Hoenn Region Discussion Thread

[Haar]

Exactly. We are well past the point where having only a handful of Pokemon per type is remotely acceptable. Platinum actually fixed those problems, ORAS should've followed suit.

Ehhhh. Hah, you got me there. Platinum was more of a continuation (Also added new Pokemon over D&P, including Magmortar which I'm sure Flint was glad to receive) but ORAS, despite being remakes, still added some 'Mons to the dex, but only evos/prevos of the original Hoenn dex. I'm somewhat unsure what sticking as close to the original accomplished but what really gets me is that bringing in more 'Mons from the weather changes could have opened up more possibilities, and they ended up saccing them all, including (the only Ice types I can think off the top of my head that are found in Hoenn after the Primal stuff ends) Dewgong and Delibird, just so Glacia could keep the original Hoenn Ice types.

 

[blob]

Ehhhh. Hah, you got me there. Platinum was more of a continuation (Also added new Pokemon over D&P, including Magmortar which I'm sure Flint was glad to receive) but ORAS, despite being remakes, still added some 'Mons to the dex, but only evos/prevos of the original Hoenn dex. I'm somewhat unsure what sticking as close to the original accomplished but what really gets me is that bringing in more 'Mons from the weather changes could have opened up more possibilities, and they ended up saccing them all, including (the only Ice types I can think off the top of my head that are found in Hoenn after the Primal stuff ends) Dewgong and Delibird, just so Glacia could keep the original Hoenn Ice types.

Only those two? What about the Gen 5 Ice types? Seriously, only Dewgong and Delibird? Not even Cloyster?

That's the problem I have with GameFreak and their "two steps forward, one step back" approach. A Dex with poor distribution and a lack of a certain type is not acceptable after the expansive collections in XY/B2W2. You'd think by now they'd learn that the region (and by extent, the game as a whole) benefits from a large (or at least decent) amount of available Pokemon. Making each region "unique" is no excuse for the distribution in Hoenn, nor is it an excuse to remove features that improve gameplay and/or overall enjoyment (customization, difficulty modes, etc). It really grinds my gears when they introduce an enjoyable feature that receives acclaim from fans, to just remove it without a second thought come the next instalment. It really doesn't make much sense from a gameplay standpoint, or a business standpoint. Why decrease the content in a game just because it's a new platform? Why can I walk with my Pokemon in Johto/Kanto, but am unable to do so in Unova? It can't be against the law, or something? I enjoy Pokemon (and particularly Hoenn) but this just makes my head spin!

Yeah. I get making XY pretty bare bones, as they had to make new models, a new region, new Pokémon, new villains ect... but ORAS has no excuse. All they had to do was convert Hoenn into 3D, yet they still messed it up! First of all they ended up making a lot of the places different and the villains got a makeover that no-one wanted.
Also, making the game bland because no-one spends long periods of time playing games anymore is BS. Isn't it better to make games longer, so people will play them longer? Who wants to spend $40 on a Pokémon game which will be over in less than 25-30 hours? It's like saying "We were too lazy to add anything post-game, because we don't want to deal with it."

B2W2 was the best game for post-game content and I'd spend hours going around doing daily tasks, like looking at the trains and Join Avenue. Without that stuff, the games feel empty, especially Hoenn, as there are so few Pokémon to capture compared to B2W2 and XY. ORAS is a very weak re-make, as it feels more like GF are trying to sell it off as a new Region. It doesn't quite feel like Hoenn, and instead, more like Hoenn 2.0.

 

[BCVM22]

Why can I walk with my Pokemon in Johto/Kanto, but am unable to do so in Unova? It can't be against the law, or something?

Because the overworld sprites for all then-493 Pokémon were used first and foremost for Pokéathlon, secondarily for the following, which also tied in to the Pokéwalker.

Neither of those were the case in Unova. Had they kept the feature, you would have had an entire extra sprite set for no reason besides a frivolity. Not very efficient. By the time we got to Generation VI, it was out of the question because you would have then been adding an additional, constantly-animating model to an overworld that was already causing the 3DS hardware to huff and puff in some spots.

That people continually these decisions are made "without a second thought" and so on - implying that game development is a simple task and features are added and removed at a whim - without giving any consideration to the fact that if anything, it's probably the exact opposite, is far worse than anything you listed.

 

[Haar]

Only those two? What about the Gen 5 Ice types? Seriously, only Dewgong and Delibird? Not even Cloyster?

Having caught every wild Pokemon in Alpha Sapphire(Except one Mirage Island Pokemon), the only Ice-type I noticed I couldn't think of was Cubchoo/Beartic. (I didn't mention Seel either but implied )
Shellder/Cloyster, Lapras, Swinub, Cryogonal, every other non-legendary Ice Pokemon cannot be caught and must be traded/transferred. (Unless I looked over one... I'm checking all this via the AreaNav)

 

[blob]

Because the overworld sprites for all then-493 Pokémon were used first and foremost for Pokéathlon, secondarily for the following, which also tied in to the Pokéwalker.

Neither of those were the case in Unova. Had they kept the feature, you would have had an entire extra sprite set for no reason besides a frivolity. Not very efficient. By the time we got to Generation VI, it was out of the question because you would have then been adding an additional, constantly-animating model to an overworld that was already causing the 3DS hardware to huff and puff in some spots.

The PokéWalker used the menu Sprites. Not the over world ones.

Having caught every wild Pokemon in Alpha Sapphire(Except one Mirage Island Pokemon), the only Ice-type I noticed I couldn't think of was Cubchoo/Beartic. (I didn't mention Seel either but implied )
Shellder/Cloyster, Lapras, Swinub, Cryogonal, every other non-legendary Ice Pokemon cannot be caught and must be traded/transferred. (Unless I looked over one... I'm checking all this via the AreaNav)

So Abomasnowite is in the game for no reason then? At least have Mega Stones for Pokémon ACTUALLY IN THE GAME.

 

[BCVM22]

The PokéWalker used the menu Sprites. Not the over world ones.

That has nothing to do with anything I said.

 

[Haar]

So Abomasnowite is in the game for no reason then? At least have Mega Stones for Pokémon ACTUALLY IN THE GAME.

Well, they did the same with Mewtwo... Both evolution stones are in but the only way to use them is transfer Mewtwo (or in your case, Snover/Abomasnow) from XY.

 

[Akashin]

So Abomasnowite is in the game for no reason then? At least have Mega Stones for Pokémon ACTUALLY IN THE GAME.

Every Mega Stone is in these games. I thought that having access to all of them without needing to trade any Mega Stones over would be reason enough for them to be there, but okay.

 

[Taodragon]

That people continually these decisions are made "without a second thought" and so on - implying that game development is a simple task and features are added and removed at a whim - without giving any consideration to the fact that if anything, it's probably the exact opposite, is far worse than anything you listed.

I partially agree as not everything is feasible in the transition, RS wasn't able to have a visible Day/Night system for that reason for instance. However, not everything is going to be justified by that reasoning, some things are going to be feasible that they do intentionally skip over anyway. This is especially the case since GF did say that they don't keep every feature they introduce in the first place, and that some features they feel are more exclusive to certain regions (ex. customization). A model of which can be a detriment at times considering some of those features are more to the benefit of the games and their content.

So in short, it's not always going to be a case of "we can't do it," it's sometimes going to be a case of them sticking to their personal model.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Ehhhh. Hah, you got me there. Platinum was more of a continuation (Also added new Pokemon over D&P, including Magmortar which I'm sure Flint was glad to receive) but ORAS, despite being remakes, still added some 'Mons to the dex, but only evos/prevos of the original Hoenn dex. I'm somewhat unsure what sticking as close to the original accomplished but what really gets me is that bringing in more 'Mons from the weather changes could have opened up more possibilities, and they ended up saccing them all, including (the only Ice types I can think off the top of my head that are found in Hoenn after the Primal stuff ends) Dewgong and Delibird, just so Glacia could keep the original Hoenn Ice types.

Yeah, I like the post game DexNav Pokemon distribution, those would've made wonderful additions to the Hoenn Dex. As would some of the Pokemon you find in Mirage Spots.

Because the overworld sprites for all then-493 Pokémon were used first and foremost for Pokéathlon, secondarily for the following, which also tied in to the Pokéwalker.

Neither of those were the case in Unova. Had they kept the feature, you would have had an entire extra sprite set for no reason besides a frivolity. Not very efficient.

I don't get what you're saying. Why would they have an extra sprites set? Couldn't they simply delete it?

Also, 5th gen already had overworld sprites for Entree Forest. I don't see why they simply couldn't have used those.

 

[BCVM22]

I don't get what you're saying. Why would they have an extra sprites set? Couldn't they simply delete it?

Come now. Extra in that it would have served no purpose besides being used for following the player. That's somewhat wasteful.

Also, 5th gen already had overworld sprites for Entree Forest. I don't see why they simply couldn't have used those.

First, I don't believe that sprite set included all then-649, and second, if it did, I don't believe those sprites were animated or had motion cycles, which makes a difference.

 

[pokepal123]

I was wondering the same thing tbh. I'd have rather seen her with a Sealeo and only one Glalie or Froslass. Alas, GF works in mysterious ways.

I guess Gamefreak wanted to have the Elite Four pretty much use fully evolved Pokémon that's whyI think that they did it. Drake probably uses Kingdra for that reason only otherwise he most probably would have used Shelgon and two Fygons like in RS.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Come now. Extra in that it would have served no purpose besides being used for following the player. That's somewhat wasteful.

Okay, you think following is pointless, now I get it. At any rate, wastefulness is somewhat subjective, it depends on how much someone values a particular feature. But I'm sure you meant from Game Freak's perspective, and they would probably be open to implement something that can be done with a reasonable amount of effort and would be well received by the fans. And following certainly fits both of those requirements. And if the lack of functionality is really so much of a problem, they could always add some.

Also, I just mentioned Entree Forest, so you'd be wrong about it serving no purpose.

First, I don't believe that sprite set included all then-649

Well yes, BW1 was missing the 5th gen Pokemon and BW2 was missing several Hidden Grotto and Dream Radar Pokemon, but I don't think adding in another 156 to BW1 would've been too unreasonable.

and second, if it did, I don't believe those sprites were animated or had motion cycles, which makes a difference.

They did actually. The sprites could wander around a few spaces much like some NPCs do.

 

[BCVM22]

Okay, you think following is pointless, now I get it.

I didn't say pointless, I said frivolous. Despite connotations, there can be a difference. I liked the feature just fine but I'm not going to sit here and claim the generations that followed were automatically worse for not having it.

But I'm sure you meant from Game Freak's perspective, and they would probably be open to implement something that can be done with a reasonable amount of effort and would be well received by the fans. And following certainly fits both of those requirements.

Except that we've established that the following feature was a perfect storm of being able to share a sprite set with the Pokéathlon and tied in to the Pokéwalker, wherein you could "literally" do like your game character and take your favorite critter for a walk with you. Generation V had no such perfect storm.

Also, I just mentioned Entree Forest, so you'd be wrong about it serving no purpose.

Which didn't add nearly as much to Generation V as the Pokéathlon did to HG/SS. The value isn't quite the same.

 

[MetalFlygon08]

I guess Gamefreak wanted to have the Elite Four pretty much use fully evolved Pokémon that's whyI think that they did it. Drake probably uses Kingdra for that reason only otherwise he most probably would have used Shelgon and two Fygons like in RS.

Heck Eviolite Sealeo would be pretty beast.

 

[Hydrohs]

Heck Eviolite Sealeo would be pretty beast.

I doubt they would have done that, as then you could have easily just gotten a ton of Eviolite by using Thief.

 

[Haar]

I doubt they would have done that, as then you could have easily just gotten a ton of Eviolite by using Thief.

Stealing other Trainer's Pokemon's items are lost upon the end of the battle.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Except that we've established that the following feature was a perfect storm of being able to share a sprite set with the Pokéathlon and tied in to the Pokéwalker, wherein you could "literally" do like your game character and take your favorite critter for a walk with you. Generation V had no such perfect storm.

Which didn't add nearly as much to Generation V as the Pokéathlon did to HG/SS. The value isn't quite the same.

Again, subjective. And in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter. They decided they wanted overworld sprites for Entree Forest. Said sprites could easily translate into following. There's enough for them to work with that implementing it would be reasonable.

 

[BurningWhiteKyurem]

Which didn't add nearly as much to Generation V as the Pokéathlon did to HG/SS. The value isn't quite the same.

Looks like you're going to have to define "value." A decent argument can be made that the Pokeathlon didn't add much "value," and is simply a glorified minigame. Same can be said of the Entree Forest. But at the same time, without the Entree Forest, we wouldn't have Dream World Abilities. Sounds significant to me (perhaps even more so than the Pokeathlon).

 

[Disaster_Lord]

Looks like you're going to have to define "value." A decent argument can be made that the Pokeathlon didn't add much "value," and is simply a glorified minigame. Same can be said of the Entree Forest. But at the same time, without the Entree Forest, we wouldn't have Dream World Abilities. Sounds significant to me (perhaps even more so than the Pokeathlon).

Indeed DW>any mini game since a HA can change the gameplay in so many ways it's just amazing.