Have Brock's chances of a cameo in BW dwindled?

[PokemonNation2000]

There has been no evidence for or against Brock getting a cameo, hence this thread is speculation without evidence. Besides, the answer is simple; why do just a cameo instead of fixing up the character so even more people would want an official return?

I'm indifferent in all honesty. DP really screwed up with Brock's character, and Bill Rogers would be voicing him, not Eric Stuart (both takes are substantially different for Brock- the flirting in particular). Given that much, not really caring about it, but not discounting it either.

Ah, but sometimes it takes a character's absence to prompt his/her fans to discuss the merits of that character. Correct me if I'm wrong, but female anime characters are generally talked about more than males except for main starring males. To top it off, Brock as a character has had fluctuations in his role and popularity, much like Ash due to their lengthy time spend on the show combined with fluctuations in the show's writing. Indeed its a daunting task to try and measure his popularity through anything but personal observations. I won't deny DP as being a bit of a bump for him and many of his fans. Despite that, the popularity of OS, AG to a fine extent, and characters with whom Brock was closest to are indicators that he is in good standing overall. Thus he is an excellent candidate for either a cameo or a full return. TPC is becoming less predictable as of late (which is good), so the question of if and when is honestly more difficult than determining whether he's popular.

I don't get how anyone can compare AG Brock to DP Brock: AG Brock was so much more well-developed, had cooler Pokemon and a better team IMO, and he was still fairly important. DP Brock is another story entirely and was a bump for me as a fan of Brock: I was appalled. That's not even going into what I feel Bill Rogers' voice was for the character during the Sinnoh Saga (to be fair, I felt the DP dub was worse than the BF dub for the protagonists' voice-overs: it's not Rogers alone I feel went downhill during that shift-- the DP dub to BW dub is a huge shift in the right direction for me, conversely).

 

[Hilda]

Brock has fans, just not numbering in the millions. Sorry, but that's ridiculous, to claim that he's super popular.

The only reason Brock is not sought out more than Dawn and Iris is because the things-created-by-Japan fandom loves to associate themselves with squeaky voiced girls. You know, the ones where every anime has at least 55 of who go ''Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh? Erephan-chan?'' . Truth be told, I like Iris a lot, but having a bit more fans (mind you, only because some/most of the newer fans haven't seen the originals, and the fact that many odler fans left leaving the Brock-fandom stage empty) doesn't take away the importance of Brock.

 

[Super-Staff]

The only reason Brock is not sought out more than Dawn and Iris is because the things-created-by-Japan fandom loves to associate themselves with squeaky voiced girls. You know, the ones where every anime has at least 55 of who go ''Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh? Erephan-chan?'' . Truth be told, I like Iris a lot, but having a bit more fans (mind you, only because some/most of the newer fans haven't seen the originals, and the fact that many odler fans left leaving the Brock-fandom stage empty) doesn't take away the importance of Brock.

What is the importance of Brock exactly? Cooking, flirting in a goofy manner, and giving 'advice' to the other characters? I honestly can't remember the last time he did something important or legitimately funny in DP other than maybe enter some competitions that he lost.

And regardless of what some Japanese fans like about the characters (there are fans over there who just like Dawn and the other girls because of their personalities too, you know), the fact still stands that Brock isn't as popular as the other characters.

 

[Bluelatios*]

The "importance" of any character is subjective. Truthfully all characters have some degree of importance simply because they are part of the entertainment. Various events and interactions could be discussed all day. But the bottom line is, a character either clicks for you, or they don't. There's little to nothing any of us can do to change each others likes or dislikes. There is no concrete way to "prove" certain characters popularity over others, because nobody can have perfect knowledge of every possibility, every factor, every fandom etc. What can be done is at least try to understand each others points of view and build intelligent discussion from it rather than shoot each other.

 

[Super-Staff]

The "importance" of any character is subjective. Truthfully all characters have some degree of importance simply because they are part of the entertainment. Various events and interactions could be discussed all day. But the bottom line is, a character either clicks for you, or they don't. There's little to nothing any of us can do to change each others likes or dislikes. There is no concrete way to "prove" certain characters popularity over others, because nobody can have perfect knowledge of every possibility, every factor, every fandom etc. What can be done is at least try to understand each others points of view and build intelligent discussion from it rather than shoot each other.

It's partly subjective, but there is still things to be taken into account such as the character's role, what s/he does in the story, how they interact with others, etc. It's a formula that helps people connect to characters and to stories. It's why some characters end up beloved and others end up being disliked by most of the audience. Brock is a character that tends to be disliked nowadays because hes simply not as interesting as the rest of the cast. He barely does anything of note anymore and many fans can't find themselves enjoying a character that isn't as heroic or cute or funny or has an actual role/purpose in the show. He was once amusing but since they continued the same jokes with him, he became boring and annoying, they also never bothered to give him time to shine or any sort of depth or even other humorous things for him to work with. Yes, I guess some people can still find the repetitive gags hilarious, but most people do not like that sort of thing.

 

[Hilda]

What is the importance of Brock exactly? Cooking, flirting in a goofy manner, and giving 'advice' to the other characters? I honestly can't remember the last time he did something important or legitimately funny in DP other than maybe enter some competitions that he lost.

And regardless of what some Japanese fans like about the characters (there are fans over there who just like Dawn and the other girls because of their personalities too, you know), the fact still stands that Brock isn't as popular as the other characters.

Oh, don't you try to pull off that, you will never succeed. Brock had a very important role, he was the voice of reason and the mature one who helped Ash anc co get through their journey. Think of it this way, Ash could of never be who he is without a character like Brock or Cilan being a big brother to him, but he can go on normally without Dawn and Iris.

I do not know where you live, but here if you go outside and ask a random person about what they know about Pokémon, at worst they will say. Pikachu, Ash, that red headed girl and the dark guy. He is known waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than characters like Dawn and May who both got cameos. The impact he gave through-out the years makes his importance very very high.

Again, the only reason there is less talk about him in the last few years is because people don't care much about characters who are the voice of reason, because they are usually silent. People rather hear a squeaky voice say ''HAJIMEMASHITE DOMO KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN!!!!''.

Still, Brock does have a lot of fans, they are just pushed aside and categorized as genwunners due to liking something about the first gen.

 

[Super-Staff]

Oh, don't you try to pull off that, you will never succeed. Brock had a very important role, he was the voice of reason and the mature one who helped Ash anc co get through their journey. Think of it this way, Ash could of never be who he is without a character like Brock or Cilan being a big brother to him, but he can go on normally without Dawn and Iris.

I do not know where you live, but here if you go outside and ask a random person about what they know about Pokémon, at worst they will say. Pikachu, Ash, that red headed girl and the dark guy. He is known waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than characters like Dawn and May who both got cameos. The impact he gave through-out the years makes his importance very very high.

Again, the only reason there is less talk about him in the last few years is because people don't care much about characters who are the voice of reason, because they are usually silent. People rather hear a squeaky voice say ''HAJIMEMASHITE DOMO KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN!!!!''.

Still, Brock does have a lot of fans, they are just pushed aside and categorized as genwunners due to liking something about the first gen.

But you just proved that 'most people' remember Brock as being a sidekick from Gen1, so yeah, most people who tend to like him are fans that knew him from way back in Kanto.

Also, 'mature and voice of reason' isn't that important of a role. Ash isn't an incompetant newb anymore and he hasn't been portrayed as such since, like, before Johto more or less. The other characters barely go to him for advice either. Ash 'needed' that in the first season or two, but after that, not so much. Cilan hasn't really done that 'give advice' thing that Brock did either. Actually, he and Iris act a lot more like equals to him than Misty and Brock did back in the Kanto-Johto days. Regardless, I rarely see people say 'he is the voice of reason' cited as why they like his character.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

But you just proved that 'most people' remember Brock as being a sidekick from Gen1, so yeah, most people who tend to like him are fans that knew him from way back in Kanto.

Also, 'mature and voice of reason' isn't that important of a role. Ash isn't an incompetant newb anymore and he hasn't been portrayed as such since, like, before Johto more or less. The other characters barely go to him for advice either. Ash 'needed' that in the first season or two, but after that, not so much. Cilan hasn't really done that 'give advice' thing that Brock did either. Actually, he and Iris act a lot more like equals to him than Misty and Brock did back in the Kanto-Johto days. Regardless, I rarely see people say 'he is the voice of reason' cited as why they like his character.

It's all subjective, though, character superiority, necessity, etc. That much is true for all things related to the anime series. We all simply have different tastes for our favorite characters and I do see Brock as the voice of reason. Ash has been acting like a "little kid" as Iris has been saying in the Unova Saga to many people, but I don't think so, but that's subjective.

The "importance" of any character is subjective. Truthfully all characters have some degree of importance simply because they are part of the entertainment. Various events and interactions could be discussed all day. But the bottom line is, a character either clicks for you, or they don't. There's little to nothing any of us can do to change each others likes or dislikes. There is no concrete way to "prove" certain characters popularity over others, because nobody can have perfect knowledge of every possibility, every factor, every fandom etc. What can be done is at least try to understand each others points of view and build intelligent discussion from it rather than shoot each other.

And here's the right answer. BlueLatios wins the gold medal.

 

[Hilda]

But you just proved that 'most people' remember Brock as being a sidekick from Gen1, so yeah, most people who tend to like him are fans that knew him from way back in Kanto.

Also, 'mature and voice of reason' isn't that important of a role. Ash isn't an incompetant newb anymore and he hasn't been portrayed as such since, like, before Johto more or less. The other characters barely go to him for advice either. Ash 'needed' that in the first season or two, but after that, not so much. Cilan hasn't really done that 'give advice' thing that Brock did either. Actually, he and Iris act a lot more like equals to him than Misty and Brock did back in the Kanto-Johto days. Regardless, I rarely see people say 'he is the voice of reason' cited as why they like his character.

That does not diminish his importance for the show. See, without Brock everything would be different, because he was there at the start and when Ash needed someone like him the most. His development would be different. Alas, they managed him wrong in the 4th gen, but I guess they needed to show the girl character a bit more since she was to stay short. This made him fall back to the background a lot, and I can some-how see him not getting as many new fans as the newer characters due to this, but importance? The girl characters get swapped every now and then anyway, would it mattered if Iris was 4th gen and Dawn was 5th gen? Or if a different girl were in their shoes? I don't think it would matter so much.

 

[Super-Staff]

It's all subjective, though, character superiority, necessity, etc. That much is true for all things related to the anime series.

I mean, I'm not saying it's awful to like Brock. Thing is, people keep claiming that he's popular and beloved, but he simply isn't. Therefore, it's why he hasn't had a formal cameo in the show. Dawn got one (and so did the other girls before her) because she has a huge fanbase. Heck, she stayed on for about nine episodes, which is a lot. Brock isn't given the same treatment because the writers don't think it's worth devoting time to a character that most either celebrated or didn't care at all for his departure.

That does not diminish his importance for the show. See, without Brock everything would be different, because he was there at the start and when Ash needed someone like him the most. His development would be different. Alas, they managed him wrong in the 4th gen, but I guess they needed to show the girl character a bit more since she was to stay short. This made him fall back to the background a lot, and I can some-how see him not getting as many new fans as the newer characters due to this, but importance? The girl characters get swapped every now and then anyway, would it mattered if Iris was 4th gen and Dawn was 5th gen? Or if a different girl were in their shoes? I don't think it would matter so much.

His importance as a 'voice of reason' is diminished after Ash isn't in need of a mentor, which occured after Kanto for the most part. The female characters get a lot of fans, not because they are interchangeable or just because they are cute (which I see that thrown around), it's because they actually have a purpose on the show, their humor isn't worn out (sometimes it does tread that line though), and they have more vibrant personalities. The same can be said for other characters as well.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

I mean, I'm not saying it's awful to like Brock. Thing is, people keep claiming that he's popular and beloved, but he simply isn't. Therefore, it's why he hasn't had a formal cameo in the show. Dawn got one (and so did the other girls before her) because she has a huge fanbase. Heck, she stayed on for about nine episodes, which is a lot. Brock isn't given the same treatment because the writers don't think it's worth devoting time to a character that most either celebrated or didn't care at all for his departure.

Oh, that's fine then, no problem. I think DP really did a number on Brock's character if you ask me. Shame too, he was a pretty interesting guy, but the writers didn't give him justice in my opinion (the only person I think has been given justice in the entire series is Tracey Sketchit, personally). Although I acknowledge everything I am saying is subjective as well: I mean, I've met someone who feels DP did Brock the best justice, so I can understand what you're saying though.

 

[Lucille]

This thread is basically; everyone on serebiiforums VS Super-Staff...

Brock should definitely reappear for a cameo but not in BW unless its at the end in a Kanto episode. It's easily do able and I'd love to see him hit on more females.

 

[Super-Staff]

Oh, that's fine then, no problem. I think DP really did a number on Brock's character if you ask me. Shame too, he was a pretty interesting guy, but the writers didn't give him justice in my opinion (the only person I think has been given justice in the entire series is Tracey Sketchit, personally).

It is. Brock had a lot of potential, but they squandered it away for some reason. Likely to let the other characters shine.

 

[Hilda]

His importance as a 'voice of reason' is diminished after Ash isn't in need of a mentor, which occured after Kanto for the most part. The female characters get a lot of fans, not because they are interchangeable or just because they are cute (which I see that thrown around), it's because they actually have a purpose on the show, their humor isn't worn out (sometimes it does tread that line though), and they have more vibrant personalities. The same can be said for other characters as well.

His importance is set in stone, you can't diminish the importance of your parents(or voice of reason person) did while you were growing up after leaving to live on your own. Yeah, you see them less, yeah their impact on your life diminishes, but their value never diminishes. But you gotta invite them to your house sometime!

 

[PokemonNation2000]

It is. Brock had a lot of potential, but they squandered it away for some reason. Likely to let the other characters shine.

Shame, I like the prodigal pervert. He's Ash's best friend in my eyes, "the voice of reason," and he'll always be awesome to me.

Don't get me wrong, I like Cilan as well. He has quite the exotic flavors, recipes, and aromas in his arsenal. xD.

Brock vs. Cilan cook-off would be great! lol.

 

[Super-Staff]

His importance is set in stone, you can't diminish the importance of your parents(or voice of reason person) did while you were growing up after leaving to live on your own. Yeah, you see them less, yeah their impact on your life diminishes, but their value never dimnishes.

Lol. You're acting like Brock is an actual person. No, he's a fictional character. He had his role before, but his characterization went in a different direction after a certain point. It doesn't make him anymore likable or important just because in the first season he was the one who gave Ash advice.

 

[Hilda]

Lol. You're acting like Brock is an actual person. No, he's a fictional character. He had his role before, but his characterization went in a different direction after a certain point. It doesn't make him anymore likable or important just because in the first season he was the one who gave Ash advice.

Dude, he didn't just give advice!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't try to make it seem like I said that. I am just connecting the logic with a real life aspect, and it seems it has worked since you reverted back to something you said before rather than adding something new. No matter what you think, Brock is very important. By that logic Dawn and stuff aren't very important just for being Ashs company while he explores a new region. Brock had a role, he taught me and other kids my age a lot. Pokémon might be a bit more commercial based now, which is why characters like him aren't needed much. In popularity he might be 10 now, and Iris might be 30, but in 10 years Brock will still be 10 and Iris will be 1-2.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

Lol. You're acting like Brock is an actual person. No, he's a fictional character. He had his role before, but his characterization went in a different direction after a certain point. It doesn't make him anymore likable or important just because in the first season he was the one who gave Ash advice.

He was actually developing quite nicely as a character in OS and AG and his Pokemon team grew more diverse and varied up until DP from what I've seen, IMO, of course. Yes, you're right, Brock is a fictional character, but over time I developed a bond with him, and I do miss him sometimes. It's like the original VAs for the English dub: I always miss them, even though I feel they're never coming back. Sure it sounds silly and pathetic, but what can I say? This anime really made up a lot of people's childhood(s), including my own, so it does leave its mark on you in a way. That includes the characters, settings, voices, music and everything really.

 

[Super-Staff]

Dude, he didn't just give advice!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't try to make it seem like I said that.

And yet...

Oh, don't you try to pull off that, you will never succeed. Brock had a very important role, he was the voice of reason and the mature one who helped Ash anc co get through their journey.

That was basically what you wrote. He helped Ash out via giving him said advice back in Kanto.

I am just connecting the logic with a real life aspect, and it seems it has worked since you reverted back to something you said before rather than adding something new. No matter what you think, Brock is very important. By that logic Dawn and stuff aren't very important just for being Ashs company while he explores a new region. Brock had a role, he taught me and other kids my age a lot. Pokémon might be a bit more commercial based now, which is why characters like him aren't needed much. In popularity he might be 10 now, and Iris might be 30, but in 10 years Brock will still be 10 and Iris will be 1-2.

Dawn and most of the other characters have actually had their own side stories going on alongside Ash's, they've had episodes centered around them and not just about the same subjects like most of Brock's have centered around either a love interest or about his profession. Or both.

And really? Brock taught you..? Yeah, you're connecting him way too much to a real person. He's an animated character. If anything, you learned from the show itself while the characters were just used to convey the messages the show wanted the viewers to take.

Also, in popularity, I would say most of the other characters will remain fairly memorable and popular especially since they are swapped out before they become stale. Whereas Brock will likely be forever remembered by a big chunk of the fanbase as being boring and having degraded. Similar to how Tracey is still remembered by many as the 'guy who replaced Brock', for example.

 

[Lorde]

Like I asked before, did anyone actually expect him to return? I thought Ash might go back to Pallet Town and meet some of his old friends there (Misty and Tracey), but I didn't even think of Brock. I just never considered him to be an important character. He was there to feed Ash and give advice every once in a while, but he wasn't completely integral to the plot of the story. I don't think little kids even think about him now that we have such a dynamic replacement for him, so I'm surprised that some people expected him to return.