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HM Debate

S

Sidewinder

Ours is the Fury
It depends on how I'm playing.

Last time I played through platinum, I used an hm slave for most of the game. Well, until I beat the main storyline and elite four. Spent the next hundred or so hours chaining for shinys. When I started chaining I switched over to three hm slaves so I had every hm move if the situation called for it while I was chaining.

Though if I'm playing a new game (like Black when it first came out) I distribute hm's to my team so I can have spots for six instead of five and a slave
 
G

gliscor&yanmega

Well-Known Member
With Black and White, I have no issues with it anymore, we only needed an HM move once to advance the story, much better then in the pass, also Strength would keep the boulder where it gets pushed so you don't have to use it all that much. Surf and Fly I think are decent enough moves in-game so I don't see much of an issue with those moves, Fly has always been optional though, it makes getting around easier but you never needed it I don't believe.

Black and White also had only six HM moves, which only Kanto having fewer then it, but Dive was pretty much just for one location for some items, plus again, the HMs were all optional aside from Cut needed once, so it's overall the best in terms of HM handling as you could pretty much go the whole game without getting to annoyed having to carry a HM Pokemon around all the time.

I hope they keep it the way Black and White had it, while I don't mind using HMs, I do prefer having my six Pokemon on my through out the game, although I don't mind sending one or two away for some side quests. Also, I can always just teach one of my team members an HM then remove it afterwards once I get to the Move Deleter.
 
D

Dragonicwari

Artistically angry
Last time I played through diamond I think I had gastrodon and gyarados to not be over grass or electric weak. I find having an hm slave or two will lead to less level grinding though, so I don't mind to much
 
E

Enjyu

Made In China.
All you need on a team is pelliper. Surf fly waterfall and dive in 1 pokemon! Call 1-800-567-8910 to order. If you call within the next ten minutes we will give you a second one for double the price!
 
A

AmusedMilk

Oh, hey, Big Zam!
I usually have a slave, but not all HMs are bad in battle. (ex: Surf.)
 
T

thekorean

Well-Known Member
Only really usable HM for anything other than outside battle is Surf. Nice 95 power Special attack.

Scald is better, but still.
 
W

Wild Dragonite

Ralts Evo Tree Fan
HMs are honestly some good options early game. I mean, I'd throw Surf onto a Pokemon that doesn't learn a more powerful water attack until much later...
 
Cerex

Cerex

Well-Known Member
HMs aren't bad moves, they just are not great moves; and their entire purpose was simply a means to direct the player and set the course of the game. Black/White demonstrated that you could develop a game and story without the requirements for HMs. So hopefully Game Freak does away with them as moves that cannot just simply be forgotten.

Actually if Game Freak really wants to be innovative (and I know that isn't their natural cup of tea) they could do away with special moves required to get through geographic hurdles. Ranger showcased that certain Pokemon could be coded to be used to travel with and others to move boulders. Such a system would actually get rid of the bizarre inconsistencies like really tiny Pokemon being able to use surf.
 
K

Katipunero

Eye in the Sky
HMs aren't all that bad. Some are actually pretty good moves such as Surf and Waterfall. If I'd actually change something about HMs, it would be the fact that you can't instantly delete them when you learn a new move.
 
Owl

Owl

G-Rank Hunter
The only complaint I have with Hm's is that you can't cut the grass in every game. >:/
 
A

Angeltripper

♥ Ace ♥
HM's are annoying since you can't delete them...here is a list of the useless HMs:

Dive
Cut
Whirlpool
possibly Rock Smash
 
W

Wolf Prince

Lycan Seraph
what i don't like is carrying HM slaves, i do like that they don't break after one use but i hate the can't be able to forget them easily. HMs are pokemon consuming.
 
M

Mew King

It's black magic!
I did use Dive successfully with Ludicolo before in Generation 3. We had a one legendary per team rule and so I had Kyogre. With Ludicolo, I had Dive, Toxic, Leech Seed, and Giga Drain. The strategy is pretty simple. With the rain out, I had Rain Dish activated, add in Leech Seed (and I think it also had Leftovers) and you got a monsterous healing machine. Dive allows me to stall one turn. Giga Drain allows for some emergency healing (or when like a water type is out on the field). Plus, toxic is always plain old fun with a staller.

I do admit Cut, Rock Smash, Whirlpool, and Defog are bad even in game. Cut is a decent move at the start of the game...but that's also true with Tackle and moves like that. I actually kept Tackle on my Stoutland for a while though... It was good for when I just needed to weaken something to catch it. But, I digress, Cut is a movie to me that looks like it should stay as it is as just an early game move. Rock Smash was always pretty bad both in game and competitively. If Rock Smash lowered defense maybe two stages with 100% success rate it would work like a Screech that can do damage. That would make Rock Smash better in a similar way to why Mud Slap is better than Sand Attack (as long as you use them on the types that aren't immune to it). Whirlpool is like a water typed Fire Spin, nothing in particular to see here. Defog only has a single situational use for a single situational attack; dispelling mist. I did use the other part of it a couple of times (stupid Double Teaming guys) but you won't see that in competitive play. I can think of one way to actually make it good enough for competitive play: if it actually could dispel any weather effect. Not like Rayquaza where he just ignores it, but actually getting rid of any weather in the battle.

Now for the others, Strength, Rock Climb, and Fly saw use in game. Especially in Generation 4 when I didn't have unlimited TMs, they were decent moves to be used on in-game teams (not good, but decent). Especially, Fly. I still used Fly on all my birds but that's because there aren't many good flying moves... Meanwhile, Surf and Waterfall are great competitively.

I do wish there was a way you could delete HMs though. They didn't allow that before because you could deposit it and then be left stuck, but now, especially with the item PC gone, we could always overwrite the move with the necessary HM
 
G

gliscor&yanmega

Well-Known Member
bobyjoe5000 said:
HM's are annoying since you can't delete them...here is a list of the useless HMs:

Dive
Cut
Whirlpool
possibly Rock Smash
Click to expand...

You can delete them though, with the help of the Move Deleter that is.
 
W

Wild Dragonite

Ralts Evo Tree Fan
Atratus

Atratus

Antimatter Trainer
I think that Hidden Machines are an important core of the gameplay. They give you the feeling of progression in your adventure. Unfortunately, other than Fly and Surf, they are not very good for that since they don't give you the same ability of exploration. Having HM on a team mate is not that bad, especially now that moves can be easily taught again and again.

Just please, stop forcing us to have all the HM with us on every single victory road. It's not challenging, it's just annoying.
 
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