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Hoenn Region Discussion Thread

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.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
I do get frustrated with people that complain about the experience share. Just turn it off. I got it, did a few battles,noticed it was on then turned it off. I didn't want my in game team to get their EV's messed up, and if made a world of difference. I definitely don't want them to get rid of the experience share because post game it was fantastic for ev training and leveling up Pokemon. It would be a shame to get rid of it just because some people think it makes the gamd to easy. Just turn it off, literally all you have to do. But please, don't take away a great feature because some people didn't like it but left it on their whole game, like some kind of personal torture. Without the experience share, I actually find the game some what challenging. And, as a Nuzlocke, with no experience shsre , its the hardest one I've ever done!!! And I've done gen three and gen four in comparison. I've restarted my nuzlocke three times for dying. It makes Grant the baddest gym leader ever.

I think we also have to be careful of hind sight bias when we talk about the difficulty of previous games. In some ways, they are uncomparable. Sure, gen I and Gen II seemed harder to me when I played them. That was also before the physical special split with individual moves, before I knew what EV's where, before I realized that fighting type was actually good, and, you know I was also EIGHT years old! I spammed surf, flamethrower, earthquake and Psychic, not for strategy, but because my Pokemon looked so damn cool. I had no idea about the benefiets of stat boosts or things like weather teams and trick room teams. I had a crocodile, it bit things. I was surprised that at the elite four, just biting things wasn't working anymore.

As I got older, some of the games seemed to get easier. But that's also because I was learning how to play them. I'm a pro now! I breed, understand combo moves, teams with appropriate type coverage, in know terms like sweeper, wall, paraflinching, and I can implement those strategies in game. Plus, X/Y was crawling with pokemon, so you had a lot of different types early on to choose from. Brock was hard, because if you started with chsrmander, your only real chance was mankey or a nidoran with a fighting move. X/Y gave us what we wanted... Hundreds of Pokemon to catch! But it also meant that coming to the gym leaders ,we had more than what we needed to beat them. If you want harder games, it's not just experience share. Their is so much you have to change, and a lot of it will be features you like.

I do wish they had bigger teams for bosses though. I miss facing full teams against rivals and the like. I'm also not trying to say they haven't gotten easier in some ways, I just also think that they haven't gotten as easy in comparison to older games as we think they have. It's all about perspective. I'm sure they games would be harder again if we went back to gen three when all the water type moves where special attacks. But no one wants that either. I'm glad Pokemon has an extensive online community, so that I can battle other people with great strategy and understanding of the games. (Which is why ORAS secret base gyms will be so boss!)
 
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Digitalkaiser65

Dark Master
I can't say I agree with games being harder because of being younger or not knowing the game.
I was 19 when platinum was released and I found it sufficiently challenging. (I am old.) I think I had a solid base knowledge of Pokemon by 3rd gen to really feel confident. X and Y was just much easier then the other games in this series, by a long shot. With, or without an exp share.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Although the Exp. share definitely makes the game easier, you can't blame it for making the game too easy. It seems most of the people who say it was too easy kept it on the whole game. You can't blame the game if you're using a leveling crutch the whole time. I turned the Exp. Share off pretty soon after getting it. It's fine to criticize the in-game teams but using the Exp. Share is the individual person's choice.

Technically it is optional, but the problem is they designed the pacing around it. If you follow the game exactly as it was meant to be played from beginning to end you'll end up around the same level as Diantha. And if you explore everything in the game, you end up at Lv. 80 by the end.

Teams sizes I'll give you but what difference does it make when the other pokémon in a CPU's party is a repeat? "Oh man, that second pidgey almost floored me!" said no one ever.

Exactly, so why would they even bother limiting team size in the first place? It's completely pointless. Also, we have way too many Pokemon at this point for them to have to stoop to using duplicate species.

The game has always told you where to go, I don't understand this notion that the games were any more explorable prior to Gen V. It really wasn't. Did everyone forget the angry thirsty guards that blocked your path as well as the Snorlax(s) in the Kanto saga? Not to mention some places requiring HMs to get to... It's always been a linear game.

It's not. In Kanto, there were several split paths in the region that gave you options on where to go. Do I go to Fuchsia City by Rt. 12-15 or Rt. 16-18? Do I go to Cinnibar via Rt. 19 and 20 or Rt. 21? All of the past regions gave you some kind of options throughout the game. Unova and Kalos didn't it was basically "You're finished with this area? Okay, here's the next one". It was basically one straight shot from beginning to end, the game had one set path for you to take and never let you deviate from it.

They're not making it "kid friendly", they're making it "consumer friendly". They said they brought in all these things because they feel people today don't have as much time to do stuff. Blame Apple for making this world completely have ADD.

Which is a complete load of crap. Reducing team size isn't really going to make a difference in this, and the regions didn't get any shorter by limiting your options.

Besides, it actually makes absolutely no difference. Know why I can say that? I hoarded Exp. Shares in my W2 and gave them to each of my party pokémon and I never once felt it having a negative effect on the pacing. It was just a smoother experience because I didn't have to waste time swapping out some under leveled pokémon to get experience just because they decided to give them to us near the end of the game.

Except the 6th gen Exp Share gives out more Exp than if everyone in your party holds an Exp. Share in 5th gen.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
I can't say I agree with games being harder because of being younger or not knowing the game.
I was 19 when platinum was released and I found it sufficiently challenging. (I am old.) I think I had a solid base knowledge of Pokemon by 3rd gen to really feel confident. X and Y was just much easier then the other games in this series, by a long shot. With, or without an exp share.

Oh, I agree for the most part. I admit the games are easier, especially X/Y, but I do also think that part of the huge differences we perceive is perspective, and I do think playing as a child holds some sway in our opinion (but definitely not all). Sort of a nature verses nurture argument. Its a little bit of both and a couple hundred other things as well. We're all looking for that one thing that made it easier, but its a lot of different things.

Technically it is optional, but the problem is they designed the pacing around it. If you follow the game exactly as it was meant to be played from beginning to end you'll end up around the same level as Diantha. And if you explore everything in the game, you end up at Lv. 80 by the end.

Can you elaborate on this bolt, I don't quite understand what you mean by this. Even if they designed the pacing around the experience share, doesn't that mean, by default, that turning it off will automatically make your game harder? In my personal experience, that was the case.

Which is a complete load of crap. Reducing team size isn't really going to make a difference in this, and the regions didn't get any shorter by limiting your options.
I agree, I'd love to face bigger teams, at least for gym leaders and rivals, but facing a larger team would make it a longer game, in the long run. Wouldn't really make a difference at all if it was just boss battles, like team flare or gym leaders that got bigger teams, but if you started expanding the teams of NPC's and team flare and gyms and everyone aike, if would take you longer to finish the game, simply because you had to add on the few seconds, or in some cases minutes, it would take to beat that extra Pokemon or two and times it by 200.

They streamlined the games for today's consumers who have other games to play and things to do. We got a less satisfying plot. It felt rushed. It was disssapointing. But I can see why they did it, and to me it makes sense business wise. I don't like it, but it makes sense. Todays youth and gamers don't have the same attention span we do. If it gets too hard, or starts taking too long, they'll pick up another game and Nintendo looses a Pokemon consumer.
 
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PlayinWithFire

Hex Trainer
Sootopolis City looks like a place where dragon types seek refuge. Also I'm really curious about the dark cloud/figure up at the top is Giratina going to make an apperance or are we getting a shiny Rayquaza event with its mega stone?? I'm leaning more towards shiny Rayquaza but I wouldn't mind if Giratina was in Hoenn I love that renegade Pokemon. The graphics really bowled me over and I hope that we get a poster of the region at pick up or before because I wouldn't mind hanging that up with my Kalos region poster. The hype for ORAS is off the charts!!
 

Lorde

Banned
Sootopolis City looks like a place where dragon types seek refuge. Also I'm really curious about the dark cloud/figure up at the top is Giratina going to make an apperance or are we getting a shiny Rayquaza event with its mega stone?? I'm leaning more towards shiny Rayquaza but I wouldn't mind if Giratina was in Hoenn I love that renegade Pokemon. The graphics really bowled me over and I hope that we get a poster of the region at pick up or before because I wouldn't mind hanging that up with my Kalos region poster. The hype for ORAS is off the charts!!

Why does that dark cloud have to be an accessible area though? It could simply be symbolic of Hoenn's turmoil during the weather crisis imo. I just don't really get the hype over some clouds.
 

PlayinWithFire

Hex Trainer
Why does that dark cloud have to be an accessible area though? It could simply be symbolic of Hoenn's turmoil during the weather crisis imo. I just don't really get the hype over some clouds.

Its something that came to mind when I first saw it but I like your opinion of it representing Hoenn's turmoil and I'm guessing that people are hyped about the game and are speculating every detail from the maps or images that we get from GF. Every opinion is fair game :)
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
At first I thought the dark clouds were an island, now I can see they are a storm. I kind of agree that they are just supposed to be representations. I think the storm is supposed to be Kyogres primal ability primordial sea, and the lens flare is supposed to be Groudon's Desolate land, representing the harsh rain and harsh sun. Doesn't mean they aren't anything, or aren't covering something up, but just my two cents.

Overall, I must say I'm really impressed with this map. Its so beautiful and detailed, its way better than the Kalos map or any other map. I love it, and its totally added to my hype for the game.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Can you elaborate on this bolt, I don't quite understand what you mean by this. Even if they designed the pacing around the experience share, doesn't that mean, by default, that turning it off will automatically make your game harder? In my personal experience, that was the case.

A bit, but you end up 10 levels higher than everything if you keep it on, so I don't think leaving it off will make it ridiculously difficult. Also, they really should've had some kind of disclaimer that made it clear that it makes the game easier.

I agree, I'd love to face bigger teams, at least for gym leaders and rivals, but facing a larger team would make it a longer game, in the long run. Wouldn't really make a difference at all if it was just boss battles, like team flare or gym leaders that got bigger teams, but if you started expanding the teams of NPC's and team flare and gyms and everyone aike, if would take you longer to finish the game, simply because you had to add on the few seconds, or in some cases minutes, it would take to beat that extra Pokemon or two and times it by 200.

Well I care more about the boss battles than the NPCs anyway.

They streamlined the games for today's consumers who have other games to play and things to do. We got a less satisfying plot. It felt rushed. It was disssapointing. But I can see why they did it, and to me it makes sense business wise. I don't like it, but it makes sense. Todays youth and gamers don't have the same attention span we do. If it gets too hard, or starts taking too long, they'll pick up another game and Nintendo looses a Pokemon consumer.

Most of this crowd doesn't really care for anything that isn't on an iPhone in the first place. They don't need to go to these extremes to please these people.
 

Digitalkaiser65

Dark Master
Most of this crowd doesn't really care for anything that isn't on an iPhone in the first place. They don't need to go to these extremes to please these people.

THIS! The never need to dumb down the pokemon games, they should know by now that the people who buy them want something more then iphone games and in app purchases.
 

DotKU

Champion
When I was referring to the difficulty setting, I meant a rise in AI difficulty not just levels.

Anyway, GF claims that XY were just testing the waters so hopefully the future games show that.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
A bit, but you end up 10 levels higher than everything if you keep it on, so I don't think leaving it off will make it ridiculously difficult. Also, they really should've had some kind of disclaimer that made it clear that it makes the game easier.

Only in the same sense that they should've made the same sort of disclaimer for the use of Megas or (to a lesser extent, though still worthy of note) the Lucky Egg when it became a free handout in Gen V. I'd think common sense is the disclaimer in a case like this.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
THIS! The never need to dumb down the pokemon games, they should know by now that the people who buy them want something more then iphone games and in app purchases.

I really hate to be the Debbie Downer here, and while your opinions and thoughts are valid, its not quite fact. I work with kids, its part of what I do, and at least in my general area in Canada, there is no split between iPhone gamers and gamers. All kids game and game on multiple consoles. They play iPhone and DS and Xbox and PC and Facebook. They just like to game, period. We can't generalize and say that those who want faster games don't want Pokemon. Its not true. Yes. It makes our Pokemon games shorter and less quality, yes I don't like it, but its not so cut and dry, its really not. Most of the kids I know have the Pokemon games and buy them, but they need them to be fast and easy. They didn't grow up on it like most of us. I know I don't know everything, nor do I like everything Nintendo does, nor does everything they do work out for them, but they put tons of money into market research to help determine the decisions they make. Just because I don't like it, doesn't mean it didn't still make good business for them, or just because they did market research, doesn't mean their predictions came true. Even with the worst decisions, they made them for a reason that made sense at the time.
 

The Red Thunder

Backwards thinking?
Only in the same sense that they should've made the same sort of disclaimer for the use of Megas or (to a lesser extent, though still worthy of note) the Lucky Egg when it became a free handout in Gen V. I'd think common sense is the disclaimer in a case like this.

Thank you.

Pokémon games have ALWAYS been easy. The older ones were only more "difficult" because options were significantly more restricted than they are now. Every generation, people complain that the series just gets easier and easier, but in reality, it's more along the lines of recurring players are getting more experienced as time goes on, are getting more options, more resources, and their personal experiences with the game are becoming easier as a result.

I just finished a playthrough of Sapphire, and just to spice things up, I restricted myself to using mostly Pokémon that I've never leveled before, must stick to a single region's Pokémon, and they must be traded in from another game at level 5. Some might say that trading them in makes the game easier, but it actually didn't. For the first two badges, between levels 10 and 20, my Pokémon mostly didn't listen to me, and it made for some frustrating moments. And, since I never really did any grinding, by the time I reached the Elite Four, I was about 15 levels UNDER Steven's Metagross. I went back and leveled up to 55, grinding for the first time, and even then, Steven had me going for a bit.

People CAN make the games harder for themselves if they want to. They just mostly want the game made harder FOR them, rather than doing it for themselves.
 

Jonessodaco.Chris

Is Back Finally!
How easy would all of your complaints be fixed if they just had levels of game play. Like at the start pick beginner. intermediate. hard. and Expert. Why can't they do that!?
 
I really never thought Pokemon games were that difficult hence why I play them so frequently. This is coming from someone who has a lot of trouble with Zelda games. I'm not that good at games and I never was. Yet I've always been fine at Pokemon games. I had trouble playing blue because I was 6 years old AND COULD BARELY READ and yet it only took me about two months. This isn't me bragging about how I'm some kind of pokemon prodigy, far from it. It's just that this game series at its core is really, really simple and takes more time grinding and deciding teams than actual skill to go through the main story. Competitive is a different level all together, but the games aren't made to be difficult at an adult level. It's moderate at a kids level.

That being said, even though the difficulty of the older games is greatly exaggerated, gen 6 was really, really easy. Gen 5 wasn't the hardest game but it did have a couple of moments that are at least a little frusturating. Gen 6 was never any kind of challenge. It wasn't because of the EXP share that literally anybody could turn off at any time. It's because even with it turned off you could still end up at the same level as the freakin champion and have twice as many Pokemon as any gym leader. In theory, the EXP share could have been the answer to easy mode VS. hard mode. They could have jacked up all of your opponents something fierce with extremely high levels and well built teams but if you have the EXP share they are average or downright easy because of leveling. However, if you leave it off then the game would be way harder and you would need more strategically built teams or have to do serious grinding. It could have been an easy way to choose your difficulty along with leaving you with an extremely useful post game tool.

They did not do that. Instead they made it so that the EXP share didn't even matter because you could beat the game with little thought. Every major opponent had less pokemon with you, and it was common that they only had one good pokemon anyways. This isn't a matter of that the old games were harder, it's a matter that gen 6 had extremely poor game design. The new features were great in theory but they didn't design the game around them so it didn't work.
 

Hexin' Wishes

Diva Extraordinaire
Exactly, so why would they even bother limiting team size in the first place? It's completely pointless. Also, we have way too many Pokemon at this point for them to have to stoop to using duplicate species.

You say that like it's stopped them, I fully expect ORAS to present us with dupes in the opposing team...

It's not. In Kanto, there were several split paths in the region that gave you options on where to go. Do I go to Fuchsia City by Rt. 12-15 or Rt. 16-18? Do I go to Cinnibar via Rt. 19 and 20 or Rt. 21? All of the past regions gave you some kind of options throughout the game. Unova and Kalos didn't it was basically "You're finished with this area? Okay, here's the next one". It was basically one straight shot from beginning to end, the game had one set path for you to take and never let you deviate from it.

That changes nothing considering the arbitrary ways those optional routes were blocked. I mean, one of the Fuchsia routes you mentioned was blocked by a Snorlax I mentioned...

Which is a complete load of crap. Reducing team size isn't really going to make a difference in this, and the regions didn't get any shorter by limiting your options.

Oh but it does, it makes the battle time shorter allowing you to do more in-game on a lunch break or commute. Also, if you're arguing linearity, then yes, it made the regions shorter. Less back and forth.

Except the 6th gen Exp Share gives out more Exp than if everyone in your party holds an Exp. Share in 5th gen.

Does that take into account Gen V's unique exp handing out because I think battling higher level pokémon in B2W2 would present roughly the same amount of exp given as Gen VI's exp share (granted those pokémon didn't engage).

Pokémon games have ALWAYS been easy. The older ones were only more "difficult" because options were significantly more restricted than they are now.

YES!

People CAN make the games harder for themselves if they want to. They just mostly want the game made harder FOR them, rather than doing it for themselves.

NO!

People shouldn't HAVE to make a game "harder" for themselves (the Nuzlocke is the dumbest thing I've ever heard). XY was a horrifically weak game bar graphics and the new breeding mechanics (and I'd argue exp. share but that'd be ~controversial~).

In saying that, people who claim Gen VI's exp share made the game "easy" are whining. If you don't realize an experience giving OPTIONAL tool will result in your pokémon being at a higher level than you'd like and you don't turn it off but continue to complain - you're not as smart as you think you are. Plain and simple, "but it was ON when they gave it to me!", yeah and you can easily go to the menu and turn it OFF.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
How easy would all of your complaints be fixed if they just had levels of game play. Like at the start pick beginner. intermediate. hard. and Expert. Why can't they do that!?
This, this right here would make (mostly) everyone happy. It's true, it would be nice. I think four modes might be a bit much though, really just a normal mode and expert or veteran mode would work. I don't want to loose content because we had to have four levels of play programmed in (not that I'm a programmer and know how these things work.

I'd like difficulty mode, mostly just to hear less complaining, because it personally doesn't matter much to me. At the end of the day, AI can only be so intelligent, and I personally prefer battling online with people. The plot in pokemon and the actual play through story is secondary to me, in play pokemon for the breeding, online battles, things like contests and battle frontier, but that's just me.

If I want a challenge, I'll play a nuzlocke or incorporate rules like Red Thunder said. I do agree though, that people shouldn't necessarily have to make the games harder themselves, but people who enjoy doing them should continue too. In love reading peoples comics and nuzlocke advdntures.

I guess we sort of just have to accept what Pokemon is. Its largely a kids game. They are the target audience, they buy the merchandise, toys, clothes... They watch the show. They have to make the plots friendly, the difficulty easy. Even while making something largely targeted at kids, their is still a large adult fan base partly because we grew up on it and partly because it has great battle mechanics and monsters. If we didn't agree with that in at least some small way, we wouldn't be on this forum.
 
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magma grunt edu

casual hardcore fan
Aside from Blue in FRLG, I never had a problem in battling anyone the post-Gameboy era (Gen I & II) so I don't see how Pokémon was "idiotproofed" in Gen V. In fact, I'd argue they've been "idiot proofing" the games since Gen III.

However, with Gen VI, I will agree with you since it was unnecessarily easy*. The "Hard Mode" should relate to AI not levels.


*That's not the fault of the new exp. share though. Just because I would have to swap my pokémon's places so it could gain exp. pre-Gen VI didn't make those games harder, it made them more tedious. I enjoy having them leveled due to the exp.share as it allows me the option to switch positions and not do it because "ok, now I need to get my Seadra to level 56 so *switch*".

exactly, just turn it off. I would like the exp all to return but, like Digitalkaiser65 said, make it post game only. It helps leveling up and i appreciate it (don't care about EVs for the most part).

I seriously don't get what was so bad about voltorb flip. Was it just because you actually had to play the game and couldn't just buy your coins? Voltorb Flip was actually pretty fun for me. It actually had some strategy to it. (unlike the slots and roulette in previous game corners.)

I liked it too, it had luck but it also added some strategy. I would like it to return but definitely not only that game. I would like the slots to return aswell.

Team sizes are the most noteworthy difference in terms of battling, ever since 5th gen they've been putting limits on the number of Pokemon other trainers use, you almost never see any trainer use more than 3 Pokemon, all of the gym leaders use 3 (except for the first two which only use 2), rivals never use more than 4 or 5 (except for post game rematches), and the Elite 4 only uses 4.

But speaking more generally, the region design also became idiotproof in 5th gen as well, all of the regions are rigidly linear, the game always tells you where to go next instead of you having the option to find your own way, there's no more alternate paths and very little backtracking or optional areas.

They're just putting all kinds of unnecessary restrictions on the game design for the purpose of making it "kid friendly", the games never really needed to be easier in the first place.

I was PISSED when i saw all gym leaders pass grant having only 3 pokemon. giovanny had 5, koga had 5, wallace had 6 (i think). I know the AI is a big deal (in fact it's the biggest) but come on with the team sizes. and the E4 had only 4 pokemon, what!? no post game update either, that was the most disappointing. every other gen (besides 5 in the main game) had 5 pokemon. pls kalos, pls.

Gen 5 and 6's region designs were cringe worthy, unova in particular. Kanto, hoenn and sinnoh may have HM and NPC barriers but at least they had options (sinnoh not so much but it had nifty and cool secrets). multiple ways to go in kanto, whole new areas in hoenn, but Unova an kalos had very little exploration (non counting post game)

When I was referring to the difficulty setting, I meant a rise in AI difficulty not just levels.

Anyway, GF claims that XY were just testing the waters so hopefully the future games show that.

My bad :p. I agree, i feel like XY were, like DP, the testing of the new engine. And we all know how much of an upgrade platinum was so i'm hoping for something in a similar fashion.

Pokémon games have ALWAYS been easy. The older ones were only more "difficult" because options were significantly more restricted than they are now. Every generation, people complain that the series just gets easier and easier, but in reality, it's more along the lines of recurring players are getting more experienced as time goes on, are getting more options, more resources, and their personal experiences with the game are becoming easier as a result.

I just finished a playthrough of Sapphire, and just to spice things up, I restricted myself to using mostly Pokémon that I've never leveled before, must stick to a single region's Pokémon, and they must be traded in from another game at level 5. Some might say that trading them in makes the game easier, but it actually didn't. For the first two badges, between levels 10 and 20, my Pokémon mostly didn't listen to me, and it made for some frustrating moments. And, since I never really did any grinding, by the time I reached the Elite Four, I was about 15 levels UNDER Steven's Metagross. I went back and leveled up to 55, grinding for the first time, and even then, Steven had me going for a bit.

People CAN make the games harder for themselves if they want to. They just mostly want the game made harder FOR them, rather than doing it for themselves.

Now that's something i can't agree on. DP and especially Pt were way more challenging than previous gens and then the difficulty dropped again after. i played all gens at various ages (including my current age) and i can safely say even when you know what you're doing, some games are just harder. gen 1 was easy, the routes were filled with low level pokemon ant trainers with lo leveled pokemon (and repeats), i can say only the cycling road felt actually hard. with easy access to great pokemon like OU lapras you could take the E4 just with it (gen 1 lapras with ice beam, psychic, thunderbolt and ice beam is simply broken). Gen 2 had it's challenges (whitney's miltank, morty's gengar, chuck's poliwrath, jasmine and clair's whole teams) and the E4 were more challenging than the 1st time, topping it off with a cheater lance with impossible pokemon. It was moderate in difficulty. Hoenn was harder, with stuff like petalburgh's gym trainers, the evil quake/levitate combo by tate and liza and the E4 were definitely harder than the past with the champion being as challenging as ever. Champion wallace on the other hand was an utter disappointment. with some specific difficult trainers (looking at you cooltrainer wilton) and some great gym battles (brawly, watson, flannery, tate and liza) and with a really hard victory road (even with repels) it upped the difficulty. Then came gen 4 and with it finally some brains for the every day trainer and wild pokemon. pokemon in the beggining had bide, the variety was great (sadly there was not much variety for yourself) and the gyms and champion were trully amazing and some of the best yet. maylene, wake, fantina, gardenia and the best champion to ever be were hard and even when prepared they always either hit fast and hard or spam those status moves. When i say challenging i'm talking about not overleveling my pokes since overleveling=not fun for me. then came gen 5 and difficulty-wise it was not that easy. Definitly not as hard but it still had it's challenges (lenora, clay, drayden), team plasma swarmed more so they became harder to beat in a row, Colress was really hard to beat, and while the champions were kinda pushovers (more adler than iris) the E4 were pretty tough. From marshal's sturdy sawk, speedy and strong mienshao and buff conkeldurr to shauntal's resistant cofagrigus and jellycent as well as it's powerhouse chandelure, it was again at a difficulty of hoenn more or less.
And then gen 6 came. Lower teams, lower AI (except for that premature swords dance corphish from tierno), no sets on the teams, i had only trouble with 1 gym leader (korrina). Diantha was a pushover and besides siebold, the E4 were a joke.

But i have faith for Z or XY2 or whatever they call it to be, as i said b4, like platinum. Way better and with actual post game.

I've heard that the demos are key code only and not like smash bros where you can access it freely in the e-shop. So, as i said b4, i really hope they don't have a demo exclusive megastone stacked in there because i will be really angry if that's the case (ooh, he mad, wut u gunna do bro?). Just like event pokemon i hate stuff that's not accessible to everyone, even if for a limited period of time at least make anyone be able to easly have access to things like event legendaries or exclusive megastones.

(if you happened to read everything i wrote i can only say:thank you for your attention and sorry for the horribly long post)
 
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The Red Thunder

Backwards thinking?
NO!

People shouldn't HAVE to make a game "harder" for themselves (the Nuzlocke is the dumbest thing I've ever heard). XY was a horrifically weak game bar graphics and the new breeding mechanics (and I'd argue exp. share but that'd be ~controversial~).

In saying that, people who claim Gen VI's exp share made the game "easy" are whining. If you don't realize an experience giving OPTIONAL tool will result in your pokémon being at a higher level than you'd like and you don't turn it off but continue to complain - you're not as smart as you think you are. Plain and simple, "but it was ON when they gave it to me!", yeah and you can easily go to the menu and turn it OFF.

I don't mean to start a fight, but why not? The games are made for kids, but an intelligent person is more than capable of making a challenge for themselves. The argument "players shouldn't have to go out of their way to make it harder for themselves" is just an outright pathetic cop out to justify complaining that the games are too easy. The tools are there. Weaker Pokémon exist. Use them. If you choose to use the strongest Pokémon, the best methods for accruing a lot of EXP, and every other means to take the path of least resistance, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the game being too easy. The developers made weaker Pokémon for a reason, and it's your fault for just ignoring them.
 
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