokemons was easily destroyed by Regis, otherwise he would've taken out 2-3 Paul Pokemons alone, but that can't happen because for story Ash has to lose very badly.

You do realize Electabuzz,Magmar and Ursaring went through ten straight days of training after losing to Brandon's pokemon right?

Starraptor also beat ice type Weavile who had type advantage.

So that's your argument for Staraptor beating Honchkrow?It's not even Ash's strongest bird flying type.

Torkoal did far better against Regi than any Paul Pokemon, Ash would've obviously beat Paul lake acuity team in Sinnoh league with Sinnoh team if writers stop nerfing his pokemons, Pokemons like Infernape, Pikachu and Gliscor become way more powerful in Sinnoh league than they was in Lake acuity battle.

The Lake Acuity team being used at the SL would mean Paul is using Torterra,Electivire,Ursaring,Magmortar,Honchkrow,Weavile which is much stronger than Electivire,Drapion,Aggron,Gastrodon,Froslass,Ninjask.Ash has never defeated Torterra in a straight 1 on 1,Charizard,Haxachu and Infernape with Blaze have the strongest cases for beating it 1 on 1 any other pokemon at the time would've gotten stomped via Frenzy Plant.

In a realistic scenario Ash's biggest powerhouses is taking out 1 one of Paul's biggest heavyhitters and then losing or drawing to the next one depending if Ash leaves them out or not.But yeah Ash using Infernape,Pikachu,Buizel,Gliscor,Torterra,Staraptor is NOT defeating Paul's Torterra,Electivire,Drapion,Ursaring,Magmortar,Honchkrow.

 

[deliaketchum]

I think during Lake Acuity battle, ash made lot of stupid mistakes like letting buizel continue battle, using grotle to fight honchkrow, not caring when ursaring used bulk up. His whole attitude of fighting recklessly, letting emotions take over and relying on guts than strategy caused loss.

I think paul was in much better mental state during lake acuity battle and that lead to character development of Ash.
I think pikachu was nerfed and should have won atleast 1.
Pikachu drawing with elekid after winning against regice didnt make sense either.

But then if pikachu's experience is cumulative, it would be too op and not good for plot and brand ambassdor of anime.

 

[Pokemonfan5]

SMH.....

You do realize Electabuzz,Magmar and Ursaring went through ten straight days of training after losing to Brandon's pokemon right?

So that's your argument for Staraptor beating Honchkrow?It's not even Ash's strongest bird flying type.

The Lake Acuity team being used at the SL would mean Paul is using Torterra,Electivire,Ursaring,Magmortar,Honchkrow,Weavile which is much stronger than Electivire,Drapion,Aggron,Gastrodon,Froslass,Ninjask.Ash has never defeated Torterra in a straight 1 on 1,Charizard,Haxachu and Infernape with Blaze have the strongest cases for beating it 1 on 1 any other pokemon at the time would've gotten stomped via Frenzy Plant.

In a realistic scenario Ash's biggest powerhouses is taking out 1 one of Paul's biggest heavyhitters and then losing or drawing to the next one depending if Ash leaves them out or not.But yeah Ash using Infernape,Pikachu,Buizel,Gliscor,Torterra,Staraptor is NOT defeating Paul's Torterra,Electivire,Drapion,Ursaring,Magmortar,Honchkrow.

And what's Honchkrow best feat is? Beating 2 of Maylene Pokemons which Staravia did too, defeating Grotle because of type advantage?

Oh few days training make them suddenly so powerful? Ash's most of Sinnoh team Pokemons also become way more powerful during Sinnoh league than lake acuity, Chimchar fully evolved into Infernape and master his special blaze that will let him beat 2 heavy hitters of Paul, look at Electivire battle where Infernape already take so much damage from previous battle and being toxic but still giving Electivire equal fight who barely take a damage and easily destroy that electivire when blaze activated, Pikachu put a great fight against Flint Infernape who is far more powerful than even Paul's torterra and Pikachu was even more powerful during Sinnoh league that he tie with Latios, Gliscor become much stronger thanks to his training with Ash and later sky master (or whatever he was called).

If Ash Vs Paul lake acuity battle was anywhere near to realistic the battle would've been way more closer, but it was just use to make their final battle so much impactful.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

And what's Honchkrow best feat is? Beating 2 of Maylene Pokemons which Staravia did too, defeating Grotle because of type advantage?

So because of that you say Staraptor could beat Honchkrow?

Oh few days training make them suddenly so powerful? Ash's most of Sinnoh team Pokemons also become way more powerful during Sinnoh league than lake acuity, Chimchar fully evolved into Infernape and master his special blaze that will EASILY let him beat 2 heavy hitters of Paul, Pikachu put a great fight against Flint Infernape who is far more powerful than Paul's torterra and Pikachu was even more powerful during Sinnoh league that he tie with Latios, Gliscor become much stronger thanks to his training with Ash and later sky master (or whatever it called).

If Ash Vs Paul lake acuity battle was anywhere near to realistic the battle would've been way more closer, but it was just use to make their final battle so much impactful.

Tier 1
Paul's Torterra
Ash's Infernape
Ash's Haxachu
Paul's Electivire
Paul's Ursaring
Paul's Drapion

Tier 2
Paul's Honchkrow
Ash's Gliscor
Paul's Magmortar
Ash's Pikachu

Tier 3
Ash's Buizel
Ash's Torterra
Ash's Staraptor
Paul's Weavile

 

[Pokemonfan5]

So because of that you say Staraptor could beat Honchkrow?

Tier 1
Paul's Torterra
Ash's Infernape
Ash's Haxachu
Paul's Electivire
Paul's Ursaring
Paul's Drapion

Tier 2
Paul's Honchkrow
Ash's Gliscor
Paul's Magmortar
Ash's Pikachu

Tier 3
Ash's Buizel
Ash's Torterra
Ash's Staraptor
Paul's Weavile

What's Honchkrow had in comparison?

Don't forget that Gliscor who battle Drapion has taken many damage not just from ninjask but also because he was poisoned for entire battle and still beat Drapion, he is easily at tier 1 too.

Also why ignoring the huge amount of boost in strength of Ash Pokemons? Like Pikachu shown much more powerful than like of Ursaring when he wasn't nerfed or Infernape with special blaze?

That's so easy to see Ash win against Paul even with lake acuity team when they stop making him look like a fodder trainer.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Staraptor literally defeated Honchkrow in the pokeringer contest cmon now. It may not be a proper pokemon battle but to me it's a sure way of showing which bird was ultimately stronger

 

[Leonhart]

I think it's a case of power creep settling in. It's more evident in this series given that we've seen several returning characters who have participated in major battles. Personally, I don't really mind one way or another since I don't usually keep tabs on battle records and such, so to me it's not a big deal.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Technically speaking the Elite 4 are harder than Champions now. Ash did better against Iris and Diantha then the Sinnoh Elite 4.

 

[ZarudeSandstorm]

Do you think the so-called "Unbeatable" Trainers like Elite 4 Members, Champions and other "Strong" Characters in the Anime have had a reduction in Power Level ever since the XY Series? Or do you think that the Main Cast Characters have simply gotten stronger. Ever since the XY Series we have seen Elite 4 Members & Champions getting pushed back or either defeated by normal trainers or trainers who never showed intention of becoming a Champion becoming one (Alain Vs Malva, Ash Vs Diantha, Ash becoming Alola League Champion, Iris becoming Champion of Isshu; Ash Vs Iris). Before XY, these guys were portrayed as untouchable beings ex: Cynthia Vs Paul, Alder Vs Trip, Ash Vs Drake (Hoenn), Ash Vs Agatha. that its hard to imagine for me that all of a sudden they could be beaten or pushed back. What are your thoughts?

i would say it depends on pokemon and not trainers since ash is a champion in alola and yet he was beaten by likes of bea. i think it depends on the pokemon more than trainer. trainers obviously matter bcuz of strategy which can be like champion level strategy which ash obviously possesses in journeys and others can have op strategy but i would say when people think of unbeatable champions and e4 i would think more of these pokemon of theirs and status of a person. if champion uses low level pokemon even with champion level strategy he would lose to high level pokemon even with non champion level strategy. ash is prime example he is champion of alola but he used riolu and farfetch'd and he lost to bea, if he used like incineroar and melmetal he would crush her etc

 

[Pokemonfan5]

Technically speaking the Elite 4 are harder than Champions now. Ash did better against Iris and Diantha then the Sinnoh Elite 4.

I think it's only because of Ash getting stronger and stronger than past generation except BW.

 

[Ragnarok4]

They should have done it a long time ago, an E4 should be at the level of a league winner, the anime just wanted to get longer.

Charizard, Greninja or Sceptile are at least level E4. The reason Ash defeated Iris with Dragonite and Drscovish, was because he used his head, not his power.