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Hoenn Region Discussion Thread

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magma grunt edu

casual hardcore fan
Trainer's rematches and especially leaders rematches should be a thing. it was one of my favorite things to do and although emerald's rematch system sucked really bad (i was never able to rebattle the leaders) they can make it better now.
 

SurrealistSmeargle

Well-Known Member
Did XY even have a trainer rematch system?
It also has the Battle Chateau, which allows you to battle the Gym Leaders, E4 and the Champion, albeit with the same or reduced teams rather than expanded ones. It doesn't have a 'rematch a deadly team of 6' as previous games have had, but the capacity to battle Gym Leaders mutliple times is there.
 

DotKU

Champion
Only if you count restaurants. They didn't have anything like the ones I mentioned, they stopped using rematch devices in 5th gen.

Okay I was talking about device wise, but I don't really count restaurants that much because they didn't improve after the post game or anything
 

Digitalkaiser65

Dark Master
I'm super pumped to explore the region's post game. I would like the battle frontier to make an appearance, and for it to be just as tropical and beautiful in 3D as it was in platinum.

I realize I have been talking a lot about platinum lately, but that's mostly because I have been replaying it and I noticed how much I like that gen.
 

Fayh

Well-Known Member
As someone who played Red, Blue AND Yellow when they first came out (back to back #yolo), I can honestly say it never felt any more of an adventure than it does now. I enjoy them equally, what I care about is the story line of said adventure. XY's is horrendously basic.

To be fair, RBY did NOT have a better plot than XY.
It has been pretty much unchanged since gen 1. Collect Pokémon to help complete the Pokédex, beat gyms and stop random "evil" team from doing random nonsense.
The games have always been super easy to beat and had no interesting story.
Why would you expect that to change after almost two decades?

Complaining about XY's "basic" story as an old Pokémon fan is like buying Harvest Moon and complaining about the lack of action and blood.
Pokémon games have always had a basic story through every single generation and they will most likely have a basic story for generations to come.

Don't get me wrong, I would be the first person to throw a huge party if Nintendo/GF ever decided to give Pokémon games an actual plot with interesting characters - but I don't expect it.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
To be fair, RBY did NOT have a better plot than XY.
It has been pretty much unchanged since gen 1. Collect Pokémon to help complete the Pokédex, beat gyms and stop random "evil" team from doing random nonsense.
The games have always been super easy to beat and had no interesting story.
Why would you expect that to change after almost two decades?

Complaining about XY's "basic" story as an old Pokémon fan is like buying Harvest Moon and complaining about the lack of action and blood.
Pokémon games have always had a basic story through every single generation and they will most likely have a basic story for generations to come.

Don't get me wrong, I would be the first person to throw a huge party if Nintendo/GF ever decided to give Pokémon games an actual plot with interesting characters - but I don't expect it.

What is BW1 to you then? I wouldn't call that a "basic" story at all. With the exception of XY, the storylines are becoming less and less basic each game.
 
To be fair, RBY did NOT have a better plot than XY.
It has been pretty much unchanged since gen 1. Collect Pokémon to help complete the Pokédex, beat gyms and stop random "evil" team from doing random nonsense.
The games have always been super easy to beat and had no interesting story.
Why would you expect that to change after almost two decades?

Complaining about XY's "basic" story as an old Pokémon fan is like buying Harvest Moon and complaining about the lack of action and blood.
Pokémon games have always had a basic story through every single generation and they will most likely have a basic story for generations to come.

Don't get me wrong, I would be the first person to throw a huge party if Nintendo/GF ever decided to give Pokémon games an actual plot with interesting characters - but I don't expect it.

They were getting kind of close with Black/White. No, Black2/White2 did not have a better story IMO and the fact that Ghetis tried to kill the player and was sooo edgy does not change the fact that Plasma 2 were the most generic villains to date. The problem is that Gamefreak for whatever reason refuses to make the world of Pokemon even slightly harsh. They put all of the problems of the world onto the villains instead of trying to make a somewhat complex problem other than "hurt those evil people that do evil in the good world". Black/White attempted to make a problem that was kind of complex with a lot of angles, but it once again defaulted into it just being a bad guy (that and N didn't quite have the personality to carry the subject matter, though he was close). X/Y's plot didn't work because they wanted to destroy everything evil in the world, and yet in the present day there were absolutely no major conflicts that weren't directly being caused by Flare so their whole goal just seemed foolish.

Then again, I don't care about the story that much. That's just how I feel about why the Pokemon stories that try to be larger tend to not be received well. I don't have high hopes for the story for ORAS; but I've never had any hope for Pokemon games in the past. It's just going to be the Magma/Aqua story with some new bells and whistles and I'm not going to complain.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
Because they are kid games they just have really basic plots. The audience, parents, etc have come to expect a certain story. While its not great, in don't really play for the plot or story, at all. I actually kind of enjoy making fun of the nonsensical stuff.

I will say though, plot wise, I liked gen I best. Not for the story so much as the hundreds and hundreds of interpretations of that story by fans. Its been pulled apart, dissected, looked at, heck we even got a special mini series on the games. There is just so much to look at, plus its the most familar to me as I've played those games the most. Gen 2 will always be a favourite of mine, they were just such great sequels and took Pokemon in an awesome direction with the breeding mechanics, etc.

I wouldn't mind, in the future, meeting a villan who didn't care about destroying anything, but just cared about like collecting Pokemon. Like, they literally want to catch them all so badly they don't just want one of every Pokemon, but actually try and steal every single pokemon alive... Part of the plot would have like, an empty safari zone you have to fix and maybe even the final gym could be missing their team because it got stolen and you have to rescue their Pokemon to get your badge. It would be a poke fan gone horribly wrong. It would be really simple, believable motivation. You could call them the collector or something. I think that's part of the problem with Pokemon plots... They just make them so complicated they become outlandish and laughable. Team Magma and team Aqua had such complicated motivations and reasonings for more land and sea, it just became really ridiculous. Fortunatly, these remakes are making their motivations and plot more reasonable and believeable.

Gen 1 and Gen 2 had bad guys being bad guys more or less. They started to try and change it from there and it got weird. I mean X/Y to me was the worst villans to wrap my head around. They want the world to stay beautiful, so they'll destroy it before it gets ugly?!? Like WAY too complicated... We want a more beautiful world. Do we start a recycling program or destroy everything??? BETTER DESTROY EVERYTHING. They made it seem like a team that was just after money in the previews. That would have been so much more believable. I know they want to tie in the legendaries, but their has to be a better way than that.

But this is all sort of off topic. I'm not really crushed that the plots are weird and dumb. Like I said, I kind of enjoy laughing at them. And I'll enjoy Hoenn because of the slightly ridiculous plot.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Because they are kid games they just have really basic plots. The audience, parents, etc have come to expect a certain story. While its not great, in don't really play for the plot or story, at all. I actually kind of enjoy making fun of the nonsensical stuff.

I will say though, plot wise, I liked gen I best. Not for the story so much as the hundreds and hundreds of interpretations of that story by fans. Its been pulled apart, dissected, looked at, heck we even got a special mini series on the games. There is just so much to look at, plus its the most familar to me as I've played those games the most. Gen 2 will always be a favourite of mine, they were just such great sequels and took Pokemon in an awesome direction with the breeding mechanics, etc.

I wouldn't mind, in the future, meeting a villan who didn't care about destroying anything, but just cared about like collecting Pokemon. Like, they literally want to catch them all so badly they don't just want one of every Pokemon, but actually try and steal every single pokemon alive... Part of the plot would have like, an empty safari zone you have to fix and maybe even the final gym could be missing their team because it got stolen and you have to rescue their Pokemon to get your badge. It would be a poke fan gone horribly wrong. It would be really simple, believable motivation. You could call them the collector or something. I think that's part of the problem with Pokemon plots... They just make them so complicated they become outlandish and laughable. Team Magma and team Aqua had such complicated motivations and reasonings for more land and sea, it just became really ridiculous. Fortunatly, these remakes are making their motivations and plot more reasonable and believeable.

Gen 1 and Gen 2 had bad guys being bad guys more or less. They started to try and change it from there and it got weird. I mean X/Y to me was the worst villans to wrap my head around. They want the world to stay beautiful, so they'll destroy it before it gets ugly?!? Like WAY too complicated... We want a more beautiful world. Do we start a recycling program or destroy everything??? BETTER DESTROY EVERYTHING. They made it seem like a team that was just after money in the previews. That would have been so much more believable. I know they want to tie in the legendaries, but their has to be a better way than that.

But this is all sort of off topic. I'm not really crushed that the plots are weird and dumb. Like I said, I kind of enjoy laughing at them. And I'll enjoy Hoenn because of the slightly ridiculous plot.

Being a kids game doesn't mean it has to have a dumbed down plot. Allow me to introduce you to my friends Adventure Time and My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, which are both popular kids shows which are very happy and welcoming on the surface but the plot gets pretty deep and dark when it needs to (especially during the season premieres and finales). I see no reason why Pokemon can't be like those shows.

I do like your idea, though.
 

magma grunt edu

casual hardcore fan
I'm super pumped to explore the region's post game. I would like the battle frontier to make an appearance, and for it to be just as tropical and beautiful in 3D as it was in platinum.

I realize I have been talking a lot about platinum lately, but that's mostly because I have been replaying it and I noticed how much I like that gen.

I've referred to platinum a lot due to the same reason. gen 4 is still my least favorite despite the absolute best champion but DP hurt my thoughts about the gen back when they were released.

They were getting kind of close with Black/White. No, Black2/White2 did not have a better story IMO and the fact that Ghetis tried to kill the player and was sooo edgy does not change the fact that Plasma 2 were the most generic villains to date. The problem is that Gamefreak for whatever reason refuses to make the world of Pokemon even slightly harsh. They put all of the problems of the world onto the villains instead of trying to make a somewhat complex problem other than "hurt those evil people that do evil in the good world". Black/White attempted to make a problem that was kind of complex with a lot of angles, but it once again defaulted into it just being a bad guy (that and N didn't quite have the personality to carry the subject matter, though he was close). X/Y's plot didn't work because they wanted to destroy everything evil in the world, and yet in the present day there were absolutely no major conflicts that weren't directly being caused by Flare so their whole goal just seemed foolish.

Then again, I don't care about the story that much. That's just how I feel about why the Pokemon stories that try to be larger tend to not be received well. I don't have high hopes for the story for ORAS; but I've never had any hope for Pokemon games in the past. It's just going to be the Magma/Aqua story with some new bells and whistles and I'm not going to complain.

They might be generic villains but dat battle music...my god, neo plasma's battle music is so good! I agree, straight up killing you was a strange development just like the really really creepy holo caster message "hey guys, i just wanted to say that i will kill you all and team flare will survive. bye". like what's the deal with that? I apreciated cyrus as a leader with a really clear purpose and the rest of the grunts are just drones, mindless idiots who did whatever was told even without knowing why. I find riddiculous establishing pokemon that control pime and space and is even the god of pokemon but i liked platinum's cyrus journey. BW was really close but N could be just a zoroark trying to change how humans think so he wasn't enough to carry it on.
I liked when you could decide the story like in gen 1 and 2 but don't mind the crazy ideals of some team boss when i see how riddiculous they are. originally Team magma may have somewhat of a case (the earth being 30% land) but team aqua just wants waterworld to be a thing. it's so stupid.

I will say though, plot wise, I liked gen I best. Not for the story so much as the hundreds and hundreds of interpretations of that story by fans. Its been pulled apart, dissected, looked at, heck we even got a special mini series on the games. There is just so much to look at, plus its the most familar to me as I've played those games the most. Gen 2 will always be a favourite of mine, they were just such great sequels and took Pokemon in an awesome direction with the breeding mechanics, etc.

I wouldn't mind, in the future, meeting a villan who didn't care about destroying anything, but just cared about like collecting Pokemon. Like, they literally want to catch them all so badly they don't just want one of every Pokemon, but actually try and steal every single pokemon alive... Part of the plot would have like, an empty safari zone you have to fix and maybe even the final gym could be missing their team because it got stolen and you have to rescue their Pokemon to get your badge. It would be a poke fan gone horribly wrong. It would be really simple, believable motivation. You could call them the collector or something. I think that's part of the problem with Pokemon plots... They just make them so complicated they become outlandish and laughable. Team Magma and team Aqua had such complicated motivations and reasonings for more land and sea, it just became really ridiculous. Fortunatly, these remakes are making their motivations and plot more reasonable and believeable.

Gen 1 and Gen 2 had bad guys being bad guys more or less. They started to try and change it from there and it got weird. I mean X/Y to me was the worst villans to wrap my head around. They want the world to stay beautiful, so they'll destroy it before it gets ugly?!? Like WAY too complicated... We want a more beautiful world. Do we start a recycling program or destroy everything??? BETTER DESTROY EVERYTHING. They made it seem like a team that was just after money in the previews. That would have been so much more believable. I know they want to tie in the legendaries, but their has to be a better way than that.

But this is all sort of off topic. I'm not really crushed that the plots are weird and dumb. Like I said, I kind of enjoy laughing at them. And I'll enjoy Hoenn because of the slightly ridiculous plot.

It's so ridiculous that team magma wants to commit suicide when they are in mount chimney. What would they think would happen if they blew up the volcano? dumbas5es.

I would like, in the future, that they keep having different locations that make sense. Hoenn was the only region where i see all the enviroments fit. Just look at the unova's route 4 kinda just there for no reason desert, kalos's route 20 green lucious forest next to a town where it always snows, sinnoh's confusing environments mess in the post game island, and others make little sense. I would like us to have more underwater caves to explore too.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
I could hardly call my little pony deep and dark. Like, at all. But that's just my opinion and totally off topic. I can see the charm and appeal of the show, I just don't see the hidden maturity in it. Mind you, I only watch what my five year old sister makes me watch.

And I agree with you, I don't think it has to be dumbed down. I'd like a better plot myself... I just think Nintendo is sort of stuck in a rut when it comes to plots and they are nervous about branching out to much because of back lash. Not a good enough excuse or anything, just what I think. Don't work for them so I don't know. I'm fairly confident we could all come up with some better plots, even using the same region and characters. Like if team flare was just this really greedy team out for money and you have to race lysander to find the key to mega evolution before he can steal it or somthing. But, like I said before as well, the plot is secondary for me. I don't really play for it at all, so while I'd like it to change, I don't care too much if it doesn't change either. I barely remember any of the other plots of any of the games cause they just didn't matter to me. I only remember Gen 1 and 2, cause I was a kid when I played them and it mattered to me then. That was before I fought online or bred for did contests, etc.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I could hardly call my little pony deep and dark. Like, at all. But that's just my opinion and totally off topic. I can see the charm and appeal of the show, I just don't see the hidden maturity in it. Mind you, I only watch what my five year old sister makes me watch.

Are you sure you're watching the premieres/finales? Because there is a huge difference in tone between those and the rest of the season, you can definitely tell the difference.

And I agree with you, I don't think it has to be dumbed down. I'd like a better plot myself... I just think Nintendo is sort of stuck in a rut when it comes to plots and they are nervous about branching out to much because of back lash. Not a good enough excuse or anything, just what I think. Don't work for them so I don't know. I'm fairly confident we could all come up with some better plots, even using the same region and characters. Like if team flare was just this really greedy team out for money and you have to race lysander to find the key to mega evolution before he can steal it or somthing. But, like I said before as well, the plot is secondary for me. I don't really play for it at all, so while I'd like it to change, I don't care too much if it doesn't change either. I barely remember any of the other plots of any of the games cause they just didn't matter to me. I only remember Gen 1 and 2, cause I was a kid when I played them and it mattered to me then. That was before I fought online or bred for did contests, etc.

That might have something to do with the increase in development costs which are causing developers to take less risks nowadays.
 

Hexin' Wishes

Diva Extraordinaire
To be fair, RBY did NOT have a better plot than XY.
It has been pretty much unchanged since gen 1. Collect Pokémon to help complete the Pokédex, beat gyms and stop random "evil" team from doing random nonsense.
The games have always been super easy to beat and had no interesting story.
Why would you expect that to change after almost two decades?

Complaining about XY's "basic" story as an old Pokémon fan is like buying Harvest Moon and complaining about the lack of action and blood.
Pokémon games have always had a basic story through every single generation and they will most likely have a basic story for generations to come.

Don't get me wrong, I would be the first person to throw a huge party if Nintendo/GF ever decided to give Pokémon games an actual plot with interesting characters - but I don't expect it.

"To be fair" RBY were the first damn games in the series and started everything, not the Sixth main game iteration 17 years later. Games are supposed to improve and, like Bolt The Cat pointed out, the subsequent games did (BW had the best storyline of all). XY was a regression to past even the simplicity of RBY.

I'd also argue that the journey in RBY felt far more satisfying than that of XY. Events such as the Pokémon Tower Ghost and even the unfolding of how we took down the villain organization was new and turned the cute little game into its own pulp fiction. XY had absolutely no plot, no exciting side events and was gave us the sixth iteration of "let's take down the bad guys!" except this time the bad guys were just complete morons (which is impressive since they've always been stupid).

While I don't deny that the Pokémon games aren't revered for their plot, after BW, my standards for a Pokémon game's story was raised. If they can't meet it in the subsequent main game (B2W2 was a sequel that allowed us to see the aftermath of the first's events and, tbh, that was more welcome than the standard third version) then that's an issue.
 
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Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
Being a kids game doesn't mean it has to have a dumbed down plot. Allow me to introduce you to my friends Adventure Time and My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, which are both popular kids shows which are very happy and welcoming on the surface but the plot gets pretty deep and dark when it needs to (especially during the season premieres and finales). I see no reason why Pokemon can't be like those shows.

I do like your idea, though.

I know this is offtopic...But at what point was MLP dark i watched it whole after being challenged to watch the girst season. i loved its fluffy and fun yet diverse and dynamic atmosphere(We need more rarity tough). I never saw anything dark on them. Yeh a but of comic mischief here and there, some chaos over there reversed cutie marks and all that but most of them where outrigth fun. I know this is iff topic but despite their great writting no MLP episode was dark in the sligthest...Sone Bronies took them to far like with any show. But nope Im trying to respect your opinion here but i just cant bring myself to see how this sjow is dark. End of my offtopic rant.

I actually loved BW and B2W2 plot centered about public opinion and hypocresy. They planned underground for years, built upon a public image and a made some people doubt of what they where doing with their pokemon. And then after sll that mediatic spectacle they attempted to crown it with a castle coming fown and swallowing the E4 as they where defeating to improve yhe legend of their pawn as a way to make sure no one oppeosed them out of sheer respect. All that while hacking the storage system that statement took me by surprise to be honest.

The B2W2 came by and we get this pirate ninja guys trying totake over the region eith sheer displays of power as shooting a freezing cannon powrred by one of the tao dragons?

It is so over the fence that it is awesome. And whereas i admit Cyrus was the greatest puppeteer Gcis carried out his plans with sheer ruthless ambition in such a way it felt really alluring to follow.

And the XY wich brougth us a 007 villian...Yep i only remember Xerodic being a cheater on the buttons. Thats all.

My 2 cents im on a cellphone so pardon if i make huge mistakes here and there.
 
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Jaxt Welcht

The Knight of Truth
OK, here's a great question, on the new Hoenn map has anyone noticed the large white spot under rt.133(the place where you awaken the Regi's). It may just be a cloud or sun glare, but it looks too perfect a sphere to be a cloud and why would they put sun glare on the map. It seems like they're trying to keep something hidden there so they can announce it later. Now I've been wondering if they planned on including the Battle Frontier because I don't see it on the map, so I suspect it's most likely that. But it could also be an addition to the original story line like with Team Magma's hideout in Emerald or the Sevii Islands in Kanto. Also, if you consider the patch of dark in the top right corner, it could be a reference to light and the other dark, although I wouldn't know how that pertains to the game. Either way there's something suspicious about it.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
OK, here's a great question, on the new Hoenn map has anyone noticed the large white spot under rt.133(the place where you awaken the Regi's). It may just be a cloud or sun glare, but it looks too perfect a sphere to be a cloud and why would they put sun glare on the map. It seems like they're trying to keep something hidden there so they can announce it later. Now I've been wondering if they planned on including the Battle Frontier because I don't see it on the map, so I suspect it's most likely that. But it could also be an addition to the original story line like with Team Magma's hideout in Emerald or the Sevii Islands in Kanto. Also, if you consider the patch of dark in the top right corner, it could be a reference to light and the other dark, although I wouldn't know how that pertains to the game. Either way there's something suspicious about it.
I don't remember where/when this was discussed but there has been some pretty neat theories. Its hiding something, its artistic, etc. Personally, I think its meant to represent Primal Groudon and his harsh sunlight with his new desolate land ability, while the storm clouds are supposed to represent Primal Kyogre and the harsh rain with his new ability primordial sea. It could be hiding something though... Was Mirage island anywhere near there? I don't think so but maybe they moved it.
Does anyone else assume that theblittle ciruclar cloud patch by sootoplois is sky pillar (I think that's what its called) since Rayquaza is supposed to be really important to mega evolution in this game? Maybe its hiding sky pillar AND mirage island. Or where both locations somewhere else?
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
OK, here's a great question, on the new Hoenn map has anyone noticed the large white spot under rt.133(the place where you awaken the Regi's). It may just be a cloud or sun glare, but it looks too perfect a sphere to be a cloud and why would they put sun glare on the map. It seems like they're trying to keep something hidden there so they can announce it later. Now I've been wondering if they planned on including the Battle Frontier because I don't see it on the map, so I suspect it's most likely that. But it could also be an addition to the original story line like with Team Magma's hideout in Emerald or the Sevii Islands in Kanto. Also, if you consider the patch of dark in the top right corner, it could be a reference to light and the other dark, although I wouldn't know how that pertains to the game. Either way there's something suspicious about it.

It's probably Sealed Chamber.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
It's probably Sealed Chamber.

I swear I keep googling and googling and reading up on Hoenn and I STILL miss things. What was sealed chamber again? This is what I get for never getting to play emerald. I'm really not trying to be lazy, but Hoenn has so many secret little locations I can't keep them all straight. Can anybody make some kind of tiny list that says what these little islands where called, what they did and where they were approximately? I'd be very greatful.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
It's probably Sealed Chamber.

Sealed Chamber is further west, is it not? So unless its location was changed slightly...

I swear I keep googling and googling and reading up on Hoenn and I STILL miss things. What was sealed chamber again? This is what I get for never getting to play emerald. I'm really not trying to be lazy, but Hoenn has so many secret little locations I can't keep them all straight. Can anybody make some kind of tiny list that says what these little islands where called, what they did and where they were approximately? I'd be very greatful.

This is the Sealed Chamber.
 

TheDragonKing

King of dragons
I swear I keep googling and googling and reading up on Hoenn and I STILL miss things. What was sealed chamber again? This is what I get for never getting to play emerald. I'm really not trying to be lazy, but Hoenn has so many secret little locations I can't keep them all straight. Can anybody make some kind of tiny list that says what these little islands where called, what they did and where they were approximately? I'd be very greatful.

Let's see, I'll try my best! :D

- Sealed Chamber is how you open up the Regi's caves. You follow the currents on Route 131(iirc) and solve a braille puzzle and you'll ne able to go catch the Regi's.
- Mirage Island is an island that only appears under certain conditions(not sure what they are though). There's not much to it, as it only has a rare berry and wild Wynaut.
- Southern(?) Island is where, through an event, you could catch Mew.
- Don't remember the name of the last one but you could catch Ho-oh and Lugia through an event.

I didn't remember all the details but I hope that's somewhat useful.
 
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