have the current game mechanics made competitive play less fun?

[SBaby]

I don't know about BW2 since I haven't played it, but in BW, there were no pokemon with other EVs in the spots.

You still need to know in advance that they do that. If you're not using a guide, you'll never know that. I personally don't like using guides, because I feel like I'm cheating.

But with the other game I used as an example (sorry, I know this is sounding like one of those cleaning commercials where I'm comparing two brands; I still think Pokemon is a great game), I never needed a guide. You can always see your Aptitudes/EVs, so anything you do that changes them, you always know exactly what's increasing. Not to mention, in Pokemon you have to walk back and forth to get into a random battle. With the other game, one command, and you're exactly where you need to be.

It really comes down to two things.

1 - Let us SEE the EVs. This is probably the easiest step, and also the most important one. If they let us see the EVs like they let us see other stats, it would somewhat justify the wild Pokemon encounters.

2 - Come up with a better system for increasing the EVs (I should actually say 'more streamlined' instead of better). It's not hard to do. The guys as Nippon Ichi coded that system in a little over a DAY. So not only would it make EV training more streamlined, but it would probably help to get the new Gens released a little faster. And I'm pretty sure you won't find a single person on this site that would have a problem with getting new gens a little sooner.

 

[Nil Nuane]

Gamefreak really should just make IV's and EV's visible on pokemon. Would make things a lot more convenient, instead of having to use fancy stuff like iv calculators. Would also be more fair the some inexperienced players who don't even know about them.

But when you (Topic Creator) talked about the current game mechanics, I thought you were talking about how offensive based the metagame is, and how important entry hazards and weather are. I don't really like the gen 5 metagame.

 

[Simi2themax]

I really don't see anything less fun about the game mechanics, maybe because I don't battle competitively ... I don't know

 

[randomspot555]

You still need to know in advance that they do that. If you're not using a guide, you'll never know that.

That's part of the magic, that Pokemon can be more than a button mashing JRPG with a simplistic storyline if you want but it is not forced upon anyone and is never required to learn or even know of it's existence. It's nice that other games baby you and basically let you whip up stat changes on a whim or whatever, but I don't see why it is so much of a problem in Pokemon. EV training itself between Pokerus and the Power Items shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes assuming battle animations are turned off. And even less battling is required if you utilize vitamins, Join Avenue, and Wings.

 

[SBaby]

That's part of the magic, that Pokemon can be more than a button mashing JRPG with a simplistic storyline if you want but it is not forced upon anyone and is never required to learn or even know of it's existence. It's nice that other games baby you and basically let you whip up stat changes on a whim or whatever, but I don't see why it is so much of a problem in Pokemon. EV training itself between Pokerus and the Power Items shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes assuming battle animations are turned off. And even less battling is required if you utilize vitamins, Join Avenue, and Wings.

You're missing the point of what I'm saying though. I've seen games that have handled this mechanic far better. I'm not opposed to EV training in concept. It's the execution that I think could be improved.

 

[randomspot555]

You're missing the point of what I'm saying though. I've seen games that have handled this mechanic far better. I'm not opposed to EV training in concept. It's the execution that I think could be improved.

It seems like, from the description you provide, EV training in this other game is an integral part of the game, so integral that the game pretty much lets you easily modify stats at will. Whereas in Pokemon, EVs are part of a larger formula to seemingly make Pokemon be unique from each other and have seemingly unique stat growth.

I really don't see what is so horrible or wrong about people possibly having to go and do 5 minutes of reading to read about advanced mechanics, and by advanced, I mean addition. I don't see how that is a flaw and all you're doing is fixing something that isn't broken.

 

[SBaby]

It seems like, from the description you provide, EV training in this other game is an integral part of the game, so integral that the game pretty much lets you easily modify stats at will.

Not really. You can actually get through the whole main story without touching the system (in fact, one of the tutorials early on actually tells you this, in those exact words). But if you want to max out your characters, the game allows you to do so relatively easily. It takes time, but it's about as streamlined as I've seen it.

 

[Hidden Power]

It was a pain to EV train my starter Pokemon in Sp Atk during BW, that's for sure. Especially with the lack of berry planting game mechanics and along with it the EV-removing berries.

And after learning about competitive gameplay all I can see is that:

1) There's 25 natures, but only a couple of them matter.
2) The IV system is supposed to give you 32^6 different combinations for the sake of variety, but again only a few permutations matter.

And when I know of these few rules to get a exceptionally great Pokemon, I kind of want to apply some of those to my in-game team as well. So most of my Pokemon are either Adamant or Modest, with a few occasional deviation for tank setup.

I don't think Game Freak could have foreseen the extremes the gamers are willing to go to in order to have a 'perfect' team, and they might have realized that some of those mechanics they brought in (breeding, EV, IV) with the intention of fun and variety somewhat backfired, which might explain why the formula's always getting simplified with every generation.

 

[randomspot555]

It was a pain to EV train my starter Pokemon in Sp Atk during BW, that's for sure. Especially with the lack of berry planting game mechanics and along with it the EV-removing berries.

And after learning about competitive gameplay all I can see is that:

1) There's 25 natures, but only a couple of them matter.
2) The IV system is supposed to give you 32^6 different combinations for the sake of variety, but again only a few permutations matter.

And when I know of these few rules to get a exceptionally great Pokemon, I kind of want to apply some of those to my in-game team as well. So most of my Pokemon are either Adamant or Modest, with a few occasional deviation for tank setup.

I don't think Game Freak could have foreseen the extremes the gamers are willing to go to in order to have a 'perfect' team, and they might have realized that some of those mechanics they brought in (breeding, EV, IV) with the intention of fun and variety somewhat backfired, which might explain why the formula's always getting simplified with every generation.

Almost any notable video game with a multi-player option develops a hyper-competitive community that takes the play of the game in different directions. While they might not have envisioned it exactly, they'd be naive to think it wouldn't develop if the games were successful.

 

[Hidden Power]

Almost any notable video game with a multi-player option develops a hyper-competitive community that takes the play of the game in different directions. While they might not have envisioned it exactly, they'd be naive to think it wouldn't develop if the games were successful.

Not sure what your main point was in that last post. The 'extremes' I was talking about refers mainly to the barriers implemented by Game Freak in the form of RNG-based mechanics like the chances of getting the right nature and the right IVs. At the end of the day what competitive players mainly need is a way to rapidly adjust their team to the perfect battling condition, and yet many of the mechanics at the time of introduction specifically slows down that process. Want a specific nature? 1/25 chance in the wild or egg. Want 31 IV in at least two critical stats? Breed and throw a way tons of Pokemon. Want to check your IV? Nope, I'll give you a few cryptic messages instead.

Clearly Game Freak is trying to tone down the variability with all the assisting tools and whatsnot, but they don't seem to realize that a competitive player who wants to legitimately breed and train their own team would have to spend tons of hours grinding the levels anyway, and could do with fewer steps that slow down this process even further (for no good reason). The complex and elaborate way of dropping hints about IVs for example could have been displayed as a bar graph that displays additional variable stats with a different color from the base stats, such as in Devil Survivor. Or we could just remove IV altogether (by shifting the stats points to the EV pool and allowing customization of HP type), since it contributes the least to competitive play strategy IMO.