• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

High difficulty does not makes a game better.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Vini310

Well-Known Member
It's pretty much common knowledge that Pokémon fans are mad at Game Freak because the games are too easy, but if rom hacks and fan-games are anything to go by, then is SHOULD STAY EASY.

Based on all the rom hacks and fan-games I've played, the average fans' concept of difficult is simply making everything overleveled and overpowered by:
1) Giving trained Pokémon held items that the player has no acess to at that point in time or will never have period;
2) A horrendous level curve where normal trainers and wild Pokémon are very weak while boss trainers are very strong, causing a situation where your team is too strong to make grinding truly satisfactory, while also being too weak to defeat what lies ahead (like Red in Gen 2/HGSS, and the rom hack Pokémon Vega);
3) Not giving anything to ease player's life (In RSE/ORAS you get a TM for Bullet Seed relatively early, thus giving you more chances of winning if you didn't chose Treecko or Mudkip, plus Torchic learns Double Kick the exact moment it evolves into Combusken, but in a rom hack, you wouldn't get any of that: none of the starters would have strong moves unless you grind them until level 30, the wild Pokémon are all Normal-type and don't learn better moves either, no TMs nor healing items).

I'm not against high difficulty, unless if it's poorly done, and that's what I see the most in fan content. My fear is that, if Game Freak listens to THOSE fans, we will get a Yu-Gi-Oh! Reshef of Destruction situation. What that means? Well, imagine if in the next Pokémon game:

- At the start, you can only have ONE Pokémon in your team. Everything you catch wiull be sent to the PC automatically. You need all 8 badges to get a full team at ANY level.
- The Pokémon's level limit is tied to badges (0 badges: lvl 10 MAX; 1 badge: lvl 2 MAX etc);
- Poké Balls and status healing items aren't avaliable in any store and are incredibly hard to find, or even: THERE ARE NO HELAING ITEMS AT ALL, the Pokémon Center is THE ONLY WAY TO HEAL;
- There's a Trainer Level that limits the number of items and Pokémon you can have (no legendaries until you become a Champion, not EVEN VIA TRADING;
- Once a Pokémon is traded or released, it's blacklisted and the player CANNOT HAVE ACCESS TO THAT POKÉMON IN-GAME;
- Some Pokémon are unique to your save file and cannot be traded in ANY capacity;
- Multiplayer features locked until the post-game;
- Fainted Pokémon are lost forever (yes, they are blacklisted, i.e., cannot the caught again);
- Legendaries are AI controlled, NEVER LISTENING TO THE PLAYER, same goes to Pokémon obtained via trading.

And I'm pretty sure someone will amek a rom hack based o that, but anyway: does that sounds fair?
People who want difficult games have tons of rom hacks already, so just play those instead, and if you STILL feel the need for Pokémon games to be harder, than at least hope it's a fair type of hard.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
I think you're generalising and somewhat misrepresenting calls for more difficulty, and forgetting that there are more ways than just those employed in rom hacks to increase difficulty. I've never seen any of the people calling for more difficulty stating that they want level limits based on badges, only normal types to catch in the wild, team size limits based on badges, and so on. Coincidentally I have played Reshef of Destruction back in the days on GBA and I understand what you mean, that game was grossly imbalanced and unfair, but I just don't think equating calls for more difficulty in Pokémon with that sort of system is fair, and I'm saying that as someone who'd like some more difficulty in pokémon games.

What about perhaps a team size limit for Gym Battles to maximise your team size to the same number of pokémon as the Gym leader uses, an improved AI, a greater variety for battling formats employed by Gym battles (or the equivalent like Grand Trials) than just single battles? Why not have some of them in triples, or doubles, or even a rotation format? Why do the Elite Fours still only have five pokémon in their team, why do some of their pokémon not even have four moves? And why are all the battles at leagues still single battles? Why don't we get a Battle Frontier any more?

All I'm saying is, wanting more difficulty in a game is not the same as wanting an unfair or bad experience. It can be done much better than whatever stupid things rom hacks do. USUM for instance did a lot of things right on that front. It could have gone further beyond, but compared to Sun and Moon a lot of the trials became a bit harder, the Scald TM became available later, Sophocles's trial became a lot more interesting with the Charjabug puzzles, Rainbow Rocket was still suitable difficulty even during post-game with a lot of the villain bosses using legendaries, all of them having six pokémon, and Giovanni even mega evolving his Mewtwo. But for Alola I do miss dungeons where you actually have to look for the right way and where you can get a bit lost in, and I do miss puzzles. Aside from the Haina Desert and Sophocles's trial there really isn't anything on that front, I miss caves like the Whirl Islands and Mt. Mortar, or the Kanto game Seafoam Islands.

I also think you're selling GameFreak short a bit, and I'm saying that as someone who has often criticised GameFreak. GameFreak has a ton of experience in making Pokémon games and learning what works and what doesn't, and even with all the mistakes they're making with Sword and Shield like Dexit and ditching Z-Moves they do usually know better than to make games unfair like that.
 
Last edited:

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
I think at least allowing the player to pick the difficulty would be a good call. There's a lot of reason people like BW2 and this was certainly one of those even if the way they sold it wasn't quite the best (like locking the ability to pick a harder to only specific game).

Also, no one wants a super high difficult that demands hours os tedious grind but something like, you know, a challenge. Something that after you beat, you can feel satisfied with yourself.
 

TwilightBlade

Well-Known Member
High difficulty doesn't matter to me when I play the main games since I always just play at my own pace any way. I think that difficulty settings are vastly over-rated because the Pokemon games aren't meant to be that hard any way unless you enjoy competitive battling and in that case you can just battle online with other players.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
The option to choose difficulty should've been included in all games after B2/W2. While I personally don't care that much about how hard or easy the games are, I at least understand why some players would want a challenge when they play the games, and Game Freak choosing to make things too easy in recent games is a little bit strange to me.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
More difficult games don’t equate to better games. That much is right. But there are fan “ideas” that honestly handle difficulty way better than GF had as they’re closer to the medium ground of “not too easy or not too hard”.

There are fans who think giving Brock 6 Pokémon with varied movesets is good game design (it’s not) but I feel GF is a completely different extreme where later Gym Leaders have the same amount as the 4th, shallow movesets, and rarely any strategy.

I don’t like the argument of “if fans can create more difficult games, play those”. They’re either slightly altered versions of existing games or games with new Pokémon and characters that don’t give the feel on an actual Pokémon game. The argument makes less sense since GF have shown to have good ideas with difficulty as shown with B2W2.

I’m not asking for Pokémon: Dark Souls Edition where you can’t heal and every trainer has a competitive team. GF is just isn’t honing on their difficulty. Give more Pokémon hold items, use more competent movesets, and have actual strategies isn’t something that should mostly be relegated to fan games
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
The option to choose difficulty should've been included in all games after B2/W2. While I personally don't care that much about how hard or easy the games are, I at least understand why some players would want a challenge when they play the games, and Game Freak choosing to make things too easy in recent games is a little bit strange to me.
Seconded. It makes no sense to not do so. Have an option for those who want to play through it normally, one for those who want more of a challenge and one for those who want a more casual playthrough.
 

Alphaeon

Member
The very easy difficulty of the latest games is my only complaint about them. However, I certainly wouldn’t want rom hack difficulty added to them. I just miss having some of the struggle of the older games.

I’ve been playing Pokémon for 20 years, and to this day when I go back and play Fire Red, I’ll STILL get my ass handed to me by my rival sometimes. When I play Emerald some of the gym leaders (especially the twins) will absolutely throttle me and force me to rethink my team. I remember a couple rough battles with Team Galactic admin too, and Cynthia of course.

That’s the type of difficulty I was looking for, not crazy fanmade stuff. KyogreThunder’s idea of trainers having larger teams or Pokémon with more varied/surprising movesets sounds awesome. Because it’s not like those are things you can’t counter, you’d just have to put a little more thought into it.

I’ve never played Black 2 or White 2, they had a way for players to choose difficulty?
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Ok, first of all your title reads almost like clickbait and doesn't represent the rest of your post. You aren't complaining about difficulty in general (which demonstrably does make a game more engaging to a certain rather large audience), you're complaining about specific fan ideas and suggestions that don't actually add difficulty in a meaningful way.

Based on all the rom hacks and fan-games I've played, the average fans' concept of difficult is simply making everything overleveled and overpowered by:
1) Giving trained Pokémon held items that the player has no acess to at that point in time or will never have period;
2) A horrendous level curve where normal trainers and wild Pokémon are very weak while boss trainers are very strong, causing a situation where your team is too strong to make grinding truly satisfactory, while also being too weak to defeat what lies ahead (like Red in Gen 2/HGSS, and the rom hack Pokémon Vega);
3) Not giving anything to ease player's life (In RSE/ORAS you get a TM for Bullet Seed relatively early, thus giving you more chances of winning if you didn't chose Treecko or Mudkip, plus Torchic learns Double Kick the exact moment it evolves into Combusken, but in a rom hack, you wouldn't get any of that: none of the starters would have strong moves unless you grind them until level 30, the wild Pokémon are all Normal-type and don't learn better moves either, no TMs nor healing items).

These aren't my concepts of difficulty. Making a game grindier or unfairly stacking NPC's teams against the player are not organic sources of difficulty. Improving the terrible NPC AI to make better decisions and be slightly less predictable, giving them competent teams later in the game with movesets that actually make sense, and making important NPC's team levels scale to your own party's level to prevent overleveling in a fairer, but non-bypassable way are all ways to introduce genuine difficulty that doesn't come from artificial sources like grinding or stacked teams.

Lastly I think difficulty should be optional, I.E. a "hard mode" setting accessible when a save is created. They experimented with this in Gen 5 but apparently GameFreak doesn't understand the core concept of a difficulty setting, because the easy/hard mode in B2/W2 barely change anything at all, and you need to beat the game in normal mode to unlock them (in the case of easy mode this is particularly silly; if you can beat the game in normal mode why would you need an easy mode?).
 

Ophie

Salingerian Phony
The major takeaway is this: Pokémon games are, for the most part, aimed at little kids, and to a lesser extent, non-kid people who have never played an RPG before. They have to make them easy and straightforward enough for the kids to beat and feel accomplished, more so today than in the past, as kids now have lots of options for gaming, and if something is proving to give them too much resistance, they're likely to turn to something else that won't. That, if you ask me, is the real dilemma here. How do you keep kids engaged in Pokémon when they could just as easily go back to playing Minecraft, where there is little to no difficulty and the entire game world is their playground to arrange as they see fit? In the 90s, there weren't quite so many options, but there are now. The average tenacity of a kid at a video game is a lot lower now because there are video games available today that let kids feel like gods.

And even without that taken into consideration, every main series Pokémon game is going to get an influx of people who have never done turn-based battling before, struggle to learn type matchups, and might get confused if the path forward isn't directly in front of them. Pokémon Let's Go! is a good example of this; I've met people who transitioned from Pokémon GO to Let's Go!, and they STRUGGLED. Big time. That's the thing that Game Freak's people know that the ROM hack people don't, and I would say the same thing about many fans, including some here on these forums. They remember what it's like to be a beginner and the sort of games that would appeal to them.

Personally, I liked what was done in Generation III, namely that the main games were of standard difficulty, and the side games on the GameCube from Genius Sonority were of much higher difficulty. On the other hand, nobody made that obvious, and I could remember some people who had a GameCube but not a Game Boy Advance getting frustrated at Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon XD and giving up. (I don't know if they're the same people who later turned to Pokémon GO.) In the absence of that, difficulty settings would be nice, provided that picking an easier difficulty DOES NOT lock you out of content and DOES NOT look down on people who pick that easier difficulty. The last thing you want is to alienate the new blood, as Pokémon subsists on the "fleeting demographic." They count on new audiences joining as previous ones leave. Some will stay, but most are replaced from year to year, generation to generation.

Of course, there's always the Shin Megami Tensei games if you want a monster collection game that's really really hard. Shin Megami Tensei V is being developed for the Switch.
 

KingstonUponHulbury

Well-Known Member
Pokémon's always had two difficulty settings. You'll find them in the options; just change 'Switch' to 'Set'.

Ok, I'm being slightly vexatious there, but it really does add quite a bit of extra crunch to battles that are already designed to be 'hard' - having to take at least a moderate hit every time you need to switch out against an E4 member's type coverage builds up really fast. If you've self-imposed a failure state, such as in a Nuzlocke, you'll have some very tough decisions to make.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
I've played set since I started playing competitively, originally under the belief that it would be good practice for competitive play (in hindsight, this really wasn't true to be honest) and now simply out of habit.

I also don't think many people would look down on someone for using a lower difficulty setting, nor do I think the opinion of someone who does is worth worrying about. If you enjoyed the game, that's what counts; someone else's opinions on how you played it are irrelevant.
 

MrJechgo

Well-Known Member
Has there been any sign of trainers playing smarter, such as using Pokémon in the same fashion as competitive play? Maybe that's the best way to make the game more difficult. I'd like to remind you that it's possible to defeat Lance's Dragonite with a Weedle, because the game will make use a super-effective move, even if it's not an attack. That "glitch" caused Dragonite to spam Agility (a Psychic-type move) all the time. I feel like trainers only focus on attacking the player, with the rare occasions of building power (ex.: Defense Curl + Rollout) and switching to better Pokémon. In other times, especially in the Stadium games, they relied on gimmicks.
 

NoahVGC

Well-Known Member
Pokémon is disappointing with how easy it has become, because it then becomes mindless gameplay, and no thought is needed even for gyms on team synergy etc. It's such a shame for older fans who aren't below 12 years old. But I suppose you can always make it harder yourself by playing it nuzzlocke or something. I prefered it when they didn't tell you if a move was effective or not. You had to learn and study it. Especially in online battles nowadays.
 

NoahVGC

Well-Known Member
But one of biggest disappointment for me is how easy the battle tower is . It use to make you restart if you lost and got progressively harder with bigger rewards. Now it's just so simplistic anybody can just borrow a team and click a button and get to stage 100 blindfolded.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Hi, talk about roms is not allowed here on the forums. Also, please do not bump threads that are over 60 days old. Thanks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top