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Haunter VS Kadabra (024)

Leonhart

Imagineer
How sad that Misty, Brock, Jessie, and James did pretty much nothing throughout this entire arc.

Musashi, Kojirou, and Nyasu's lack of involvement here was expected given that they're comedic villains, though I did feel bad for Kasumi and Takeshi since both were taken hostage as dolls by Natsume.
 

Wednesdayz

Meowth fanatic
Musashi, Kojirou, and Nyasu's lack of involvement here was expected given that they're comedic villains, though I did feel bad for Kasumi and Takeshi since both were taken hostage as dolls by Natsume.

Basically, everyone who wasn't Ash or Sabrina got shafted here. This was one of the early Kanto saga's biggest flaws.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Basically, everyone who wasn't Ash or Sabrina got shafted here. This was one of the early Kanto saga's biggest flaws.

Yes, but given that the episode was all about Satoshi's struggles with locating Ghost, as well as showing the audience Natsume's backstory, it wasn't unreasonable that Takeshi and Kasumi did nothing themselves. The whole Yamabuki City mini-arc was meant for Satoshi and Natsume.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Ash winning by making Sabrina laugh with Haunter's help was ridiculous. We didn't even get to see Sabrina's new personality either since the ending happened too fast.

The ending of this episode went by pretty quick, so I was also disappointed that we didn't get to see more of Natsume's positive outlook. The fact that Ghost was able to get through to Natsume's real persona was a decent plot contrivance in hindsight, but the episode spent too much time beating around the bush.
 

Manchee

extra toasty
My biggest problem with Sabrina's whole arc was the little girl version of herself. I know it was meant to be creepy for the kids watching, but it was a very weird subplot. Including psychic powers into anything can get tricky, and being Pokémon it's forgivable, but I wasn't impressed with the overall story. I wish they made Sabrina creepier on her own and nixed the little girl all together.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
I don’t understand why some people and sources claim that Ash caught Haunter. He never did as it literally just followed him. Ash never used a Poke Ball to catch it. This is just like saying Jigglypuff belongs to Ash just because it followed him and his friends for quite some time. Sabrina was one twisted human though. I’ve always wondered if the people she turned into dolls could still feel pain f anywhere to be inflicted on them.
 

Manchee

extra toasty
I don’t understand why some people and sources claim that Ash caught Haunter. He never did as it literally just followed him. Ash never used a Poke Ball to catch it.

I think because it was for such a short amount of time (literally 2 episodes that they were together, lol) and most people were probably young when they last watched it. I know today was the first time I saw it in at least a decade, and I honestly didn't remember him not catching it. I'm not surprised that he didn't, but if he had versus hadn't, my memory would have still responded with, "Oh yeah, that's how it went" and I think a lot of people would think the same if they watched the episode.
 
When Ash had Haunter with him in the start I thought he'd beat Kadabra but then Haunter left and Ash was made to look like a buffoon. I think he should've beat Sabrina using Charmander or Squirtle at least.
 

gentwoer

Well-Known Member
I think they were playing up to the idea that the games at the time made the Psychic Pokemon uber. Probably why Sabrina was the only post-Cerulean gym where I was okay-ish with Ash not "earning" his badge.


The fact that the ghost pokemon never fought the psychic pokemon made it seem almost like the anime acknowledging the game's glitch in the programming.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
When Ash had Haunter with him in the start I thought he'd beat Kadabra but then Haunter left and Ash was made to look like a buffoon. I think he should've beat Sabrina using Charmander or Squirtle at least.

Satoshi was advised to seek a Ghost-type Pokemon by Natsume's dad, so he was simply sticking to his plan. He likely would have used something else if Ghost hadn't made Natsume laugh, however.
 

gentwoer

Well-Known Member
This episode was a pretty good conclusion to answering questions set up by Abra and the Psychic Showdown such as the bearded man's connection with Sabrina and the doll's connection with Sabrina and why Sabrina was crazy. It's too bad the conclusion to Ash getting his marsh badge was kind of meh? I dont know if they could have resolved the issue with Sabrina and had her fairly defeated in battle in a satisfying way. Maybe have Haunter defeated Kadabra properly in battle and then go ahead and make Sabrina laugh? This one won't bother me nearly as much as how he gets his Rainbow badge but its a shame Ash's fair earning of his Thunder Badge didn't set a new precedent for Ash actually earning his badges.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
This episode was a pretty good conclusion to answering questions set up by Abra and the Psychic Showdown such as the bearded man's connection with Sabrina and the doll's connection with Sabrina and why Sabrina was crazy. It's too bad the conclusion to Ash getting his marsh badge was kind of meh? I dont know if they could have resolved the issue with Sabrina and had her fairly defeated in battle in a satisfying way. Maybe have Haunter defeated Kadabra properly in battle and then go ahead and make Sabrina laugh? This one won't bother me nearly as much as how he gets his Rainbow badge but its a shame Ash's fair earning of his Thunder Badge didn't set a new precedent for Ash actually earning his badges.

That is the main problem of the OS. Ash only earned half of them fairly. He beat Brock by pure accident, his battle with Misty was never finished, he got the Rainbow Badge just because he saved Gloom, and this episode was perhaps the worst way he ever got a Badge. He literally had no real battle with Sabrina the second time around. Ash did earn the Earth Badge because TR were acting as the Gyn Leadersin Giovanni’s absence as he requested and refused to give Ash the Badge he deserved. If you use the argument that Ash never earned that Badge just because Jessie and James weren’t the official Gyn Leaders then you forget thatin the anime thaat during the Kanto season Misty really wasn’t a Gym Leader per say and Brock handed over the title to both his dad and brother. Gym Leaders seem to be able to give the title over to another Trainer whenever they feel it’s necessary.
 

KyogreThunder

Call of Fate
I disliked the fact Haunter was so unreliable in the battle against Kadabra. It is because of its antics that Misty and Brock were turned into dolls. I wonder if it is because Ash never actually caught it. Well, at least it managed to turn Sabrina back to normal.
4.5/10
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
gentwoer said:
This episode was a pretty good conclusion to answering questions set up by Abra and the Psychic Showdown such as the bearded man's connection with Sabrina and the doll's connection with Sabrina and why Sabrina was crazy.

It's funny because even though her father's identity was hinted at during the first Yamabuki City episode, I didn't figure out that the psychic man who helped Satoshi was her dad until the mid-point of this episode. I felt so slow.
 

PineapplePizza

Well-Known Member
and this episode was perhaps the worst way he ever got a Badge.
I'm sorry but no. Beating Sabrina in an unconventional way and saving her from herself is LEAGUES above being given the Rainbow badge because he saved Gloom even though he was losing to Erika or getting the Cascade Badge because he COULD have won if Pikachu actually respected him as a trainer. There was actually a justifiable in-story reason for Ash to get this badge by unconventional means. Of all the not-earning-by-winning-in-an-actual-battle badges he gets in the Kanto saga I took the least issue with this one.

It really is a tie between the Cascade and Rainbow badge of which was the most embarrassing gratitude/pity badge

He literally had no real battle with Sabrina the second time around.
Yes he did? Unless you mean when he ran away because Haunter went MIA

Ash did earn the Earth Badge because TR were acting as the Gyn Leadersin Giovanni’s absence as he requested and refused to give Ash the Badge he deserved. If you use the argument that Ash never earned that Badge just because Jessie and James weren’t the official Gyn Leaders then you forget thatin the anime thaat during the Kanto season Misty really wasn’t a Gym Leader per say and Brock handed over the title to both his dad and brother. Gym Leaders seem to be able to give the title over to another Trainer whenever they feel it’s necessary.

The problem is Team Rocket weren't COMPETENT trainers. Using the Boss's personal Pokemon and well cheating gave them a bit of an edge but they were still Team Rocket. Ash basically got an easy out for a final badge. Would he have won it if he had to face Giovanni? Not even if he had to face Mewtwo. I think Ash would have been creamed by a Mewtwo-less Giovanni. Misty was clearly a superior trainer to her sisters at least. In order of most deserved to least deserved badges I would rank them as

1. Thunder Badge- Actual strategy!
2. Soul Badge- I mean he didn't actually win the 2-on-2 that was agreed too but he did technically win by battling?
3. Volcano Badge- He won with a Pokemon that doesn't respect him and only fought because he respected Magmar as a Pokemon but he still won in a a battle
4. Marsh Badge- I already defended why I don't mind him beating Sabrina in a unique way as much as his other non-battle earned badges.
5. Earth Badge- Sure he won in a battle...to trainers he beats all the time because they suck as trainers. This might as well have been a freebie no matter how intense the anime tried to pass it off as
6. Boulder Badge- He was going to win I guess. Even if it was by a dumb fluke.
7. Cascade Badge- Ranked above the Rainbow badge only because he was probably going to win anyways if Team Rocket didn't interrupt the battle. Still the logic Daisy used "He would have won if Pikachu listened to him" was ass
8. Rainbow Badge- He was LOSING the battle. He wasn't going to win like the Boulder Badge or probably going to win like the Cascade badge. He didn't win by a bizarre technicality like the Marsh badge. He was LOSING to Erika and she gave him the badge out of gratitude for saving Gloom.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
PineapplePizza said:
I'm sorry but no. Beating Sabrina in an unconventional way and saving her from herself is LEAGUES above being given the Rainbow badge because he saved Gloom even though he was losing to Erika or getting the Cascade Badge because he COULD have won if Pikachu actually respected him as a trainer.

I mostly agree, although I can also understand why some people thought that Satoshi getting a Gym Leader to laugh was an anti-climactic way to win a badge, especially since he would've been turned into a doll had that not happened.
 
This was an extraordinary episode because of how full of twists and turns it was. When Ash got Haunter I thought it would be smooth sailing during the Saffron rematch, but then Haunter disappeared and Ash had to deal with Sabrina's powers again. Misty and Brock getting stuck as dolls was too bad since they didn't get involved in the rest of the plot. My favorite scene was Haunter's comedy routine and how he was able to make Sabrina laugh with his tricks. 8/10
 

keepitsimple

site of lies
I313.jpg


It's appalling that Surprised Pikachu Face became a meme instead of Surprised Ash Face

Anyway I only really posted because I wanted to express that, but yeah, episode good. Haunter is an icon and was robbed of being caught
 

Ubermuk

Sticky & Sweet
I'm sorry but no. Beating Sabrina in an unconventional way and saving her from herself is LEAGUES above being given the Rainbow badge because he saved Gloom even though he was losing to Erika or getting the Cascade Badge because he COULD have won if Pikachu actually respected him as a trainer. There was actually a justifiable in-story reason for Ash to get this badge by unconventional means. Of all the not-earning-by-winning-in-an-actual-battle badges he gets in the Kanto saga I took the least issue with this one.

How was Ash saving Gloom for literal death less of a reason for him to get the Rainbow badge than the reasoning that the writer used here for Ash's Marsh badge win? Ash managed to make Sabrina a good person again sure and that counts for a lot, but we're talking about him making an evil gym leader laugh juxtaposed with him saving a life in the Celadon gym.
 
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